Finally Moving Forward ~Rachie's Journal

We used to have a rule... Actually we still have it... But used to use it more...
Anytime my SO had anything higher than a Saw and no sex that night.
Any lying and no sex. (omission is lying)
Because I didn't want to be the Chaser for his dopamine drops either.

 

@Rachie I totally get it! I actually talked with Jak about a lot over the past week, and told him some similar things, so he would understand. Not about ogling, but about other things that might cause me to not want to be intimate. Once I explained it Jak was like, "Ohhh, I get that" but it took direct communication for him to understand.

I second what @Kenzi said, maybe set some ground rules because it's true no one wants to be the chser for the dopamine drip. Plus that's not what healthy sexual intimacy is. It should be about two people wanting to be together without outside factors like ogling making the person want to be intimate with you. They should be in the mood simply because you are in the room and looking at you makes them want to be close to you. That's a real turn on when that happens.

 

He SHOULD NOT have said this...the mentality of "not going to get anything out of it" is wrong. Period. There should be times where he wants to kiss and hug you and that is all he expects / all he wants.

..

When you said this:

I don't think it has to be one extreme or the other. I think there is such a think as a 'sex drive' .. something inside of us is driven towards sex / wants sex / etc. That is healthy and good. When a man wants to kiss and hug his SO, I think he can love her AND want to have sex with her at the same time.

The issue is what he if wants sex and she doesn't .. or more open/known: what if he broke a rule that day and knows that sex is off the table? In the latter case (which is what I think you are referring to), he should not transfer his "punishment" onto his SO by not wanting to touch his wife at all! That is the perfect opportunity to serve his wife and go into those close moments with his SO knowing it's going to just be kissing/hugging/holding---there IS no question of 'will we be intimate..yes or no?'

Any frustration that he feels..he needs to redirect that into doing better the next day. (I know, I know: easier said than done)

 

I am so sorry, but shit. Wow, I would feel like crap if that were happening in my relationship. I know that for Jak and I we know that if he doesn't do recovery work we separate. And for now, we haven't had PIV sex since 3 months ago because I've been too scared of the pain and ever getting pregnant again. We both want it but are okay with it off the table for now. We do other things.

It shouldn't all be about sex. If you set a boundary of if he oogles/stares/notice/saw, whatever, and if that happens no sex, that should be respected. Hell, when Jak oogles cars in front of me it's an automatic turn off emotionally and I don't want to be close to him after that, and hell if he oogled a girl I would just get up and leave that's how hurt I'd be.

So you have every right to say no sex on the table during this period where oogling is happening. It's not a punishment because you are taking care of yourself and protecting yourself.

Jak took a long time to decipher punishment from consequence, we actually talked about that in couples therapy a couple weeks ago. He wasn't getting the idea of consequences. Consequences are naturally occuring actions that take place after a prior action happens. I.e. He oogles, I get turned off and want nothing to do with him so I take some space that day. First action (oogles) causes turn off(needing some space). That is a natural consequence.

Actions have consequences, I keep telling Jak that. Every action and decision has a ripple effect. Jak liked the analogy of if he wouldn't do it or say it with me standing next to him, then he shouldn't do it. If he does do or say that, then he knows there will be a natural consequence to those choices.


I am sad WillSquirrel is dealing with the selfish impulses it seems. Jak until maybe a couple weeks ago was insanely selfish (aside from the bedroom). Jak is starting to learn to think about others around him, what are they feeling, what are they needing, how can he help etc.

Does WS ever think of those things? Does he offer to help around the house? Does he ask you what you might need emotionally that day? These are small ways to build selflessness. Also, maybe WS should do his own journaling surrounding this idea that sex should be given when he wants it, and when he doesn't get it he throws an "adult" temper tantrum (no touching you) by throwing the consequence back on you.

For me and Jak, our sex life has had quite the roller coaster ride. I always was higher drive and was the one getting rejected. I never got hateful or spiteful, but rather depressed. I felt unattractive, and so I stopped initiating. Jak and I still have conversations about this topic as life and drives shift. Have you and WS talked about how sex is about not just physical pleasure but emotional safety too? Because I am sure you and WS both want each other, but it seems he isn't getting the fact you want to be the one and only and it's not a turn on or it doesn't feel as safe/special when he has been having notices/saws that day and then he comes home wanting some.

And what is wrong with just kisses and cuddles? I told Jak that until I felt more emotionally safe that I would want kisses and cuddles, and if I wanted more I'd take lead, but to not expect that until there is more emotional safety. Honestly, kisses and cuddles are the best when sex is off the table. I rather have those even if sex was on the table sometimes. The passionate kissing and caressing is much nicer in moments where there isn't time for sex, or just factors are not allowing sex at that moment in time. Being able to touch in small ways really can go a long way, and maybe WS doesn't see that?

I hope things get better and WS can understand why you don't want sex on those days.

 

I relate to this very much! In the beginning when Jak and I met I had sex with him 2-3 times a day for months straight. I figured guys want girls who always want sex, and Jak seemed game in the beginning before things started coming out. Only since DDay have I said not in the mood. Given my sexual trauma's Jak has always been respectful about stopping during sex if I had a flashback (and when we first met there were a lot of stop and starts from my own flashbacks to Jak not being able to stay hard through sex). But I never wanted Jak to ever feel sexually unpleased. I "always" was in the mood, I wanted Jak to know he had a woman who loved him, wanted him, and was amazing in bed so he wouldn't feel the need to go somewhere else. But again, PMO is never about us, it's about the addict.

That's interesting. It was the opposite for us. After DDAy we had hysterical bonding sex, not real sex, and aside from that I wanted space, Jak didn't give it, but he wasn't really all over me. There was distance. These days Jak is clinging all over me, cuddles, touches, non stop! I wonder why that happens to addicts, whether they are very touchy or withdraw their affection....

Yeah, I would cave with boundaries too. When I met Jak I was honest, upfront, and told him my boundaries (it was something I'd never been able to do and was so proud of myself). I thought Jak was respecting them, he seemed very happy I was able to tell him my needs, boundaries, and such. But After DDay and during the mini ddays I started to realize no matter what boundary I asked for he would not respect it, and so little by little, my voice that was once so strong and confident, started to shrink and shrink until I barely whispered. It's funny because when Jak gets upset at me I physically pull into myself and shrink and Jak always says, "No, please, don't shrink, speak" lol. Part of me recovering is finding my voice again.

 

SAME!

And SAME!!

 

Yep, same for me, just double; 12 years of this downward transformation - until I finally put my foot down and told him: I'M DONE. That was his rock bottom moment.

I want to find joy again, I've been so miserable for over a decade, it seems like it will never get better.

 

I am sure that my wife feels this same way.

 

I think all of us S.O's feel this way. This whole experience is so mentally exhausting for us.

 

I’m sure you probably explained somewhere but why do you keep the grandparents at a distance?

I get losing yourself after getting married. I feel the same. I love people I’m a people person. I used to love planning things and having people over and hanging out with friends and stopped all that because with his addiction he was the opposite.

 

THIS is so us. My wife and I loved having friends over / hosting dinner get-togethers...we have a big deck in our back and would grill and hang out with friends. Weather hasn't quite turned warm for us yet .. but the way things are --- I'm not sure we will be doing much of this anymore this Spring / Summer .. [unless things improve]

In Europe, we had our teen's friends hang out at our house a good number of times -- that was fun. But we didn't make any real adult friends...pre- and post-DDay, we were very, very isolated in Europe. (hosting people was something we missed, a lot)