When to kiss a girl?

If you like, whilst holding her hand, you can kiss her hand. But honestly, if you really want to kiss her, then do it. Personally, I'd do it if you two were watching a movie together or if you were walking her home.

I don't know if asking her will be well received, though. But you can if you like. The point is to show her you want to be hers.

Your plan seems well thought out to me. Good luck.

 

hehe, just wrote all my best stuff in @Spitfirewho 's thread.
1. close the distance
2. check if she's interested in kissing, playing with her hair is good for this, checking if she's looking at your lips, whether her hips are oriented to you - read her body language!
3. ask. Consent is sexy.
4. keep closing the distance, but when you're finally going for it, go 70, she goes 30.

 

This is an important experience for you to have. You'll be thankful for it someday despite it not being an outcome you wanted.

Because you've met someone you admired and cared about, other women won't mess with your head as much anymore. On the other hand, you're now free to explore more and you'll eventually see that there are plenty of amazing women out there. You can't replace someone, but you can definitely meet other people who are as amazing or more amazing in a different way. Being obsessed with one person and living in fear of a desired outcome not happening causes your world to become very small. One day you'll learn to follow your desires fully and allow whatever outcome to happen as it should. You flow rather than try to force anything. You allow plenty of opportunities to come and open you up to a bigger world. You become more certain with yourself despite life and other people being uncertain.

You can't experience higher quality pleasures, solutions, and positive experiences without pain, problems, and negative experiences.

It's most likely hard for you to think how you can ever live a good life without her, but it can become more than you've ever expected. One day you'll find your better place, with better people, as a better version of yourself.

I've been where you are and I wouldn't change that pain, problem, and negative experience for anything. It's what made me into a person I'm proud of and this is what will make you a better person. You'll look back one day and be thankful because you wouldn't have changed for the better if things worked out back then.

 

You're welcome. I'm sure you've learned a lot of things throughout this experience with this girl. Even though you haven't practiced it all that much yet, you have the knowledge.

It's easy to be selfish and think "she should be with me" or "this isn't how it's supposed to be", but she's just trying to find her way in the world just like all of us. Hopefully one day you'll be living a better life and you can look her up and see that shes also living the life she wants. There's no need to feel scarcity. That leads to anger, hate, jealousy, and resentment. Open yourself up to more people and opportunities in life and one day you'll see that there's enough abundance for everyone and you don't need to force outcomes to happen. You just want others to be happy the same way that you're looking for happiness even if that means being apart from you.

 

Hey buddy. Sorry for what you are going through. I used to love my girlfriend and then she told me she didn't want to continue it anymore. I know how it feels. But it does get better, the emotions are strong af right now but they will fade.

Just think, your future wife right now is waiting for you. You don't have to suppress your emotions. It's okay to be sad. But eventually you will get over it. For now, just relax and calm yourself down till you are ready to go back to searching. Before you know it you'll feel that way again about a different girl, who feels just as special to you. And you can't let an opportunity like that pass up because the last one didn't go so well.

Good luck bud.

 

You care too much about what women think ->
Your fear makes you unattractive to women ->
You lack experience and options ->
You become lonely and desperate ->
You fall for someone and become very needy ->
You think she's special so you become very careful and hide who you really are ->
You don't think you're good enough so you try to perform / compensate / convince ->
You care too much about what women think (the cycle starts over again).

Typical thoughts of desperate and needy men =
I can't find anyone better.
We have a special connection.
I did something wrong to cause the bad behavior.
I wasn't patient or understanding enough.
I'm not good enough for her.
My life will never be the same without her.
I don't know when the next woman will come along.
You don't give up when you really love someone.
I still care about her and that must mean something.
If this doesn't work I'll be alone again.
I'll find a reason to give it another chance by making excuses for her bad behavior.

You mentioned that she was your crush for years before finally going on a date. She moved away (2.5 hours drive) and yet you still went out of your way to make this work. You were clearly in fear and worry whenever you spoke about her in this forum. Whenever things went well you were beyond happy. When things didn't go well (her being shy and distant / texting) you were depressed. So you double down your effort and worry to make things good again. You doubled your investment to chase your losses like a gambling addict. So it was an uneven investment between you two. It was obsessive. Your love at this point of your life is basically an extreme form of neediness. People can sense that. When you make them the center of your world. When they're the only thing that's going on in your life.

You need someone else to make your life interesting and fulfilled too much. You're addicted to the feeling of being needy towards someone. You make them into your personal project. You crave the ups and downs. The chasing of losses. The doubling down of obsessive investment. The highs and lows. You held on to the fantasy for so long by having a crush on her for years before making a move and trying to make a long distance relationship work with someone who was pretty much unavailable and unresponsive. You didn't want to find out the outcome and face reality for so long until she finally did it for you.

