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Would You Date a *** ****? (Potential Trigger)

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by Deleted Account, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. pranav02

    pranav02 Fapstronaut

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    It's so nice how you analyze things so beautifully and have answers to almost every conflict here. You, a psychiatrist by any chance or is this just experience lol?
     
  2. Lol well I did study psychology for a few years, with the intention of becoming a Marriage and Family Therpist, but I decided against that route.
     
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  3. Well said
     
  4. pranav02

    pranav02 Fapstronaut

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    Me too. I was gonna study psychology but took science instead cause' you get to make money sooner and don't have to study till 30+ years. I'm equally passionate about both so yeah. What made you change paths?
     
  5. Thank you :)

    I'll PM you, I don't want to derail this thread
     
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  6. If you do a bit of research you will find that most bi girls find it extremely judgemental that man assume they will want a threesome just because they are bi. They mostly want monogamous, faithful relationship and don't want to share their man.
     
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  7. If she decided to drop the whole cam girl thing and find a normal job, maybe.
    But otherwise dating a cam girl would be the last thing I would do.
     
  8. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    I am late to this thread, but I wanted to respond to some of what @CassTeaElle has been saying. Let me begin by saying that I think your posts in this thread show a lot of wisdom. I appreciate your insights and agree with pretty much all of them.

    Since some of your posts focus on the way in which cam girls take advantage of men, I do want to balance out the discussion by considering the perhaps obvious point that men also take advantage of cam girls. As a recovering porn addict myself, I can say that I was drawn to pornographic material by loneliness and by a feeling that I needed to find love/acceptance.
    My greatest weakness was POV porn, which gives the viewer the illusion that he is participating in the sexual relationship himself.
    The "personal" character of this kind of video takes advantage of the same feelings of loneliness that cam sites do. But for me to say that I was the sole victim would be foolish. True, the performers were exploiting the loneliness and the weaknesses of men like me for their financial gain, but equally true is that I was exploiting them by using the appearance of their bodies for my own, selfish gratification. Point being, any time a man and a woman interact in the context of the sex industry, there is a two-way exploitation. Both parties are trying to get something from each other rather than trying to give something to each other--exactly the opposite of how any healthy relationship, sexual or otherwise, should go. In this kind of situation, both people are victims, not just the man.

    To be clear, CassTeaElle, I'm not trying to argue with you here. In fact, I think you'll probably agree with what I've just said; it's pretty consistent with what you've written. Just trying to release some of the emotions this discussion has stirred up, and to ask anyone reading to consider that we can't identify cam girls' actions as morally wrong while allowing the patrons who lust after these girls' bodies to get a free pass.

    As an aside, I used to have an idea that one day I would call a prostitute and ask her if she'd let me just treat her to dinner--no sex. It seems like women who work in all parts of the sex industry get so little genuine respect from men. I wanted so badly to open up to one of these women and give her a chance to make a genuine human connection, which she might really desperately need. I have never followed through with that plan, partly out of cowardice and partly because I never fully convinced myself that it wouldn't be a form of exploitation in and of itself. How are we to deal with the massive problems that the sex industry has wrought? Self-reformation is one thing, and I fully intend to follow through on that. But what more can we do?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  9. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    What troubles me is that we live in a society where you can even suggest believably that a girl might feel she has to sell herself sexually to pay the bills. In my opinion, no good can come out of cam shows or pornography for anyone involved--neither producers nor consumers. The idea that "people gotta do what they gotta do" may be true, but when I hear you say this, I can't help but wish that even a fraction of the money in the sex/porn industry were actually in some giant fund that could be used to help women pay for their med school expenses without becoming cam girls. What a better world that would be!

    Man, it sucks to have ideals in this crazy, f***ed up world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  10. You're correct, I definitely agree with that. I would also consider plenty of cam girls to be victims, themselves, whether it be because they are forced to engage in cam sex or because they have such low self esteem that they are searching for their self worth in the form of lust from men, which is horrible and sad. I definitely don't think all cam girls are just heartless people who want to take advantage of men. Hopefully my comments didn't imply that I feel that way.

    I didn't really think anyone here was doing that. Mentioning that the customers of cam sex are doing something morally wrong as well wasn't really necessary or relevant to the topic of "would you date a cam girl, and why/why not."
     
