P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

During PAWS I spent a lot of money on supplements. Neurogenesis inducing supplements, anxiety reducing supplements, depression reducing supplements. I spent so much money on supplements. Nothing worked, including omega 3 supplements. I still take omega 3 tho.

 

Do you have a scientific citation of that? I can imagine GABA levels tend to drop during withdrawal, because CRF rises during withdrawal. But according to some studies CRF increases GABA. It's complicated.


Edit: it is well known addiction in itself decreases GABA levels.

 

Hi guys, just an update.

I went for a full checkup with a doctor to see what was going on, private, which cost a fortune. NHS would of took so long. Everything came back perfect apart from testosterone which was 9.8nmol, which basically explains everything for me. I sort of suspected low testosterone for a while but didn't do anything about it. 9.8nmol is typical of an 80 year old male apparently, so lifestyle factors. Basically 10 years of bad habits led me to all of this, including the porn.

Now i'm sure i'm not an outlier on here and would say to go get checked if you guys can. Low T symptoms are identical to the 'PAWS' symptoms. I was also calorie restricting for a while so that would of caused a bit of grief too. Or your estrogen could be out of whack. Hormones are so important, without them working optimally your brain won't either. What I am saying is have an honest look at your lifestyle, diet, sleep, booze, drugs and whatever else and ask yourself is it optimal?

I am on a test gel at the moment whilst working out vigorously, lifting weights and small amounts of cardio to lose fat and put on lean muscle mass. I am getting morning wood again, anhedonia is subtly lifting and things are improving. Diet is on point, sleeping as best as I can with allergies. But I hope in 6 months I can get my natural test levels flying and report an update.

 

Great you finally found what's going mate. Can't you go on 250mg injections for TRT? The more androgens (in your case testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (it's active and more androgenic than anabolic conversion by 5a reductase) activate androgen receptors, which increase dopamine, and decrease anhedonia. When I was on steroids I felt amazing. It gives you that alpha male feeling. My testosteron is 16,2 nmol/l. And I am thinking of doing TRT. Check the attachment for an image of my recent blood test. Don't mind the extreme growth hormone (IGF-1) levels hehe. I was on growth hormone during that blood test.

 

Thank you @Big Lebowski for this useful information.

 

It appears that progress is halted, but not completely eliminated, I did always hear that addiction is not a linear process, this seems to prove it so, I only hope within the next 5 months that my PAWS will not resurface disabling me again like it before, however I have doubts that it will be intense since I don't feel terrible at the moment, the only way is to go forward and to not stop.

If any of you still deal with urges, find the habit that they lie in and get rid of it, the habit it is where the urges are coming from! It becomes much easier as it only becomes a game of endurance and patience after.

 

Thanks.

Testosterone levels have been decreasing among men for years. I would not be surprised if most of us all on here had hormonal problems. I don't want to go on full TRT yet as I am only secondary hypogonadal and can correct it with the right lifestyle choices going forward. But you're absolutely right in my own case low t has made everything miserable. I must of had it for years, when I was fat with higher LBM I felt better then than now in some ways.

 

@zander13 I saw your post and wanted to react later, but it seems you deleted it. What I meant by real kindling, is the neural kindling that takes place after GABAergic intervals and new withdrawals. The glutamatergic receptors NMDA and AMPA neurally kindle and change just like LTP (long term potentiation) the sensitization of hippocampal synaptic receptors.

What you and I experienced is something else, but if we want to keep call it kindling for the sake of it, thats fine. I also had exactly the same as you, and also called it kindling. I was so fucking scared to leave the house and my legs were so weak I had jelly legs. I could not walk 20 meters or my legs were so weak and started to look like I was walking on speghetti. I would just drop down on the ground because of the panic and weakness. I had a appointment with the barber one time, and was even afraid to leave the house, closely watching who was in the appartment hall, so I would not see anyone. I made it to the barbershop, but when the barber (which I almost consider my friend) started talking to me, a full blown panic attack hit me. He saw directly what was going on, and the shitty thing was that he thought I was getting unwell and wanted to call 911 (112 in the Netherlands), so I had to explain to him with shaky voice that I was alright, while everybody was looking at me, not helping me at all. I remember I relapsed during that PAWS in the early days, and the stress sytems came back to punish me hard, while it was an MO short handjob.
You can read it here:

https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/withdrawals.164123/page-4#post-1707203

I hypothesize that if you're still in active withdrawal and then relapse, the stress systems just get confused and start pouring out more stress hormones from the HPA axis and you get a more active amygdala. If you were clean for a while and start edging and binging hardcore, yeah you can get a worse and longed withdrawal as the last one. I also had a couple of intense edge binge relapses after my intense long 9 months withdrawal, and guess what? Now it only lasted 2 weeks. All I had was some anhedonia left (which is logical). Maybe it's different for you, because you're still in an extreme phase and even an MO withdrawal, will ofcourse make things worse. That's still not real neuronal kindling. My later relapses happened at 9 months and had way less withdrawal so they did not affect me that much. If I right now would edge for hours and hours and do it multiple days, I'm pretty sure I get very intense withdrawals and maybe even much longer PAWS, but it's just speculation. Luckily it did not happen to me and also other's like @Big Lebowski and @whysolong. It's still not real glutamatergic neural kindling if you will experience it. But I don't want to dismiss your experiences, so let's keep call it kindling.

