2 Questions Regarding MO

1. Yes, if the counter is a reward (positive reinforcement), all the power to you. I find reinforcement in a counter as well, however virtual - a virtual counter leading to acquired virtue. Not a bad deal. But, I'm sure you are doing it for life's reasons as well.
2. MO without porn or fantasy even is still counterintuitive to recovery - since you still program your brain to your own touch and stimulation and self-satisfaction, thus potentially weakening the interaction and the stimulation from the real thing - as some guys develop ED or disinterest with a real partner - or can't O the same.
3. There's nothing wrong with O with partner, generally, as far as this forum subscribes, but it is recommended that you recover first and reboot your brain off of PMO so as to be able to fully, meaningfully, and properly engage with O with a partner, and thus subsequently rewire your brain with correct neuropathways. Get rid of the bad old pathways first, so to speak.

 

Not just ED - but other previously mentioned factors as well. Also, it may be somewhat delusional to imagine a life of permissive M without ever any connected fantasy - you may be binding yourself into a brain-wired addiction to M, an addiction that will eventually get old and seek fantasy (and later porn) without your choice in the matter, as one already M addicted. But sometimes we need to keep crashing and burning before we face and accept the final choice of PMO recovery.

 

Yep. @Amin , also don't forget death grip. You desenzitize your penis as your hand is much more stronger than the tightness of any vagina. So suddenly you have a whole lot to be mindful of. Not fantasizing, and not touching too strong. Sounds like a chore to me.
Oh and also count the energy loss as well! The human body has it's priorities, and generating semen is at the top of the list, right next to digestion. So whenever you lose semen, your body will use up some of your energy to reproduce it. That can sap your strenght, you may feel tired, or can't focus properly for a few hours or a couple of days.

I admit, orgasming feels really good, but if you do it yourself, there will be a price to pay. In the end you may find out that it's too high and it doesn't even worth it.

 

Hi Amin. I think Joe is correct. For most of us here the "reboot" is, if done right, a temporary time, beyond which, no longer addicted to a porn induced dopamine high, we can explore who we are and what we want to be, sexually speaking. I don't think you have had the problem so much as some. I have not studied your posts, but I do go back to post #1, and I did not see reference to Porn Induced Erective Dysfunction or Delayed Ejaculation, two of the big symptoms of the addiction, and the things many guys come here to address. That said, your post does appear in an "addiction" forum, and the fact that porn viewing for you has become a problem can be seen from your counter. Avoiding porn is important to you and that means on some level it was problematic. The point I make in writing is that you should do the reboot "hard mode" for it to be most successful, do the hard 90, not just no porn but also no PMO, no MO, no O. Get your brain rebalanced first then ask whether you wish to put MO back into your lifestyle. Really, I believe, until you do the hard 90 you will have difficulty being honest with yourself about whether you want to keep it in your life, "it" being a dopamine high through artificial sexual stimulation. I know you would probably say you are not using artificial sexual stimulation, but, the reality is, if you are reaching O through any stimulation other than a sexual partner, it is probably, by definition, artificial sexual stimulation. Also, respectfully, unless you are thinking of brewing tea, booking a flight, doing math equations, frying an egg, watching paint peel, etc., you almost certainly are having some sexual thought while MOing, because that is what dopamine is released to. There is nothing healthy about MO, it is not necessary for good health, the only reason we do it is to get a dopamine high, and if you are giving yourself a dopamine high with anything other than a partner, you are perpetuating the problem, not solving. Just my opinion.

Peace.

Will I AM.

PS. Earth Dragon also knows what he is talking about.