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  11. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    Fair enough, the relevance existed mostly within my own poor little brain. :emoji_head_bandage:
     
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  12. Plutonium

    Plutonium Fapstronaut

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    I hope after a moment's reflection you will realize the utter folly of holding such a utopian belief - as it is self-contradictory: without women willing to do porn there is no porn industry.

    The second point is that part of your wish is already true: namely "a fraction of the money in the porn industry" is already being used to help women. Namely those women in porn. That's how the whole thing works. Like it or not if you take away the porn industry you also take this money away from these women.

    Women in porn, by their actions, have demonstrated one thing clearly - that in their subjective view doing porn is better for them than the next best available option. This is undeniable. And I always worry about do-gooders who would take away the best available option from others just to make themselves feel better.

    As for the OP - imho it is better to date a model than a glamour girl, better a glamour girl than a camgirl, better a camgirl than a porn star, better a porn star than a prostitute, and better a prostitute than a madam. Performers in the sex industry are not equal.

    I would not do any - nor would I feel happy were my sons to do so. But beyond the role they play in the porn industry they're still girls at the end of the day and hopefully can find someone special.

    [I use camgirl here for a sole performer, and porn star for someone performing with others]
     
  13. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    If you are referring to me here, then you are falsely characterizing my statement and my sentiment. I do not want to take away the best option available to these women--I want a better option to be available to those who would take advantage of it. I always worry about people whose sense of "realism" causes them to adopt a condescending attitude towards those who wish the world were a better place. Do you think that you can magically gaze into my heart and tell me that my motive is selfish? How dare you.

    What I'm saying is that I wish the money were available to these women without them feeling like they have to sell their bodies in order to obtain it. Maybe that's not practical enough to suit you, but it certainly is different from the situation you're describing. Again, I feel you are falsely characterizing what I wrote. But perhaps I could have been a bit clearer.

    This is sort of what I meant when I wrote, "Man, it sucks to have ideals in this crazy, f***ed up world." But I have no intention of abandoning those ideals. Without some concept of how things could be better than they are, nothing would ever improve. Maybe I run the risk of standing out as a fool, but that is better than playing it safe and never making a difference for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  14. Plutonium

    Plutonium Fapstronaut

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    I wasn't. I quoted you on your radically impossible utopian ideal. The rest was digression.

    Wishful thinking gets us exactly nowhere.
     
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  15. wwart1020

    wwart1020 Fapstronaut

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    Let's agree to disagree on this.
     
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  16. Of course, this does not include young men and women who are performing porn because of force, coercion, manipulation, or deceit. "...by their actions"--what exactly do you mean here? Do you believe that a victim of human sex-trafficking actually wants to be in porn just because they said "give it to me!" in the film? Do you think that just because they submit to being brutalized by three individuals simultaneously and appear to enjoy it then that means that "porn is better for them than the next best available option"? I am feeling uncertain that your logic is "undeniable". Perhaps you would care to address this rebuttal?

    You seem to operate under the impression that all women in porn have complete control over the scenes they do and are not unfairly treated, manipulated, deceived, or threatened if they do not comply. Are you "helping" someone by financially reimbursing them for being a victim of abuse? Was slavery okay because slave-owners reimbursed them with food and a place to sleep? "If we took slavery away, then we would also be taking away shelter and food from these slaves!" You are begging the question. The question is not whether porn actors get paid or should get paid, we know the answer to that. The question is whether this arrangement is justifiable considering the effects of the industry as a whole. Reimbursement does not magically justify the act (think back to the slavery example). Also, I am aware that some porn actors/actresses claim that they love their job and such. There are cases like these. But even so, that still does not justify any effects the industry has on society. There are many layers to this issue.

    Nor does pessimism or adaptation to a profoundly sick society. Good day, and I do genuinely wish you success on your recovery. Take care!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  17. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    I don't think he is being pessimistic and is being realistic. Adapting to "the profoundly sick society" to place yourself in position to create change is better than wishful thinking... Like I can have the sentiment I wish for world peace and while that is nice, doesn't really change anything... I can wish the porn industry didn't take advantage of vulnerable women but it doesn't change anything by feeling that way.