 

@Big Lebowski I think the main reason is endocrine disruptors like BPA (works on and has agonism properties (activation) on estrogen receptors) more fat, no exercising office beta's sitting behind screens all day, not moving, eating shitty foods and drinks in BPA packaged bottles and boxes. Also sitting inside watching TV gives you way less vitamine d levels. (A steroid hormone that helps synthesizing androgens.) I suggest you supplement vitamin d. It also increases GDNF expression, which nurtures and heals the dopaminergic system, also our reward center (nucleus accumbens) and VTA.

I once read you have high body fat. Now I have no idea how well those testosterone patches work, but watch out for estradiol. With high fat you have more aromatase levels, because it's stored in fat. Maybe you should take some low dose aromasin (aromatase inhibition). 6 mg every other day is a good dose, and will not crash your estrogen. Aromasin itself also increases testosterone itself (because it inhibit's the conversion of testosteron to estradiol). This will help you drop estrogen and gain lean body mass and lose stored water. Because estrogen retaines water.

I wonder however... Where did the extreme symptoms come from? It must have been you stopping PMO. Did your shitty lifestyle, stress on top of that and low T add up to that? Probably. But the really weird symptoms sound like the ones who are also present in all extreme PAWS sufferers here. Porn must have played the biggest role in that, since when you quit porn it all started. I know low T can make you feel extremely bad with mental symptoms like anxiety, brain fog, depression, derealization, but I still think quitting porn was the catalyst that started it all. Correct me if I'm wrong. You know your body and feelings the best.

 

Do you really think sperm has something magical? We take the most nutrients from our foods, not balls. Don't you think that this healing takes place by the brain (CNS) and endocrine system? And not our magic ball fluids. There are castrated men that don't have any PAWS symptoms, and with testosterone injections, they feel perfectly fine and happy.

 

Unfortunately, such symptoms besides head sensations used to start after a relapse, either on the same day or two-three days later. They used to fade in week or so. This time Until this day things come and go. They are improving but unsteadily.

 

Could lower T levels not be caused by long term excessive masturbation? I mean across western society as a whole. I know plastics and many other factors are in play, but as far as I'm aware no-one has looked at this.

 

As a powerlifter I always kept track of my hormones. Testosterone, LH, FSH, SHBG, estradiol, prolactin etc. Always within healthy range. This was during my active addiction days, and during PAWS. What does happen after orgasm is that the androgen receptor density declines in the medial preoptic part of the sexual reward part of the hypothalamus, which regulates dopamine levels and lower libido when the ARs are downregulated. So less dopamine levels. I lived and live pretty fucking healthy (except some smoking and some GABAergics that are proven not to radically decrease hormones or health) now and during my active addiction and PAWS days. I also experienced very low T levels after a heavy steroid cycle, around 4 nmol/l, and I felt pretty bad. But never to the level that happened during PMO withdrawal. It all started after 20 days of being PMO free. But that is just my story.

There are also no studies done on this subject that I'm aware of.

 

A solid dose of magnesium malate is very effective in raising testosterone for some people mate. A quality ZMA supplement would be very worth trying. Also remember vitamin C, and D if you are not getting enough sun. Keep on going on the right path mate!

 

Best supplements I can come up with that really work fixing androgen levels are indeed magnesium (it does not really matter what form), Ashwagandha and vitamin d as it besides increasing androgen levels, also increases GDNF expression, which nurtures and heals the dopaminergic system, also our reward center (nucleus accumbens) and VTA.

 

I haven't lifted weights in years but I'm still able to juggle my pecs, I take soo many supplements I've forgotten what's in some of them, but Magnesium, Vitamin D 4000Iou, Vitamin E, Ashwagandha, Nettle Root, Korean Ginseng... are some of them that I remember, The list goes on, have been doing it for years, I think my T levels are quite high with these, I already have a light stubble after shaving and still retain high muscle mass despite not lifting much at all, I swear when you take all of these they Probably work nearly as well as steroids lol.

 

Just checking in folks.

 

That's impressive man. Your first stubble, that must be the vitamin e. I bet your total testosterone reached to 3000 ng/dl by just the vitamin e.

 

I see.

 

Time to leave this forum. It’s full of little kids unable to research their condition and can’t even make it past 7 days. Bunch of losers.

This is before my opioid and GABAergic addiction time.

Alright, I'm a little of a hypocrite here, because I have relapsed a lot to porn and sex. But 9 days was way too easy for me lol. I made it to many multiple months streaks and even had 2 long streaks of 3 and 4 months where I was highly motivated, the world had more color and depth, could sleep very deep and refreshing, girls looked stunning, extreme motivation, just a blissful almost MDMA light dose feeling. Superpowers? This was in 2014. After I relapsed (because I got hypersexual with EXTREME urges), because I got so horny, things turned sour. All benefits were gone and a lot of low dopamine symptoms were back. And then had a period of 1 or 2 months streaks max, but also shorter ones. I was a functioning addict and functioning fine at my IT job. This lasted till 2018.

