To be free from porn you need to watch porn (in a different way)

RicardoL · Feb 9, 2020

ultrafabber said: ↑

Yes, there is no mistake in the title. You will never end a porn/pmo addiction as long as you keep running from it. First of all, this is a theory. Second of all, this doesn't mean i'm encouraging anyone to stop reading and open a porn tab, do NOT use this as an excuse to watch porn/masturbate. [edit - Last, but not least, being able to watch porn and not get aroused is the end goal, it's not something you just jump into because it is likely to lead to relapse. There are other steps to do before watching porn - opening and closing incognito window, typing a porn address and closing the window, watching the porn homepage without clicking any video etc]

Before I begin, i need to define what "porn" means and what i mean when i say "porn". "porn" will encompass all forms of sexually stimulating material - videos, gifs, pics on instagram/facebook, audio sex, erotic texts, sex comics, ANYTHING that sexually arouses you. Obviously XXX clips are the worst offender, but those are the worst only because they combine multiple stimuli. However, for some people XXX clips may not be the most stimulating, for some it might be pictures and so on. The point is that if it's sexually stimulating and you're using it, it should be classified as "porn".

Now, why am i suggesting or even entertaining something like "watching porn to stop porn addiction"? In short, because any addiction, if you strip it down to it's core, has two components: 1. CUE (or trigger) > 2. BEHAVIOR.

What's happening with porn/masturbation addiction is that your brain has an extremely strong association of the cue to the behavior (seeking/binging/masturbation). You see a "triggering" image and the behavior starts on it's own because it sees porn/masturbation as a reward. And this not wrong, porn has definitely produced the mother load of rewards (pleasure, stress control, sleep aid, etc). For your brain porn has been the most amazing lever for instant rewards/pleasure etc, much greater than any other thing that existed in your life (except drugs). In terms of efficiency/effectiveness your brain registers porn/masturbation as the greatest thing that ever existed.

And this is the first thing you need to understand: as horrible and destructive porn/masturbation in the long run, in the short run it's the best and most amazing thing ever. If you look at it objectively the solution your brain comes up with in the short run (to watch porn/masturbate) is perfectly logical.

No matter how many times you tell to yourself you'll never watch porn again, yada yada, when faced with the possibility of acting out, your prefrontal cortex (the one responsible for planning and conscious decision making) shuts down. Your memory of past failures and unpleasant consequences of porn/masturbation use disappears.

All that matters is the very archaic function of the brain of CUE>BEHAVIOR. It's like the reflex where you touch something hot and your hand instantly moves away. You don't have to think "well, this surface is hot, it would be in my best interest that I move my hand away because the heat will cause damage to my skin/nerves/muscles". The brain will move the hand for you and you'll ask questions later.

You might think that if you abstain long enough you will be cured. Yes, this could theoretically happen but it will take decades and is context dependent: have you started with porn as first sexual experience, what's the ratio of real sex/ pmo behavior, how intense was the pmo behavior, how depressed/anxious are you and so on. The cue>behavior association is extremely strong for an addict.

That's why stories of "relapsed/binged after 30, 60, 90 days" are very common and people keep struggling. Abstinence by itself is not enough. It is obviously better than just pmo-ing like a fiend, but abstinence only won't solve your problem.

What makes things even worse is (and it's scientifically proven) that random rewards actually reinforce a behavior better than consistent rewards do. I've been following nofap for 7 years now and the overwhelming majority of people have multiple failures, failures at uneven intervals (i used to be like that as well). I want to emphasize that I don't want to take anything away from people that are trying, it is absolutely commendable that they are trying again and again to tackle the pmo beast.

What i'm trying to say is that the current paradigm of trying to do "streaks" again and again with no actual plan is not only extremely difficult but also extremely inefficient.

I'd compare it to someone trying to fill a pool with water but using a perforated/leaking bucket. Yes, the person doing 100,000 runs with the leaking bucket to fill the pool is definitely commendable for his efforts, but the pool could've been filled with only 2,000 runs with a good bucket. More importantly, the person with the leaking bucket is very likely to give up after 20,000 or 50,000 runs.

So the takeaway so far should be that

a very strong association of cue>behavior will never ever be truly extinguished through abstinence (because the mind will always expect the next random reward)

if you're trying and failing, you're actually telling the brain that it should expect the reward, therefore actually reinforcing the association of cue>behavior.

