About Christians

I'm new here and I'm surprised with all the God talk actually.

Simple question: Are you aware that the biggest porn users being Christians, or rather being religious people is a well documented phenomenon?

Idk, I'm just confused. It's a big deal. But it doesn't seem like anyone here has any clue about it.

I don't know how to go about moving forward, helping people on this site now. Should I just ignore Christians?

 

Why is it wrong of me not to help a Christian to stop smoking but simultaniously ok for you if I don't? I know the answer vaguely, I just would like you to clarify. (The Bible does not say "It's ok to smoke" though, as far as I know, I hope you thus see the error in your argument)

Are you a Christian?

Maybe I'm not saying much at all. Maybe you should just be sure that I'm definitely asking a simple unanswered question. So far I'd say I've done a pretty good job of identifying it of the class of unanswered question.

The rest is just about how I can't predict people's views based on what things look like to me on a forum in 3 days. If that's more clear, I'm just trying to add a disclaimer. Just trying to be humble here man.

 

Wait a minute didn't I just say that this is not the case? Christianity encourages the suppression of sexual urges. People that do this, every single one with internet access, becomes a porn addict. No and if or buts. This is a fact.

 

Thank you for your intelligent, informed and understanding answer, Singleindividual

I have talked to some Christians about it. I'm seeing a good Christian friend today for MMA and Krav Maga self-defence training. We will not be meek haha. So yeah there are a lot of good people out there that happen to be Christian. Christianity is interesting to me, but being a Christian means nothing to me and says nothing about a person I believe. So I don't judge them any more I'd judge by the color of a person's skin.

I think sex is dangerous, I don't have a problem with casual sex but I do have a problem with casual relationships,
you're just asking to get burned. I've had both and also been in a serious relationship. It all just kind of ruined my life.
Except for the casual sex and some of my early normal relationships.

I'm not sure what moral effort I want to make moving forward, I kind of don't want to ever be in a relationship again.
But I'm kinda lonely. I'm conflicted. But I maintain that sex is natural, like the weird dreams you have at night,
it does not adhere to any morality. It's your reaction to it that makes it immoral.

 

Initially when you responded I wasn't trying to say something, asking a question can imply things. But stop not answering the question I ask and insisting in some confused, vague way that I'm saying some obscure negative thing. Ask me a question to clarify. You fully have my sympathy if you aren't sure. Also thank you for the apology. It's real considerate of you but forgive me, you're ignoring my question.

 

Sex binds two people together. That can be dangerous, making love is dangerous, yet the act of sex does not have to be dangerous. I get the filling the void point you're making. Sex is ultimately healthy imo, getting sex for a man is not the easiest thing in the world. It takes work, men are motivated by the imago of women to become better. My imago of women is damaged. Yeah, my soul is fractured. It's not games we're playing here. A bit of it is my fault, hers most deffinitely as well. Second last girl I was with was just a bitch in the end, I was trying to heal from my last relationship trauma. I completely blame myself for it, I knew better. But I completely forgot about her after Miss-second-last hurt me and could only think dark things about Miss-third-last. The last girl I was with was/is a complete sweetheart. We dated for a month and we just decided we didn't match, clean break, I initiated. Never fucked her. So yeah lesson learned...

I still feel ashamed about the third last girl. She REALLY hurt me and then I REALLY hurt her. It's been 3 years now. I guess in a nutshell I feel like if I went out and fucked a bunch of girls, I'd like women a fair bit more than I do now. I had skills with women untill she hurt me. Idk, dm me if you want the full story.

 

Idk man, if you're not an anti-gay christian you're alright. If you are anti-gay cause the bible says so, then you are also highly likely to be pro-sex-shaming for the same reason. IME that's just how it works. I've just read at multiple places on the internet that Christians use more porn - because they deal with more shame. I think the better question to ask is if Christians deal with more shame regarding their sexuality than Athiests. My argument in a nutshell - yes. Feel free to change my mind. No really.

Natural things should be left alone to be natural. Homosexuality is also in fact natural, it's everywhere in nature. "And they were not ashamed" - Genesis. Then they ate that fruit and the problem of shame came into the equation. The bible is implying "We've got a new problem to solve".

Read the first 3 chapters of Aion by C.G. Jung, if you truly WANT to know where my spiritual understanding on the matter starts. Especially the 3rd chapter. It's about 40 pages, extremely dense with information though.
It's because of Jordan Peterson that I gave Jung a chance- and also why I respect and value religious thinking in the first place. Keep in mind simple rules and "say-so" do not equate to religious thinking. My approach personally is to be anti-exclusive with the goal of developing awareness.

I would also like to allow these middle ground videos set the tone I resonate with.


I'm trying to be as clear in my thinking as I can. I apologise for the lack of references for my argument, I have found a few great websites that argue my case with plenty of references, mainly of the bible, but meh mostly "say-so" stuff, I think it's likely there's a better counter argument in there too honestly. It's a strange book even if I don't know it as well.

