I may have just ruined my marriage

I did something similar to this as well and it was the moment where things started to change. I took my wedding rings off (married 13.5 years) and gave them to him and said you broke these vows, this doesn't mean what I thought it meant, etc. He LOST it in a really emotional way, not angry, but it woke him up. But like loud sobbing, breaking down, I have never seen him like that, ever. That is the moment I can pinpoint when things started to change for the better. It changed him and started him on a different path. I didn't do it for that reason, but that was the result.
After that, we decided he would keep the wedding ring until I asked for it back when I felt like it was at that point. That was almost 7 months ago and I'm still not ready to have it back yet. He wears it on his pinky. It is a reminder to him every day as well. Things are going as well as possible given the situation, but I don't know when I will want it back, if ever. Honestly, I think that marriage is dead and I'd want a new wedding band. I don't want anything fancy, just a different one that isn't "tainted". My original one was just a cheap, small, white gold band and that is fine, that would be fine again, just not THAT one. I don't know if that makes any sense but it just... it represents a broken marriage, broken vows to me.
Anyway, sorry, I guess that went down a tangent a little bit, but I just wanted to say, a moment like that was what it took for him to jolt out of his fog and get he was about to lose EVERYTHING if he couldn't get it together. I was done.

 

I totally get that. Sometimes it's a trigger for me to wear it. Mostly because of him PMOing the night he asked my father for permission. Many times I have thought about asking him to propose to me again with a different ring, when all of this is better. The other option would be to just ditch the engagement ring idea altogether and get married without one, having the actual wedding band as my only ring. After all, no one said it was mandatory to have an engagement ring. LOL

Sounds like a very deep insecurity on his part. He doesn't want to feel like he hurt you, so he is avoiding it, pushing it away, lying to himself. Don't let him make you feel like that. You are strong, and you can choose to be free of this burden he has placed on you. Not necessarily by leaving, but really making it known that you are done with the lies and done with playing games.

 

The 4 years between DDays.

 

Thank you, there was a lot of other stressors going on for us during the 4 years as well (to much to put down on a quick reply) and I was focused on the physical infidelity part of it (the first DDay).

 

@Loveless
I do know, I certainly had my share of not proud moments. Those 4 years were war torn for me. I could see some changes but not enough. The some changes gave me hope but I was very angry, hurt and resentful for myself and him.
We had many blowouts and we both almost walked a few times but something was still alive in us and that was the real love we both still had and the foundation commitments we made years ago before all of this.
We have been together for 18 years, traveled the world together and had so many adventures together. I still felt there was some love life left in us and him too.
When DDay #2 came around I believe we both knew that if it wasn’t handled the right way this time that was it for us, I felt it and I think he saw it too.
He is not the PA monster he was, we speak of that time like it was another person because we both feel the same way about it. It’s definitely complicated.
I have very hard clear boundaries at this point. I told him if he makes a mistake with someone else again there isn’t a discussion on understanding why. That’s it I’m done, I’m not looking back and we won’t befriends even. He asked me why, I asked him why would I? After all this hurt, it’s not a “Mistake” anymore, it’s not a miss understanding or confusion, you know what your doing.

Anyway I feel like I’m rambling, in the end it was his genuine commitment to himself that made the difference for both of us to heal. My anger and resentment has subsided at this point. I needed him to make these changes and want to do it for me to start letting go of all negatives. He needed to honestly prove himself and has been.
I told him I would do the hardest thing I could and make a leap of faith in trusting him after the worst of came to light and started to be honest with me. I also told him what would happen if he broke it again. So far so good for both of us.

I’m sad that we went through all of this to get to this point in our relationship, but now that we are here now we are both better people.

It’s struggle, some people don’t think the struggle is worth it and others do, sometimes the struggle is too long, There isn’t right or wrong answer as it’s just to personal for the individuals.

My heart goes out to you, I do understand what you are feeling. I now find myself more hurt by his actions but I don’t see the same person anymore so I don’t loathe him but it still hurts, I don’t think that ever truly goes away. It’s how we handle the hurt.
In the mess of I always told him, I won’t apologize for how I feel but I will apologize for how I handle it.

 

Can I just jump back in time on this thread because something jumped out at me and I did not have time to mention it. First of all I want to reiterate what everyone else has said ...

@WantsToBelieve has been helping me with this issue in a thread I started. It is tempting to think in black-and-white about these things, breaking your word is bad. But no real world problem is like that, especially deep relationship problems. There's always so many competing complex ways forward. Were your actions trustworthy? No. Were they helpful? Yes. Were they honest to yourself? Yes. Were they what he needed? Yes. Were they kind? Yes. Life is a balance, you chose the right course. As @WantsToBelieve said

I can only echo @NF4L on this one - no! That would be totally insane. Sure, if we were just recreational porn users the occasional pick-me-up would be fine but it is obvious to you and to anyone reading your posts that like most of us here (including me) he is an addict. This idea is just bonkers.