In your mind there are two elements that sustain the addiction:

that porn/masturbation is normal/good/healthy

that porn/masturbation will lead to reward

I have previously discussed how porn/masturbation is not normal/good/healthy at all (it's basically cuckoldry/you become a woman also etc) and i'm not going to elaborate on that now as the point of the topic is that of cue>behavior. But before moving forward i'm going to emphasize that it's essential to genuinely understand and believe that porn/masturbation is NOT normal/good/healthy. Sex is normal/good/healthy, all other sex replacements are not.

Now, on the association of cue>behavior and why you actually have to watch porn to stop watching porn.

The point is that you need to destroy the association that "watching porn leads to sexual arousal". This will only happen if you associate this with something else and eventually associate it with no response (neutral stimuli).

The same way as you watch a monkey climbing a tree and you DON'T get sexually aroused, you should watch porn and NOT get sexually aroused. Porn is essentially a short circuit of your brain - it's just an image or a stimuli that does NOT lead to sex. It tricks the mind to get ready for something that does not exist. In essence it's tangent to a hallucination.

There is a very important thing that needs to be said. Depending on the severity of addiction, you need to have COMPLETELY abstained for at least 2 weeks to 2 months before starting this protocol. 2 weeks of 100% abstinence should be the absolute minimum for anyone. Why is that? Because the association of cue>sex arousal (when your brain shuts down) is just too powerful after only a couple of days from the last pmo session. Your brain is very likely to trick you and you are very likely to relapse.

So let's say the critical abstinence period passed. What do you do now?

There are no clear steps because each case is different, the rule is that you should start VERY slow. Plan a moment in your day where you'll watch just 1 minute of porn WHILE you're doing something else (like pushups) then you immediately have a cold shower or go outside for a run. Or do laundry, vacuum. You will probably get aroused doing it and you should try to resist it. Tell yourself it's just two other people having sex, it has nothing to do with you. That there is no female actually available near you to have sex with.

Then don't watch anything the next day, then watch 1 minute of porn but actually do sit-ups. Or juggle. With porn in the background.

Yes, it sounds completely silly but this is the only way to break the association of porn>sexual arousal (masturbation).

Then the next week start a porn clip but go to the kitchen and make yourself a sandwich, then close the porn for that day. Truly, you can go wild on "doing something else" while porn is running. If/when you start getting aroused, STOP the porn. Do not allow yourself to stay aroused while watching porn. If you get aroused in 10 seconds, that's enough porn for that day, you go do something else.

The goal is to see porn like something neutral running in the background. Later, you can even keep a porn tab open but not click it for 5 hours. Or have the sound going but no video. Or watch porn on split screen with the news.

Another exercise is just opening a porn page and then closing it. And repeat that 100x times. After a while, open a page, search something, then close it. And repeat that 100x times. Then play a porn clip and immediately close it. Then repeat that 100x times.

edit: I forgot to mention two methods which should be the first step and i think most people can do - in case you used to watch porn in incognito window, a very good exercise would be to simply open an incognito window and then close it. No searches, nothing. Just open and then close, repeat 20-50-100 times. Another exercise would be to simply "jerk-off" the air next to you (not watching porn or sex fantasizing, keep it neutral) and repeat that at random times/intervals. You can do this while watching a stream for example. Or just watch a wall. This will train the mind to stop associating jerk-off motion with sex/pleasure.

There are many techniques and i will probably make a list for them in the future, here i'm just trying to outline the strategy that leads to the severing of the association of porn>sexual arousal (masturbation).

Do not expect immediate results. This will take at least 3 months depending on the severity of addiction.

But you will be free from PMO addiction forever.

Again, i emphasize that you should not use this as an excuse to watch porn/masturbate.
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I support you Sir. One has to simply learn to hate the P. I have opened the home pages and I looked straight at it with a "positive affirmation" you took 10 years of my life you will NOT get anymore Mr. P. because this may not be for someone whose mind may not be strong enough. I have been a victim my entire life so i know how to zone myself out

ultrafabber · Feb 9, 2020

FoamRoller said: ↑

The best way to quit porn is by reprogramming, but what makes you think your techniques will work? And suppose they do how do you know you won't loose all arousal?
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Fair questions. I believe they work because of the logic behind it, most importantly. I also know they work because i applied them on me first and i no longer have an interest for "straight" porn, the porn i had watched and been addicted to for 20 years, the porn i started my "sex life" with. Seeing a man with a woman puts me off now. Also stroking my dick puts me off now. I no longer have to fight those urges because i simply do not have them.