Then came 2018 and the worst binge relapses happened after nights of MDMA and cocaine use. Then I quit and the hard withdrawals started. I admit I took a GABAergic drug to relax me during work from time to time. I still have this addictive personality. During this withdrawal, I made my longest streak and I went on 9 months, and started feeling better at 6 months. My libido came back while still having anhedonia and was able to work at my former employer at a part-time job, an IT Cisco multiple 3 times certified network engineer job and all I had was some brain fog. I still had 3 days of work as a painter because that's the job I aspired to, during the acute withdrawal, as I could not function full-time at my IT job. I was not bitching about it in any way.

Yes, I believe in porn withdrawal and PAWS. But agree that after some point (I’m not saying exactly 6 months) It’s time to move on. I have seen some accounts like @BeanBurrito who was feeling better after taking an AD.
I start to agree with some points with whysolong.

I have been through multiple substance withdrawals in early my life. The medications I used act way more rigorous than a porn-induced dopamine rush. Pregabalin, phenibut, benzodiazepines, baclofen. I took them because I have an addictive personality and love downers. And had witnessed the almost successful suicide of my mother, which was pretty bloody. Took the downers just to chill out and sleep deeply as fuck for growth hormone increase. Those COLD TURKEY withdrawals were way more severe than any porn-induced withdrawal would cause and I been through. This is in the period before 2014. And I took extreme doses of them that shocked even the psychiatrists. I had severe EVIL psychosis with hallucinations of demons and delusions I was the devil and the embodiment of all evil.

On top of that, I dislocated and broke both my shoulders because of almost deadly grand mal seizures. I was rushed to the hospital. My shoulders were so big and were so strong they could not stop holding me down. The flumazenil nose spray did not work because my tolerance was waaay too high.

They later, after the delirium tremens and convulsions were over was over, needed surgery to fix the fractured lose part and reconnect it. I had such a feeling of terror anxiety on multiple occasions and was put on suicide watch in multiple mental institutions, and no medication worked. Mitrazapine, olanzapine, lorazepam, Truxal, nortryptiline, topiramate, sertraline (not all at the same time).

My body told me weeks to end it all because I could do nothing during a catatonic state, where I could not move for more than a week. The amount of suicide-inducing symptoms are too much to name here. You can check some on benzobuddies. Porn withdrawal is pussy shit compared to GABAergic drug withdrawal, especially extremely high dose cold turkey withdrawal.

I also endured opioid withdrawal in the past, which is hell on earth also, but not deadly. And I know PMO withdrawal will never be on that level of torment. Ever experienced psychosis, grand mal seizures, delirium tremens, glutamatergic storm, that causes cell death? I bet not during PMO withdrawal.

I still believe you guys are experiencing symptoms, but maybe it’s now time to man up and follow @BeanBurritos advice? Or just man the fuck up and deal with your suffering. Stop whining in every thread about anxiety blablabla. Trust me I know porn can cause anxiety and even agoraphobia just like benzo’s but on a WHOLE another level. Just get the fuck out of that door, embrace the panic attack or whatever symptom. There are levels of anxiety and nothing compares to that of GABAergic withdrawal. It’s not subjective. Extremely low GABA extremely high glutamate withdrawal is way worse because it increases death terror and feelings of losing your identity or even death.

Also, this forum is full of people full of self-pity and victim complex. Pure weakness. Can't believe I was active and whining on here too. And I still experience some anxiety, insomnia anhedonia, low libido etc. But I stopped whining about it long ago. Just check my post history.

Ain't there something else is going on in the longer than a year sufferer. An endocrine dysfunction? A developed anxiety disorder? Go and check an internist and ask your doctor for an fMR, MRI, and SPECT scan. Too bad most of you suffer from scientific illiteracy. Part of me thinks all the anxiety from the acute and phases caused psychosomatic physical symptoms.

Oh yeah, then you got the old annoying fuck @Masked-Debater whining how good he was at his tech job, earning six figures, having a house and a girlfriend. But boo hoo he lost even his house? Is he living with mommy now? Besides will you ever recover or get your old cognitive skills back? You're along this far and still fucked up. Right now I'm at my old IT job earning plenty of money. My bitcoin and other stock assets doing pretty good. Too bad my anhedonia won't let me enjoy it yet.

-
Anyway goodbye. I won’t be posting here ever again. At least I was trying to educate some dumb fucks here. I don’t care what reactions I get from you suffering poor little victims. The “You won’t be missed" bullshit replies and the rest would not bother me at all. And yes I am an egocentric cynical sociopath and yes… I am evil and disturbed. And for the fat asses that never lift. Go to the gym. It might help you. Get off your screens. Oh yeah, I also used to troll you guys with other accounts in this thread and other parts of Nofap. Bye weaklings.