    I do think your comparison to slavery is a bit extreme, people in the past were enslaved. You were a slave or you die kinda extreme. That was a time people's freedom and rights was being suppressed and a situation where people were being discriminated and people were not given equal opportunity to succeed. I do think in todays society there are less walls for someone to successfully create a modest living.

    I do think it's good to be a wishful thinker every once in awhile, but you need to be able offer realistic and alternative solutions as well. Or else too much wishful thinking is just someone having a fantasy, enjoying some mental masturbation. It makes you feel better but you aren't accomplishing anything. "Man wouldn't it be so much better if *fill in with some nice thoughts*" but take no action towards it. That also perpetuates the continuation of the present problem. They'll just think about how it'd be nice if it changed, but don't do anything to change it.

    Like your example of how the porn industry is bad, just like slavery, but give no helpful ideas how to solve the issue. no shit I imagine most people on this forum understand porn is bad for society without your insight.

    Sorry I'm just triggered because you made is seem like a bad thing when someone gave the hard truth that wishful thinking alone doesn't accomplish anything. It's true, why are you bashing him for being honest.

    I don't know of its true or not, but hey maybe you are right, this society is profoundly sick. Seriously who the fuck are you. You act like you are better than the rest of society, please get off your high horse, you're on nofap like the rest of us.
     
  18. Thank you for your reply. Now to address your questions and concerns:

    You are right, our feelings alone do not cause change. However, keep in mind that the changes that we do make, both as individuals and a collective society, are inspired by our attitude and feelings on a matter. If our feelings towards slavery were that it is okay, then why would be moved to change it?

    I did not use slavery as a similar comparison, but as an analogous tool to illustrate that financial reimbursement does not justify an action. It does not matter whether it is slavery, porn, or paying someone to kill another human being.

    I agree, it is good to be a "wishful thinker" at times too. How can we bring about positive change if positive ideas never existed to begin with? In my original post, I did not claim that I had the answers or solutions, nor was this the purpose of my response. I was addressing claims another individual had made. Perhaps we can discuss possible solutions once we have established what our attitudes, values, and beliefs regarding an issue are first?

    I did not mean to trigger you @Toomuchh, but if you read my original post, you will notice that the majority of my response was rebutting his "undeniable" conclusions about the porn industry, not his claim that wishful thinking accomplishes nothing. Perhaps I was a bit harsh when I addressed that in the last sentence of my post. However, I never claimed that he was pessimistic, I was addressing his line of thought that "wishful thinking gets us nowhere". What is the alternative to wishful thinking? Claiming it to be action is not congruent with the logic--wishful thinking occurs on the level of the mind, and action occurs on the level of the body. How can you compare them?

    I am who I am. I did not mean to put anyone down. I like to engage in healthy debate and am willing to change my perspective when a valid argument is made. I hope you find peace and success in your recovery. We are all here to support each other. I am okay with your judgments, but just as a thought, most individuals will find more insight if they seek to understand someone instead of judge them.

    I wish you the best in your recovery my friend, and I hope I addressed any questions you had.

    Take care,
    bs
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  19. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    Fair enough, I respect you didn't get offended. I do agree that your response to rebut his "undeniable" conclusions were valid, I just misinterpreted your closing statements. I mean I know you didn't specifically claim he was being pessimistic, but the delivery implied that. I understand now that you were trying to say, there are worse things to be, like being pessimistic. But you gave out an oddly specific response delivered right after you clearly stated what you thought of his opinions. So forgive me if I misunderstood. I would also want to know why you think being adaptive to society is bad, and what you mean society is profoundly sick. That was honestly the thing I found the most offensive. To me that sentence discredited all those people working hard each day, grinding and making the best of a bad situation just to survive. But I think from reading your reply that you aren't somebody like that and I probably misunderstood and don't understand what you are saying.
     
  20. I was listening to The Liturgist podcast and there was a story of something like that happening. This guy who was a Christian worship leader was in Thailand for an evangelical conference and he ended up getting to know this prostitute. You can listen to the story here. The story starts at 11:45 and is about 15 minutes long. It's quite a remarkable story.
     
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