friends don't care?

Shit, man, if you thought you'd get support in society at large, you're smoking some pretty strong stuff. In all sincerity, though, yes, I have experienced that this is society's perception on pornography and masturbation at large. It's culturally accepted, just like sex outside of marriage and homosexuality - take that however you will. Whatever you believe on those topics, it's a moot point to argue.

You have to pick your battles. Don't expect to try to change peoples' deeply ingrained perspectives - most people aren't malleable enough to change except over a long period of time and through some life-altering experiences.

 

I strongly with Weiland People just don't get it! Its useless to Ponder about how other people react to what you say about your Challenge or your stuff. Just keep Going Buddy!

 

That sounds pretty typical. You can't expect friends to be with you on everything. But, hey, as long as they're not sabotaging your progress, just enjoy their company and the support they give you in other ways. Live and let live.

 

Never have and probably never will. They will never understand.
Besides, its a matter/ issue between myself and me and my partner. My friends doesn't need to know anything.

I just say that I dont watch porn. They question but accept it.
But NEVER expect any friends (especially male ones) to go to for support etc.

Females, yea, if you trust them. But if you wanna be on the "safe" side just keep it to yourself and your partner. Partners are made for talking about this, they will try to understand, be talkable and someone to rely on and get support from. Besides, they're not supposed to say anything about this to any of their friends because its a intimate matter between the two of you. Not all your friends.

 

I'm probably going to share this with a female friend (not a romantic one) who found out about my horrendous habit and told me to go to counseling. I had no idea where to start with that suggestion. But I think that she will be happy for me that I'm trying this.

 

Counseling is pretty useless unless you have someone who can advise and encourage from the point of view of an addict. Most of the shrinks out there won't really know how to combat it. This is a very personal issue and it requires inter-personal dialogue between men who are also fighting in the same war.

 

Gosh, I think you guys are just approaching this wrong and then taking the rejection as an issue with society. If you just throw it out there that you're abstaining from PMO (something acceptable and CAN be healthy, though maybe never for us), you're making it sound like you think there's something wrong with PMO itself. The reality is that the issue is with US - not PMO. This is the same way that there is nothing inherently wrong with prescription drugs, but the way that addicts relate to them is unhealthy. You should not be trying to convince your friends that PMO is wrong, you should be trying to get them to understand that you have personal problem controlling yourself with PMO.


If you're looking for support, explain that YOU are addicted, YOU have an unhealthy habit, YOU have gotten a warped perspective from doing this too much and that YOU are dealing with it. And it's difficult. And you would appreciate the support. If you have a mature, open relationship with your friends, I think you will find some solace there.


Finally, I'd say that starting any statement with "Counseling is pretty useless" is dangerous. Any addiction counselor can help, some may help better than others. If you're open to seeking help, do so.

 

I'm curious, PrivateSDGuy. Why do you think that PMO is acceptable and potentially healthy? What is your perspective on what PMO is? Do you believe that there's nothing actually wrong with PMO - that is, with pornography, with sexual gratification separated from a partner, and with the PMO cycle as a whole?

 

I look at PMO like alcohol. Some people can use it in moderation and not have a problem. Alcoholics however cant moderate themselves and become self destructive. I don't think porn is inherently evil. I do think that most porn however degrades woman and doesn't show true intimacy between adults. Go on youtube and search "why I quit porn". There is a very good ted talk speaker on the subject. I cant use porn without suffering negative consequences which is why I am committed to quit.

 

I understand what you are saying. Let me add a bit to your perspective. There are sections on this website for the brain, for relationships, and for impact on society, but read the top article on this link. I'd rather not tell you that you're wrong as much as give you an additional perspective on it. After that, you can judge for yourself.

 

Seriously, people, what's the fuss about?

It obviously is one's personal choice if he or she watches porn or not. I'm not even putting masturbation into the equation here, because MO is entirely one's business, unlike watching porn that does indeed directly support the industry and create further demand which fuels mechanisms that one would probably be shameful to learn about if he left his mental comfort zone for a second or two.

IMHO, not watching nor supporting pornography in any way is primarily an aesthetic choice - how you perceive female body and want it to be perceived. Whether it's just a bottomless pit of sexual stimulation or a medium of more spiritual values that deserves respect and "special treatment". OF COURSE women are not and never have been uniform in their own preferences, and so there are those who sell their body for a few pennies, as well as those who treat it as the "temple of God". It is up to you to decide which type you want to interact with and thus support directly or indirectly. Just please, don't buy the "social tolerance" bullshit - you are fully entitled to despise what you perceive as disgusting and speak about it openly. Political correctness is a fucking joke and a true mental poison of our times.

--Whoops, sorry, I might have gone too far here.