But this is the bit that jumped out at me

When this thread started I couldn't really understand your husband's need to cling to his collection, though it is a need he shares with many addicts here. It would be easy to go out and find that porn again, even some better porn! I didn't keep an offline collection, but I did use porn Pinterest rip-offs to collect and categorise my favourite photo-sets and videos. However, I never spent much time viewing, tending, or curating my collections. For me the pleasure was always in finding something new (even when, as often happened, the amazing new picture turned out to be something I'd already pinned.) But your husband is a collector, and so for him I think the curation of his porn collection was really important. I think that makes your action all the more powerful. But it also gives him an opportunity. There are many reasons I am grateful to my wife for giving me her ultimatum — me or porn — one of them is the opportunity this struggle has given me to learn about myself. I have learnt more about myself in the last 483 days than in many years before because to give up porn I have had to reflect deeply on my own needs, desires, and motivations and others here have helped me do that. If your husband really tries to honestly and deeply reflect on what he lost when you destroyed his collection I think he will get a valuable insight into his own psyche.

 

Giving up downloading porn to only stream porn Is. Not. Giving. Up. Porn. AT. ALL.

I had/have an online porn addiction for 20+ years .... and never downloaded it.

 

@Loveless

I was afraid to trust for those four years too. I delt with all those things that come with Betrayal Trauma. It was incredibly difficult to trust him in any area that came to other women and even at times that he loved me.

During the affair recovery I asked him to give up porn, I asked for 3 months, his defensiveness was bad and it started to turn into a fight. I was angry at him that he wouldn’t even consider it. I pushed hard. He even told me that it was an “unfair” and “unreasonable” to ask of him.
Some how we got it to 1 month no porn, and I had to agree to give up Starbucks.
During that time he had to go in a business trip and asked if pictures were ok. I said no.

I was hoping he would see and appreciate the positive difference in our relationship with ou it. He did for a short time but the whole month he was planning on going back to it and did, the very next morning after the 30 days. He only did it to “prove he didn’t have a problem”, it certainly proved he did to me. Even though our sex life was amazing during that time it wasn’t enough.

I was validated in what I feel about it all and so are you. Your feelings are real and reasonable. There were times when it was incredibly difficult to hold myself to my own standards too especially when feeling angry and resentful. I had dark revenge thoughts that I’m thankful I never acted on, I ran on a treadmill for an hour a day just to get the anger out, I started a sewing class, I made a point of seeing my friends and getting out and away from the house and him, I had many conversations with my mother and I would write any negative, revengeful venting thoughts and feelings down to get out. I didn’t deny or suppress any of it, I let myself feel it but I worked on doing my best on how I expressed and handled it with him and I wasn’t perfect, how could I be.

I had spent to many years trying to change how his behaviors left me feeling and I wasn’t going to do that to myself anymore, I am as guilty of gaslighting myself just as much as he was.

I found the most important boundaries are the personal ones. I made promises/commitments to myself on how I would handle things. I voiced those to him and his first response was asking if I was making threats. “No, I’m communicating to you the promises I have made to me, my personal boundaries. These are not unreasonable and they are mine. You know what will happen if XYZ happens, it will not be viewed as another mistake. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The only thing I can control is me, if you choose to XYZ this is how I will feel and react. The ball is in your hands, you can run with it or drop it, that choice is yours”.

As far as Porn, I ended up hating it, I was loosing the ability to understand and deal with it. I caught him one morning and was instantly pissed. He was trying to make it up to me but it wasn’t working. I told him if I had it my way it wouldn’t be on our lives at all, I began to believe if I told him me or porn he would choose porn (that may have been true at some points). About a week later I found his special collection and the became the line and I believe he knew it. That’s when the change happened for us both. It wasn’t easy the first week but we got through it.

These are not easy waters to navigate through, it’s a different journey for everyone. My only real advice to not compromise you, be true to you and you will always have it.

 

Not just opening up his floodgates, but also normalizing the behavior for you.
Part of my journey with my husband: He was avoiding sex with me, and I realized he wasn't able to maintain an erection. So I did a lot of tiptoeing around it, not wanting to pressure him more. I knew he used porn, I just didn't know how much, and I certainly didn't know anything about PIED (this was about 6 years ago). So we didn't have sex at all for about a year. I did PMO myself as a substitute, but never became addicted. One day, after about 9-10 months without sex, it just hit me how effed up it was that I acquired his habit. He was defining my sexual behavior in a way I did not want, and did not find fulfilling. I didn't know at the time that he had an addiction, and it influenced me in that way. I'm still catching up with this thread, so this may already been addressed. In the AA rooms, it's called cosigning his BS.

 

@Loveless, it is a tough choice you are going to have to make:
[#1] accept that your husband will look at porn

[#2] appeal to him that you want a porn-free marriage .. if he refuses, either see #1 or leave him (sorry to be so blunt)
..

We have a good friend (actually the maid of honor from our wedding 21 years ago!) -- and this good friend just accepts that her husband will look at porn. They seem happily married / have a couple kids / etc. So #1 is technically a choice---my guess is millions of wives across the world accept it. But that is a decision that every wife / every couple has to grapple with.

 

I am glad to hear that I can help some with my personal experience and views.
I do want restate so there isn’t a miss understanding with the don’t compromise yourself, it is your personal standards, integrity and self respect. There are times to draw a hard line for yourself with personal boundaries but it’s up to you and him with the compromises you both make with in your marriage.
I won’t compromise with cheating and I won’t compromise on lack of honesty and transparency with the porn. I can understand if he finds another woman attractive but it’s how he were to handle the attraction that’s makes or breaks it. I can forgive him if he were to have a relapse but I need the honesty and transparency with it.