Not interested in the 90% of the women that's potentially interested in you + worried / fearful / desperate / needy towards the 10% of the women that you're interested in = Your standards are too high and when somebody does meet your standards you believe you're not good enough. So this is basically why you're alone. You only go for women that you place on a pedestal. That isn't romantic nor is it love. It's obsessive neediness and an inability to see people for who they really are.

Ultimately you'll have to find your own way. Maybe all this will give you something to ponder about.

When somebody places you on a pedestal and sees you for someone that is more than just a flawed human with issues, they become your obsessive fan and treat you like a celebrity. They do anything and everything for you. Now the scary thing about the having a fan is if things don't go their way with you (after doing anything and everything for you) they get emotionally crazy.

A relationship shouldn't be 2 half circles that can't function on their own without being together to form a full circle. It should be 2 full circles that overlap in the middle, they can function on their own, and they create a great life together where they overlap. How do you know what's good and bad for you without even knowing who you are? Without even creating a full circle for yourself first? Without more experiences with other women, how do you know this woman was even someone you really wanted to be with? I look back at my past love interests and I'm glad that things didn't work out with them because I've met so much better people later on when I had more experience and knew myself better.

At the moment, even if you got what you wanted with any woman, you still wouldn't be really happy. You'll go through the same highs and lows like you did with this one. You'll still be living in constant worry and fear. So I say that this is a good thing that this happened for you.

 

Good for you.

It's natural to be scared of the uncertain. Everything in life is uncertain. So we try to control things to negate that fear. You have to change your relationship with uncertainty. The problem is when we compared how it's supposed to be with how it really is. We create this ideal fantasy of how it's supposed to be based on limited experiences and pretty much what we learn from mainstream media. So we really have no clue how it's supposed to be nor do we know what's really good for us at a young age. So the best thing you can do is explore and welcome uncertainty. You follow your desires fully and find out for real how it really is. Does this person really like the real me? How far can I go if I actually try? What kind of people can I get to meet? What type of person do I really like? Who am I when faced with difficult situations? You only ever find these things out when you actually live your life in reality rather than trying to control the outcome to fit your flawed ideal of how it's supposed to be.

You flow with life while expressing yourself authentically and allowing the outcome happen however it happens. You can't control other people and external things. So don't waste time trying to manipulate or deceive. You want to express yourself honestly and align yourself with other people and opportunities that resonate with that. Not everything works out in life, but you have to try.

Spoiler alert = There's more than just one special person. Reality is rough, but can also be a lot better than a fantasy. A lot of things don't work out, but some of it does and you learn to appreciate those so much more. You don't know what's really good or bad for you until later down the road and you look back on it.

One day you'll learn to validate yourself so that you can simply love others without needing anything from them. It's their choice if they want to be a part of your life. Just as it's your choice if you want to be a part of someone else's life. Self respect is gained when you go through difficult situations. When you handle higher quality pain, problems, and negative experiences rather than escaping them.

When you need something from someone it feels like you're trying to take something from them rather than sharing or collaborating. When you overly invest in someone it shows desperation. Needing something from someone is different from wanting. A person that needs usually feels shame in the taking and feels he should hide his intentions. A person that wants but doesn't need can make his intentions known right away and find out the outcome rather than prolonging it. A person that wants but doesn't need is able to accept rejection and not waste time on those that isn't interested. It's a lot more secure and mature. You know your worth and that not everyone will like it. You don't try to convince someone or act differently. They either want to be with you or not and if not then you move on to people that are interested. So following your desires fully is different from acting out of neediness and desperation.

 

You don't know what's really good or bad for you until later down the road and you look back on it.

We used to think that porn and masturbation was good for us. That it made us happy and fulfilled.

So no, we don't know shit about what's good for us.

Our vision of how it's supposed to be is highly flawed.

Think of what else in life you're so sure of that might not really be good for you after all.

As an observer with the information that you've given us, I can tell you that the girl you've been talking about isn't good for you relationship wise. You could meet so much better and more compatible women.

 

Sucks dude, sorry

 

Sorry to hear that bro!

 

Generally, you should save it for the second date. It all depends on how well the date is going, though. However, if you do and she pulls back, then respect her decision (no ifs, ands, or buts) and carry on.

EDIT: just saw your message. That sucks, man. Hang in there...

 

I am a greedy hugger, and like bearhugging women. If I feel a woman relax and become passive I go in for a kiss. If they tense up, or keep their composure I don't.

 

i would say and i am a girl best way to set the mood for the kiss is to establish physical contact (playfully joke if that is your style, find an excuse to touch her elbow, hand, fingers small touches and she should like it if she is into you, see if she smiles and enjoys spending time with you but i d say arriving to a third date i would say she likes you back ) and then kiss her, go for it, go with the flow. never ask to kiss a girl or you would destroy the mood before the kiss, yes go for the hug and look at her amazing idea!