I'm calling BS on Something...

There's a difference between admiring a woman's beauty and eye-fucking her. Mentally undressing a woman and imagining yourself fucking her are not healthy behaviors. Nofap allows you to admire woman as a whole rather than a nice pare of tits or a nice ass. You don't have to avert your eyes every time a woman passes by just don't eye-fuck them.

 

It all depends on your goals.

I'm here because as a married man who is trying to become more like Christ, lusting after other women is counter-productive.

 

Hm. Well, first off, in order to validate your point, you'd have to show some evidence there are guys here that have actually said to not look at women and then those same guys report feeling happy from women staring at them.

But let's pretend this is true anyway for the sake of argument.

You are correct, for the most part. I mean, thinking about girls all the time is a bit counter-productive. There obviously is more to life than just women, but yes, this is a common goal for guys trying to abstain, including myself.

Some guys also report that abstaining helps them view women as equals as opposed to something that has to be fucked and thrown to the side. However, I cannot testify personally on experiencing this effect.

But you're assuming that the people that write these stories and experiencing these benefits are the same people that say to not even look at a woman. Nor can it be validated that those people agree with the party associated with the opinion of never looking at girls.

You must understand that we're men. Typically, especially if the girl is attractive, we love even lustful attention from girls, excluding guys that are married and have no desire to have girls chasing them or to chase girls and other exceptions.

As far as men are concerned, we take that attention as a compliment, regardless of whether or not it's "eye-fucking" or geniune interest.

Women, not as much. For them, that kind of attention from guys tends to be regarded as bothersome or creepy and nobody likes creeps except other creeps.

 

Hi ClassicCase. There is clearly a misunderstanding here, perhaps with other members in this community and perhaps with you. Please bear with me and let me explain what I mean...

There are two separate processes here: rebooting and rewiring. Both are required for a successful outcome, but they have different objectives and may not always run alongside each other at the same time. Let's take them one at a time.

As you rightly point out, porn is fakery (as is mimicking intercourse with your hand). High speed internet porn in particular has caused addiction and damage to the brain's reward circuitry (fuelled by the neurotransmitter dopamine). I hope all in the community can agree with the definition from The Glossary and my additional comments about rebooting.

Now, for most guys, in order to avoid that addiction being triggered and leading to relapse, they will steer clear of ALL sexual triggers for the first phase of their reboot. How long that is, is a matter of personal judgement and choice. I usually advise guys to avoid ALL sexual stimulus for the first three or four months. Otherwise, some would never last beyond a few days and would simply keep relapsing making a reboot impossible. Even those with sexual partners find that having sex with a real person slows down their reboot and they get strong urges to look at porn afterwards! It's true!

You are quite right to say that the ultimate objective is to rewire our brains to real people. Some may choose to wait until they are fully rebooted to do this (so they can get to the end of their reboot in the shortest amount of time). Some will wait a few months and then allow themselves to begin their rewiring to real people. If some have a sexual partner or the opportunity for sex arises, they may choose to reboot and rewire at the same time (even though the rebooting will take longer and the risk of relapse is greater because of the chaser effect each time - see The Glossary).

I think misunderstandings occur because people often do not articulate their goals in great detail and because there is so much scope to do this in whatever way you wish. I do not think it is hypocrisy and that may be an adjustment for you.

 

Why does it bother you so much what others think ? There will be many times in recovery you wont agree with fellow addicts thats shit they have to work thru just like you have shit you have to work thru. Its called working your own program, not everyone else's it sounds rude but its not, do what works for you to keep you sober from P.
Did you drive today or go outside see all those idiots driving, what will matter is how you drive not how they drive. You can't affect how they drive right, then don't let them affect how you do. I don't care what you do to stay sober if you come back in 5 years and this worked for you well great if it didn't well their yer sign. Don't let people take up real estate in your head whether someone says to look or don't ultimately comes down to your choice . Seen people fail at sobriety by simply worrying about everyone else's stuff. As I said you will find out soon enough if what they say is wrong or right.
Now had you come on here asking for advice thats different but you didnt. So let it go and focus on you

 

What are your thoughts when you see a sexy girl? Focus on your own intentions and I think you’ll know what’s “right” to do. If you can just glance at a body and say nice she works hard and continue on I think your better off than staring at an ass

 

There are a lot of different viewpoints on this site. A lot of it has nothing to do with PMO. A lot of it is just people's opinions. I just filter out what doesn't make sense to me. I'm using the method linked in my sig, as are a few others here. See this thread for a discussion on it.

It's been a little while since I read The Book but I don't recall it saying anything about how you should think about women. There is no moralising, judging, or virtue signalling. It purely a practical guide for giving up PMO.

As you say, this site is about helping you get clear of PMO. Anything else is irrelevant.

 

I think it's important bear in mind that there are very few carved in granite rules about how to go about reboot, recovery, whatever. Every situation is different. If you don't feel that checking out a woman here and there is a problem for you then okay, go ahead. If another guy feels he has to discipline his eyes that way as part of his process then okay, do that.

 

This forum is full of guys that can't get a girlfriend and can't get laid. Instead of confronting their deepest insecurities and sexual anxiety and going after what they truly want (a real girl to have sex with) they try to avoid everything sexual. Permanent hard mode , no looking at girls, no thinking about girls etc. I try not to take seriously advice from guys with no sex life at all. Give up porn and go have sex with a girl... That's should be the plan

 

It's natural to observe someone's body language and make eye contact, especially if you are crossing paths... A kind of 'friend or foe? or potential mate?' virtual handshake takes place.

I guess there is an unwritten rule to not look for more than a few seconds, unless you plan to interact with that person.

Lately I will challenge myself if I know there's attractive girls around, to not look at them at all. Productive? I don't know.. builds discipline maybe. But it's probably more challenging to make eye contact, walk over and start a conversation. In that regard, I am staying in the comfort zone which should be challenged next.

TLDR, looking at people is natural, more than a few seconds gaze should be followed up with a contact of some form (nod, wave, hi, smile)

 

I personally consider what some mentioned here (eye-f’ing, ogling, lusting after) practices that do not make me a better person, and do not contribute to my happiness. That is why I work to stay away from them. Same goes for hookups, casual sex, mind-fapping/fantasy. I’m working towards a relationship, but with the goal that sex, attraction and sexual desire, be part of a committed married life within that relationship. (Yes, I’m religious, but do consider this to be part of understanding sexuality differently, not purely as a result of my religious convictions)

Now, if that invalidates my opinion (as @Much Ado About Nutting suggested), I’m sorry. I do think it’s best to encourage people to take sexuality as a serious part of their being, and not a simple natural craving to be fulfilled by using people - even if those people are cool with that. I do question if casual sex is fact harmless, because it does remind me of many of the reasons porn is harmful and unfulfilling. I’ve found that some relate to this, including non-religious people frequenting these forums.

I hope this is not too pointy, thankfully it is not churchy, but I leave this here knowing that the forum encourages people to think and consider all aspects of sexuality.

 

On a lighter note...It got above 70 degrees farenheit where I live for the first time this year. And the ladies were dressed for it. A lot of temptation out there for those of us trying to lay off the eye candy.

 

Meanwhile on my side winter is coming, which brings with it rain and yoga pants...

There's just no season we aren't tested just don't spend too much time at the beach in summer lol