So if you are going to argue against my point I am expecting you to reference the bible directly. That's the whole reason why I started this thread. I have no real need to convince you of my point of view.

No reference - don't even try.

 

Everytime a Christian says "Because the bible says so" I want to punch them in the face. Seriously. But that's just a projection from my sub-conscious, projected on said scapegoat Christian. A projection of my hate, the hate of ideology. And you know what? That's ok. I do not condemn your shadow any more than mine. My point is that at least I'm aware of mine. I had to actually stop and think for myself to have that level of self-awareness. To be aware of one's shadow is a moral achievement beyond the normal. This serves as a prime example of what I fundamentally disagree with regarding Christians. You can always just blame everything on Satan, OUT THERE. Nooooo it's not psychological projection, it's Satan woooo. It's not just what's part of your biology... yeah sure.

It's completely normal to have a dark side, to have dark thoughts and it's ok to make mistakes when your dark side gets involved, but you make right, you learn from your mistakes. You don't make an enemy out of your dark side, you NEED your dark side to function. An excellent example of this is Derren Brown's "The Push", he socially pressures people through an elaborate act in a building full of actors, into pushing a person off a building - I wont spoil it, but at the conclusion of the episode Derren says "... but to PUSH BACK." I think, be a dick sometimes, say "That's BULLSHIT". Sometimes it's absolutely correct to be rude, since you have no other choice.

Imo this Satan idea is an excellent way to control people, to make them feel ashamed of their thoughts. THOUGHTS, are you kidding me?? That's an excellent way to suppress and ultimately create a darkness people project onto others. People like that never learn to feel a healthy amount of guilt without shame. You've esentially taught someone that there's something fundamentally wrong with them and that they need God in order to overcome Satan. A never ending cycle of shame addiction, since it's your fault for not having enough of God in your life. I've been to church, I've seen it with my own eyes. Most of your agreeable church members would push that man off the building.

The good news though, I believe Satan is just an analogy to The Shadow - what your bible is trying to tell you - notice this is a critique of Christians NOT Christianity. Christian communities are not free of corruption. I've met plenty of Christians that resonate with what I'm saying. The Bible is to be understood symbolically, The Shadow is a problem but somehow Christians have made it more of a problem by the mere expression of the idea of Satan. I wish I never heard of these ridiculous notions. To be left alone to develop normally, ironically, as God intended.

For instance take the example of how you said "I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sex-shaming but I would guess you mean we are anti casual sex? If thats the case, than yes" I don't believe that shaming and condemning anyone under any circumstances are moral. Period. I know a person with mild pedophilic tendencies, because of being extensively molested while they were young, but it's not acted upon and NEVER will be. It's a no-brainer. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with my friend. It's shit, but it means that my friend needs to accept this shadow and not condemn it. Shame is a soul eating emotion, is that what you want for my friend? Weakness??

"We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses." - C.G. Jung
If you wake up and your house is busy burning down, will you accept that your house is busy burning down and get out? Start planning on a life without your house? Gays for instance are never going to go away.

Casual sex, same logic, it turns out a mistake, you learn from it, you tell the tale of why it was a mistake. Not because the bible effing says so! no questions asked! Don't you get how freaken shame inducing that is?? That's not thinking, God gave you a brain. Sorry. I just have zero tolerance for this. THINK. The bible gives you the tools to think, "because the bible says so" is NOT religious thinking.

Gay people don't hurt anyone. It's also a no-brainer. Also they were born that way. Gay people are capable of love, widespread love. Do you kick your dog out of your house when he screws his mate too?

This is why the church is dying. Are you gonna accept that your house is burning down? Your choice.

"Then they ate that fruit" It wasn't obvious enough to you that I knew I was referring to Adam and Eve? Forget gay people. My point and the point of Genesis (Via using it for the mode of religious thinking) is: don't shame. Ok, but the bible also says "Being gay is DETESTABLE". That's a clear contradiction. My point is that thinking trumps "Say so". So in conclusion, your bible communicates that you should be ok with gay people and ACCEPT them and find a way to live with them in a way that doesn't hurt anyone, which i don't think is all that hard to do honestly. With pedophilia that's definitely more complicated and has more extremities, it's a horrible thing. My friend in later years became close to the person who molested him. Think about that. Does a weak person come to mind?

 

Single Individual. I can see you are trying. You might get somewhere. If not, that's ok, just keep talking. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I resonate, so many trans people are unfortunate cases, but there is a place for them in this world. I get your point, it's like trying to empathise with -insert most serious mental illness- people, as far as that makes sense, since there are a lot of people with serious mental illness that could use empathy. Just makes me sad honestly.



Gonna edit, I notice you might take offence to "You might get somewhere" I'm empathising, since I've struggled quite a bit to get somewhere with understanding the world, talking helps, reading is also essential though, or vids to start you off - I too like Ben Shapiro. But you surely can get somewhere. So I'd like to share something that has given me some peace about society.

Ok Leo is kinda just selling the idea for the first 8 minutes, so feel free to skip to 8:00