Telling the Wife

Except not one single significant other said “ yeah, don’t tell her”. Only other addicts said keep it a secret. Marriages have the best chance at surviving when the addict is truthful. Unfortunately most are not truthful and end up getting caught. Shoot, his wife might not even care that he looks at porn, I mean it’s not like he’s cheating, so why the secret? Since it isn’t cheating, it’s only having a wank, why you guys ashamed and hiding it? I mean, every guy does it right?

 

Look, I think that you've gotten plenty of input from both sides on this issue. I understand that telling your wife (in a proper way, with consideration, and perhaps with a therapist present) would be extremely difficult for you. One way of reducing that difficulty is coming to terms with it yourself first, and I get the sense that maybe a part of you is still feeling too shameful about it to confess your struggle. Reducing your feelings of shame about this struggle (while not minimizing its impact on your wife) will make it very freeing to talk about.

Before you get upset with people who are a little rough around the edges talking to you, maybe consider that their lives have been severely impacted by people who have kept secrets from them. They're trying to prevent the same hurt that they felt, or at least put you on the right path.

 

There is a HUGE difference between 12 steps amends and a full disclosure to your wife.

 

I was trying to point out the similarities though. In step nine direct amends are made wherever possible - 'except when to do so would injure them or others'.
You brought the 12 step program into this discussion and disclosure of sex/porn addiction is not mentioned at all in the 12 steps. However in the SAA equivalent of the AA 'Big Book', disclosure is mentioned and advice is given there.

 

Again, amends are not the same as disclosure to the spouse you betrayed. To lie to your spouse, even by omission, is protecting the addict, not the betrayed.

 

I agree, this is very sound advice.
Even if the OP (and/or his wife) doesn't benefit from it someone else reading this might.

 

I had the belief since an adolescent that moral principles were based on religious dogma and feel-good propaganda that people used for virtue signaling.

I had to learn the hard way that the feelings of alignment, peace, confidence, fulfilment and wholesomeness that I'd always experienced by being truthful, loving and kind even despite rationally practical judgement were not just consequences of being brainwashed into a moral framework in childhood.

I discovered that I had an inherent conscience inside of me, and it demanded a certain kind of behavior. The more I kept resisting that voice, labeling it as dogmatic echoes of indoctrination, and the more I tried going against it to pursue a life that I thought would be fully optimized for "happiness", the more I kept failing to have a sense of meaning and fulfilment in life.

Listening to the conscience has taken me down very rough paths in life circumstantially, but I've also been the happiest ever.

I do agree with you that nothing can be considered general. Maybe there is a set of possible scenarios (considering both the short- and the long-term situation) for which hiding the addiction and recovering in silence would be, probablistically (but never certainly) the best path to choose.

It might be hard to think of those scenarios, and it might be hard for truth- and transparency-obsessed people like myself to admit that those cases might exist. Just like the SOs here I really wanted to tell you to tell the truth. But my mind of pure rationality held me back.

Conversely, it might also be true that you, just like myself and people throughout history, experience the reality of a conscience that we can't disobey if we want true fulfilment in life.

The reason I'm now a complete truth-teller is that during the last few months I went through a very deep introspective search, analyzing my past, connecting the dots and reading/listening to a lot of discussion, books and work of popular figures throughout history who talked about finding and pursuing meaning in life, something that I'd felt was always missing in my life. I felt a strong sense of connection hearing the advice and encouragement to find that little voice in myself that aligned with love, truth and kindness, and then start listening to it and let it be expressed in action.

That's been increasingly rewarding to me and I have strong probablistically rational reasons to be truthful even when it might suck to do so.

But again, your experience might vary and I can't tell you what to do.

I'd just recommend starting some thought experiments and visualizations of telling your wife the truth, and of also not doing the same. Make them elaborate, and take into consideration not just the episode of disclosure, but also long-term aftermath. I'd like you to pay attention to the feeling that each scenario gives you. This might be difficult at first, but for a long-time meditator myself, I know that it's a practice of recognition that can be cultivated and used greatly.