It's like me fighting not to eat dirt.. i don't have to force myself not to eat dirt because i have no desire to eat dirt and the thought of eating dirt puts me off.

To make sure one keeps his arousal, he can and should watch solo women, but without stroking his penis.

RicardoL said: ↑

I support you Sir. One has to simply learn to hate the P. I have opened the home pages and I looked straight at it with a "positive affirmation" you took 10 years of my life you will NOT get anymore Mr. P. because this may not be for someone whose mind may not be strong enough. I have been a victim my entire life so i know how to zone myself out
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Thank you. That is the right attitude. No more victimhood and running away. Even if one fails, at least you fail fighting instead of failing while running away (abstinence).

ultrafabber · Feb 9, 2020

gingeralan said: ↑

This thread just sounds like the alcoholic that only drinks socially. If you are happy watching porn, crack on, but if, as most people here feel, you have a problem. Watching porn ‘in another way’ is a ridiculous suggestion
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So you didn't understand anything i said. How does this thread sound "like the alcoholic that only drinks socially" when the main idea is that people need to learn how to NOT be interested in "straight" porn? It's the complete opposite of "being happy watching porn".

gingeralan · Feb 9, 2020

ultrafabber said: ↑

So you didn't understand anything i said. How does this thread sound "like the alcoholic that only drinks socially" when the main idea is that people need to learn how to NOT be interested in "straight" porn? It's the complete opposite of "being happy watching porn".
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To prove it, you need to look at the problem material. Much more likely to lead to relapse or escalation. If it’s worked for you awesome, but don’t go suggesting it as a viable way for people with addictive personalities to deal with their problems

ultrafabber · Feb 9, 2020

gingeralan said: ↑

To prove it, you need to look at the problem material. Much more likely to lead to relapse or escalation. If it’s worked for you awesome, but don’t go suggesting it as a viable way for people with addictive personalities to deal with their problems
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Your comparison is very off. An alcoholic drinking socially still implies he likes alcohol (which isn't inherently bad, an alcoholic needs to dislike being drunk, not drinking) but that's another discussion.

In this case we are talking about something (watching "straight" porn) that is fundamentally abnormal and has nothing one should like because there is another man there and the viewer should not like losing access to a woman he has sexual interest in.

Yes you are more likely to relapse but at the same time you actively train to resist it and dislike it, whereas abstinence trains nothing and 1 day in abstinence or 100 days in abstinence you have the exact same "skill" to resist temptation.

It's not that it worked for me. It's cue exposure and it works because it is a technique. I did it myself first because it would've been unethical to propose it without doing it myself first.

It's a technique that works on ANY addiction. The way addiction is "treated" currently is wrong.

gingeralan · Feb 9, 2020

ultrafabber said: ↑

Your comparison is very off. An alcoholic drinking socially still implies he likes alcohol (which isn't inherently bad, an alcoholic needs to dislike being drunk, not drinking) but that's another discussion.

In this case we are talking about something (watching "straight" porn) that is fundamentally abnormal and has nothing one should like because there is another man there and the viewer should not like losing access to a woman he has sexual interest in.

Yes you are more likely to relapse but at the same time you actively train to resist it and dislike it, whereas abstinence trains nothing and 1 day in abstinence or 100 days in abstinence you have the exact same "skill" to resist temptation.

It's not that it worked for me. It's cue exposure and it works because it is a technique. I did it myself first because it would've been unethical to propose it without doing it myself first.

It's a technique that works on ANY addiction. The way addiction is "treated" currently is wrong.
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I’m not even going to attempt your method, you are trying to use conscious thought (essentially fooling yourself you are repulsed by what you are looking at).

This method sounds like something that would need professional support to ensure you didn’t fall back into old patterns, all the best and good luck to you, but I’m just gonna have to agree to disagree with you.

ultrafabber · Feb 9, 2020

gingeralan said: ↑

I’m not even going to attempt your method, you are trying to use conscious thought (essentially fooling yourself you are repulsed by what you are looking at).

This method sounds like something that would need professional support to ensure you didn’t fall back into old patterns, all the best and good luck to you, but I’m just gonna have to agree to disagree with you.
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You are most certainly welcome to disagree and not attempt this, what i am saying is that your reasoning for why this does not work was off because that comparison was incorrect.

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To be free from porn you need to watch porn (in a different way)

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