Can porn free masturbation help with rewiring?

I would recommend that you don't masturbate at all because more likely you're going to have lustful thoughts in your head and going to relapse.

 

In theory sure, PMO vs. MO, at least you have that and that's just some peoples goal anyway - next to the counter of many you see "Porn" only sometimes. I also see you qualified it in terms of getting a kickstart so it's in view of the longer overall trajectory.

In practice, you need to be totally honest with yourself. As you already said there's still a fantasy element, and some people can O without any [conscious] thoughts at all, but for many of us P is really wired with MO in the first place, so there is actually almost no way we would MO if we just stayed away from P. Like for me I know it's easily 90% less without P and now not at all because I'm just not interested.

The truth is both PMO and MO have an element of imagination, the imagery being generated in the mind vs. on the screen and the particular scene isn't really as significant to me - the bottom line is imagining it is real and telling yourself that, otherwise you couldn't get turned on.

I'm all for the power of your mind, so my question is can you use your imagination to get turned OFF? If you're going to go there and only limit it to, basically FMO then it's basically a one way thing isn't it? Instead of being able to turn it on and off you can only turn it on.

And while willpower and mastery over our mind doesn't come over night, is it something you are interested in? I guess it does depend on peoples goals.

 

I have seen many people try this and for some this kind of arragement has worked, but I would not to it, since it's the orgasm and pleasure part of masturbating which makes your life more miserable. For example if you try to do something boring(like im student and need to study), then masturbating which releases lot of reward things in brain will make that studying effort even more boring.
So masturbating is like negative e(Euler's number) for enjoying in life. Also having orgasm is also discouraged, because you lose lot of energy which you could also use to study. But these are only my viewpoints please don't dismiss them like everybody else.

 

Recalling porn memories is really good strategy on remembering what you have been watching. I use recalling everyday when I study one of best methods.

 

And again by the same token, the flip side it would be recalling relapse memories. There are times where that can be a prevention, but people are perhaps too emotionally fragile because there's so much shame around it that they just will not go there. So whether it's the capacity for imagination or memory it can be a double edged sword.

 

It's going to be more what I said in reply to sonic123rainbow above, after all it's much harder to stop thoughts than to change tracks - though that's kind of what you're doing when you're meditating. Of course you also don't have to stop the thoughts, but just let it be there without acting on it.

On the first point about changing tracks, it could even be said there are multiple tracks. Porn is simplistic and really when we look at it with a clear head, unrealistic. Suppose you meet this great girl, and you think you have a chance but then she shares something personal - lets say she was abused as a kid. With people who are smart enough, maybe has a one track mind they might see that as an opening and a vulnerability to exploit, and know enough to make sex happen, but if you have some emotional and psychological awareness and want the possibility of a relationship you would have another track and know this is not the time, even if you can coerce her to make it happen. In the first possibility she may never see you again, but in the other she may appreciate you listening and having some compassion and that could start building a foundation for a real relationship.

So the other direction, which also works is MORE thought - but not in terms of fantasy, rather the details of reality and thinking through all angles. This applies in a solitary situation of just not wanting to act out too. We probably all have enough experience to know how lousy we would feel if we PMO'd, and doing certain things increase the chances of having an urge. But I don't even think it's only before or after, again you have a choice in how to handle things. You may find yourself recognizing okay, I can just MO, but I'm still going to be a bit tired, and I have an early day at work tomorrow and that's just not going to work well, it's going to make my day that much worse even if it's just energy level and maybe a bit depressed and though I am doing this no fantasy or realistic fantasy MO thing this is just not the time, my urges are not that strong and I can just not do it right now. Big picture, basically.

 

I have question for you @iwontfail67 have you ever been in Nofap hard mode(easy mode) for 20 days?
If not I would suggest this quota from Aristoteles: The only thing I know is nothing(And that man knew lot).
Now im not saying that hard mode is right way, but if some asian monks can do it for whole life and life up to 100 years old,
so how can you not try to do the same? I don't think you can override memories, you cannot convince yourself into believing that 1 + 1 = 11 after you have learned that 1 + 1 = 2. Does not work this way I think, but again I want to hear your argument about this matter.

 

Well now we are in the same page.
I would suggest this book it has chapters about how to "control your thoughts"
https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/6-years-clean-rebooting-as-the-best-remedy.135983/

but there's also this book called you are not your brain which may also help you.
http://audiobookbay.net/audio-books/you-are-not-your-brain-dr-jeffrey-m-schwartz/
You need utorrent to download it, but it's great way to destroy any addiction you have.

I really do hope best for you! You are an amazing person @iwontfail67 and you deserve the best!
Since how many people are even trying to work out these problems which you are trying to fix, not many unfortunately.

 

Great that you have a PA coach and are working with him. You apparently have been on hard mode for some time and if you want to try a different approach with the assistance I'd say GO FOR IT.

I did wonder about one sentence in which you described yourself in hard mode 'replaying extreme porn scenarios in your mind' to make sure you'd still found them disgusting. This seems to me a dangerous strategy since you still keep your mind focussed on porn. Neurons that fire together, wire together is a well know saying. So, even if you replay scenes for the right reasons it still reinforces your old pathways.

I have tried MO for 1,5 years going with the Tantric/Taoistic way of dealing with sexuality and masturbation. It didn't work for me since I kept my mind addicted to thinking about M. Now that I stopped PMO completely and realizing I need to focus my mind on what I really want in life (work, meaningful and loving relationships, awareness), it's so much easier.

So, I really hope you're successful with your MO strategy. If you focus on the true goals you want to achieve in life you may realize your dream and stop your addiction at the same time.
On the other hand if, like me, you cannot stop yourself from being addicted to sexual thinking, I'd suggest you go back in hard mode and completely get clean in your mind. This strategy utterly changed my life!