Try noticing a contrast, and use placebo controls to diminish false judgements.

 

Likewise, I have gotten multiple PMs from addicts that say not telling was the biggest mistake they made and it was the deciding factor on whether their spouses stayed or left (or kicked them out.) It's so interesting that these men were only comfortable enough to say this in private...

The addict's quest to be right is strong.

 

If you were early in your addiction and had not already tried to stop, I might agree with the wait and see approach. However, you have already said you have been trying for years. I do agree that you shouldn’t just dump this on her. You need professional help and a guided disclosure. Absolutely agree with that. Yes, those of us who “ found” out, rather than having our spouse tell us, are urging you to be honest because we know the devastation of stumbling on this. Odds are Eventually you will get caught. You won’t tell her, it seems like you didn’t really want to know if you should tell her but rather wanted support of your decision to lie to her. Start saa groups, get a counselor, continue journaling, maybe you will be able to get clean and never tell her. I think, EdRick has done that? Follow his journal. You will not magically get clean because you want to bad enough. You must do the hard work of figuring out why you’re an addict, then addressing that while you stop using. You will need to change your life and that will make your wife happier, unless she doesn’t like you sober, which is also something that happens addictions. The addict gets clean, and their partner no longer likes them, that has not been my experience but from what I understand it’s not uncommon. Educate yourself on sex addiction/porn addiction.

 

Again, I was pointing out the similarities i.e. the importance of protecting the addict and the spouse. It's obviously not the same. Disclosure is this sense is not mentioned in the steps but, as I've already said, suggestions and advice on disclosure can be found in SAA and SA literature.
Thank you.

 

Hence the reason I said “ it seems”. I think what is almost impossible for you to actually understand though, is you are literally under the influence of your drug of choice. Until you have sone level of sobriety, your judgment is clouded. You may not agree. That’s your prerogative. What you see as arguing, I feel are people who have been where you are at and hoping to save both you and your wife the pain of discovery and the fall out of not having a spouse be honest. The lies are what really kill the relationship in the end. There is a reason why the professionals who specialize in this addiction advocate for honesty. They have worked with thousands of individuals, and have years of experience with what does and does not work. Are there going to be outliers? Yes, of course. Will you be one of them? Maybe, but pretty much everyone thinks they can and will be the outlier. I wish you guys could get your act together and get clean without having to subjugate your so to this. Kudos to you if you can. It’s just very uncommon.

 

@RiverBlue, Q for you: If you disclose and your relationship breaks down or ends, is that necessarily a bad thing (short- and long-term)? I know that it's hard for you to consider a counter-reality to your assumption since you clearly have a lot of emotional investment into the marriage and the upcoming child. I'm just trying to expand the domain of your skepticism.

 

I don't think there is anyway for any of this to feel like it hasn't happened no matter the tactic. The very using of porn was selfish, didn't take into account our feelings and force us to take on our partner's problems. I just can't see any way it doesn't automatically be all of these things - it's all this before you know, and it's all this after you know. I've tried going down the different paths in my mind for how I could have found out. Clearly walking in on someone would be the worst, especially if the partner is against porn, followed by finding evidence on a device. But I'm not sure that being told in a therapy situation would have been any better for me personally unless I was already in therapy dealing with hard stuff with my spouse. Otherwise I think I would have felt to observed over a very private and catastrophic blow to my marriage. Depending on the level of lies and how bad the betrayal goes in terms of content or modes of acting out, a spouses reaction can be pretty intense (and this is normal.) This is a trauma, response can be bad.