So, my short message is: be thoughtful in your choices and decisive in their enforcement. Just don't advocate for those porn banning acts and stuff, these will obviously trigger the forbidden fruit mechanism.

Funny, I thought it was the old type of "citizenship" that was imposing religion-induced moral standards on individuals, and these so called "modern societies" of ours should primarily protect individual freedom.

 

Pornography is a health issue and a social issue, not just a personal one. I wouldn't want to ban anything for moral reasons because I don't think that it's our business to tell someone how to live their life, regardless of any moral absolutes I believe in. I would, however, advocate stronger awareness of pornography and its intricate attachment to prostitution and human trafficking, and if it is determined that there is sufficient grounds to indicate porn is, indeed, a contributing factor to prostitution and the like, then there may be grounds on a legal basis to ban it. Cross that bridge when we come to it, though.

The OP's post was merely about running into opposition during his NoFap expedition, but the idea that evolved here is a question of whether or not PMO, and porn in general, is good, bad, or amoral. I personally think there's a strong argument for it being very bad.

 

I personally think there's a strong argument for just giving up the old silly good/bad categorization. Also, pornography is no more a health issue than alcohol, smoking or sleeping pills. Health is a good that is disposed by the possessor, just like money. Each person has his own measure of health that he can spend on whatever in the world he wants, and it's none of your or your government's business.

As for attachment to prostitution and human trafficking - maybe you all should burn your damn iPhones, because there's an intricate attachment of Apple to labor abuses in China.

And yes, awareness on porn must be raised, but this is OUR duty, not the government's. So, coming back to the original topic: the OP should've just made his stance clear to those who didn't seem to understand him, obviously respecting their personal choices. Conformism is going to bring down hell on this planet one day.

And yeah Dylan, I have a friend who claims it's "natural" to jerk off. You know what I tell him? "If humanity followed only what's natural, we'd still be jumping trees. In fact, with all the <social progress> and <modern technologies> on the way we seem to be getting dangerously close to those old habits of ours"

 

I see you have disregarded my point. And from your comments, I believe "Porn is amoral" would fit. I have put out several pieces of information in this forum regarding the destructive nature of pornography, as well as its ties to men, sex crimes, slavery, and prostitution, and in a much more direct way than your example. However, I doubt you're interested in hearing about that. You've seemed to made up your mind about the subject.

Plus, I won't digress from the OP any further.

 

Ekhangel, you appear to be the first in this thread to turn the topic to government and laws. You do know that it is entirely possible to discuss the health and morality of an issue independently of legal matters? Social responsibility means making good choices, out of the free choices we do, in fact, have. So cool it. You're painting yourself into a corner trying to define as amoral whatever you want to retain as a private choice. It's confused thinking.

 

e5s, since when social responsibility means making "good" choices? I thought social responsibility was the necessity of putting collective interests before your own.

Generally speaking: I do tend to shift to politics often, because those moral/immoral discussions are mostly complete bullshit, since different people obviously have different criteria of morality that stem out from different environments they originate from; but it is politics that concerns us all as various citizens of the same state(s).

It sure is possible to chit-chat on health and morality of watching pixel boobs, but this we have been talking about dozens of times already. I believe my political (or "social", as you please) approach taken here touches the OP's concern more closely since it relates to human interactions, not their individual actions and the effects of such.

Weiland - fine then, EOT.

 

To address that confusion directly, the language gap might be limiting here, but if you didn't spend a fair chunk of your childhood developing a nuanced understanding of Enlightened Self Interest (wiki is a stub, but it has references), then your first educators (i.e. your PARENTS) failed you.

Also, if a conversation strikes you as so much "futile chit-chat" and "bullshit", you do have options other than jumping in to change the subject. Just sayin'.

 

e5s, the conversation was primarily about how nofappers should relate to lack of understanding from the general public. It was Weiland who developed my one-sentence digression into an offtop. What I perceive as futile chit-chat is NOT the issue of human interactions, but discussing whether porn is "good" or "bad", pathetically trying to apply absolutist moral qualifiers into the issue.

 

You're being very rude and arrogant, Ekhangel. Also, it's rather poor form to insult me because I applied, as you put it, an "absolutist moral qualifier" to pornography. The biggest problems I've found in society are moral relativism. I don't care where you get your perspective on life or your personal standards from, frankly, and if you want to denigrate other people who hold a "moral" viewpoint that's on one end of the spectrum, that's your business. However, what I won't accept is the snotty attitude, the disrespect, and the insulting behavior.

If you want to have a civil discourse, that's fine. If you want to explain and discuss your opinion, great - we welcome that here. Being subtly offensive and insulting with every single remark you make, however, is not fine, and if you keep escalating your behavior like that, you won't be around very long.