I can see this. I did not find out in the active addiction. I probably would have left on the spot if I did because I do consider it adultery. I'm not sure I could have contained my rage or the feelings of no self worth. I only found out because we were fighting about other lying he'd been doing, I was starting to get suspicious in general and I put an ultimatum on the spot that if there was anything else he'd done and it all came out because he could tell that I was serious and I would not even entertain remaining in our marriage if more secrets came out. I'm not sure that I would be better though if he completely recovered and I had no idea he was battling such a horrible thing on his own and still didn't need me. I think that would be a blow too severe to the relationship and make it clear to me that he would never be capable of the kind of marriage I desire. Maybe some women aren't looking for that level and would be ok, but I definitely am not. The porn use already says I will be separate from you, I will not allow you to know me. But then to hide the recovery too, that's just another level to me, one that says I am not willing to share myself with you even if I'm getting better, healing. It's really hard to first hear the betrayal, but then to also hear that your spouse was hurting so badly and didn't want you to be their shelter....that's just a really painful blow. At some point on the betrayed end, even though you are still disgusted and jealous all together, there starts to be a sadness and pain over your spouse not allowing you to care for them, to pull them from the need to numb out. So to never develop the agency to help your spouse (not manage the recovery, that is his work) nor be able to walk with him as a companion on a major life change, it can be too much for some. Maybe not all, but I wanted to put that perspective out there for anyone it might be helpful to.

I wish the people who were too afraid to post and did pm would have. Even if the main opinion in the thread is one way, the debate allows us to think about where the other choices could lead.

 

You can’t get the same feelings of a dopamine hit from watching a tour of Disneyland as going to Disney. Did you make a promise to only enjoy Disney together then lie about it repeatedly? How is it different? porn is a sexual super stimulus you get a much higher hit than you would with a long term partner. You can still get that same hit the very first time with a new partner. Think about how excited you get just for a first kiss with a new partner. Porn is a new partner every time flooding your brain with dopamine. You really aren’t designed to have that much dopamine. This is why porn destroys your sex life. You’re brain attaches to pixels, not people. You can’t get turned on by the same person or by vanilla sex. Your brain craves the higher hit that a new person brings or new sex act brings. Then you masturbate linking it to orgasm your brain/body now believed you had sex with those people. Then you add in the lies that go with the behavior. This isn’t just about the act. It’s about the deception that follows or precedes the act. I really believe this is the most damaging to the relationship. Did you make a vow not to go to Disneyland without your spouse and then you went? Because my vows included forsaking all others. This does not only mean “ not having sex” with others. It means choosing me over all others in our life. Not going and talking to his mom about me, not choosing his sisters bday party over mine if things can’t be worked out. Why would anyone be angry over the other watching a video of Disney when the video will not create any feelings about Disney, whereas in porn you guys definitely have feelings. You guys have favorite actresses, favorite videos. Some can’t even bring themselves to delete their stash. You literally bond with your porn. How can you not see how it’s cheating? That’s what I don’t understand. If you guys agree and do it together, then no it’s not cheating. If you know your so won’t like it and you hide it then yes it’s cheating. If I met a really attractive guy every day for years for coffee, we talked about everything and I made up excuses to be with him, would that be ok? Then I start telling my husband no for sex so I can go meet my friend. When I do have sex with my husband I imagine it’s this friend. I start giving this friend money because he says he needs it. My husband hears things from his friends about me meeting this guy every day. I deny it. I don’t want him to know about my friend. My husband knows something is wrong. He sees that I’m not interested in him. Finally he sees me at coffee with my friend and gets upset. Tells me he can’t handle it because it feels like cheating. I respond that I’ve done nothing wrong and the cycle continues. I just get better at hiding my friendship.

 

We agree! Lol.

 

I don't get this at all. Some view porn as cheating because it evokes deep primal fear responses in the same way real cheating does (because we are evolutionary primed to fear abandonment and sexual competition). If someone called from your child's school, saying they've kept your kid hostage with a gun to it's head, you would be terrified beyond belief. If the child was rescued, and you found out the gun was fake and there was no intent to harm anyone, would you be like "oh then its all fine!" I guess not. You would still want to keep that person accountable.

People in general don't get upset if their partner goes to a restaurant and don't eat at home. Why? Because it doesn't play into our primal fears. The same goes for visiting Disney world. We need to recognize and protect or partners from primal fear, as this phenomenon is something harmful in itself.