P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I‘m currently in my 20th month of a clean hardmode streak and I’m in a pretty wild cycle as well for the moment. There is a lot of existential stress factors that I have to face which would even stress out a normal healthy person but I’m just trying my best to navigate through it.

The voice of „you never going to recover“ is as loud as ever because my mind is living in this reality for so long that a symptom free reality simply seems not possible. But I know that these thought processes are just my brain trying to adapt to the current situation and that recovery is indeed possible. I believe that this summer will be the turning point for my life and that great things lie beyond the next months. I went through so much shit the last few years. I know that this can’t go on forever, yet I’m still trapped in a very vicious cycle for now.

 

Damn, almost the same situation here. 19 months of no PMO. 9 months of hardmode in the beginning. Occasionally sex since then, maybe average of twice a month. No fantasizing, no edging. PAWS symptoms do not ease up, except for depression. And a lot of stress that even a healthy person would be having a hard time to deal with.

 

Yeah I'm two weeks away from 19 months.

 

Has anybody tried Wellbutrin/Bupropion before? It’s a NDRI so it’s a dopamine re uptake inhibitor. I’ve been against psychological medication for my whole life but I’m getting pretty desperate. My life has been downhill the past 4 years or so and I need a way out. I have all the PAWS symptoms despite the fact that I’ve never had a streak longer than 3 weeks. I read a lot about it and it seems as though drug addicts take it to get through PAWS. It’s even used as a medication to quit smoking.

I was thinking about taking it for 3-6 months while I quit PMO then slowly wean off of it after that. I’m also afraid my brain will become dependent on it and not be able to regulate its own dopamine without it but then I think about how much damage I’ve already done to my brain from PMO and how this could help get the dopamine flowing again.

 

I think this really is one of the most important points in quitting an addiction. Seeing what lies underneath it in terms of pain, trauma and stuff, and learning to deal with it in a healthy way. There even is a term in psychotherapy "experiential avoidance" and science shows its negative impact on health. As opposed to mindfulness, for instance in ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy). You are on the right path, my friend. Keep trucking

 

The accumulation of pain is starting to add up. Today is one of the worst days of the reboot for me. My life has been completely and utterly destroyed by this process. Financially, romantically, socially, educationally. I honestly have nothing. And it's not like I'm some hopeless guy: I'm decent looking, smart, creative. Whatever. Not bragging--just trying to show how much this fucking shit can fuck a guy up.

I wish I never said anything optimistic, because now I feel like a fool as I sit here so utterly devastated.

I have no one in my life who understands what I'm enduring, so it's all being done on my lonesome.

The pain I feel today feels just as biting as any other horrible day I've had during this recovery. I'm starting to once again doubt the 2 year recovery timeline. I just don't see how I'll be "normal" in 4 months, considering how shitty I feel.

When things get this bad it usually means brighter stuff is on the way, but Jesus fucking Christ. I just don't know what to say.

I feel like a lot of people downplay just how awful the symptoms are. The words "anxiety" and "depression" are such blanket, cliche, dumb ways to truly express what's happening to me. I honestly feel alone in the severity of pain that I experience. The only word I can think of is "darkness". I just feel dark. Like I'm in the same realm as all of the other true evil in this world. I'm mean, angry, resentful, bitter, fearful of death, sad, scared, foggy, out-of-sync, pitiful, embarrassed, ashamed.

PAWs interacts with our distinct personalities, and that leaves me with my own unique symptoms. But that just makes me feel more alone. Because I never read about the same kind of darkness that I sometimes experience. I mean, when I'm at my worst, I'm punching walls, throwing random objects as hard as I can, screaming at the top of my lungs. It's no joke. It's the kind of shit that is used to add texture to nut jobs in movies. Characterization of psychos. I really get dark. I really get crazy. I lose control of my thoughts. I hallucinate evil things. I woke up last night thinking a rat had just bitten my hand. But it wasn't a dream, it was this weird real-life imagery that I could have sworn was happening to me in the moment. And I recoiled in real time and almost fell off of my bed. And that wasn't the first time. truly terrifying shit. Nothing is scarier than losing control of your own thoughts.

I'm an emotional, intuitive kind of person, so it makes sense that the symptoms would hit me in those areas. But god damn, nothing is more alienating then experiencing the above. I truly feel as if I have no peers when I'm enduring those moments.

Also: one thing about this society that I can't fucking stand is when I make myself vulnerable to others I usually pay for it. If I get as honest as I'm being right now I end up feeling exploited by those I'm honest to. Everyone is always trying to give advice, or to "fix" things. With this shit, there is literally no actions I could take that would "fix" anything. I just have to wait it out (another societal faux pas--not doing anything productive). To others, I'm lazy and moody. I'm a 29 year old failure.

I'm so tired of feeling powerless man. The waiting just fucking blows. I want to be able to be in charge of my mood. I want to have some motherfucking agency.

And before someone says it, no, I'm not going to start working out more. Or meditating. Or whatever. No matter what I do, when I'm like this, I'm going to feel terrible.

I know I'm throwing a pity party but I don't care. I have nowhere else to go. This shit is just insane, and I need to get it out somewhere.

I think the reason that my symptoms are so severe is because of kindling. Kindling is pure evil. It can really wreck your shit. Now I understand the Wiki article that exclaims it can cause seizures and/or death. Of course porn relapse isn't going to cause death. That's dramatic as shit, and it's not what I'm trying to say. My point is that kindling can be really, really devastating. It has turned this bothersome addiction into a fucking full blown crisis of existence. I'm not kidding. It's fucking unreal how much it has devastated my life. I measure success by how well I perform in video games. I'm, obviously, still very much hindered by this stuff.

Whatever the case, all I can do is keep living. I guess the kindling kind of PAWs was the only way I was going to quit porn for good. As I said, better days are ahead, but Jesus I'm in the thick of it right now. And now I'm convinced that I'm going have to return to this state in the future. I thought that time would lessen the severity of the darkness, but it feels just as dark as ever.

Once again, I apologize for the pity-party, but what can I do. I need to get all of this off of my chest somehow.

 

Oh buddy. I'm currently going through some of the toughest shit I have to battle through all my progress long. I can't even pinpoint what exact symptom currently is hitting me. It is a combination of extremely strong anedonia, depression to a really heavy degree, cognitive impairments maxed out and having no energy most of the day. All those symptoms are focused in a single feeling or emotion that I could only describe as absolute hell on earth. It's like the complete opposite of a happy life. Everything that is included in a happy being is reversed and put into my body and mind. I can't describe it any better. I have the craziest mood swings - wait, I cant even call them mood swings, it's like my whole being transforms in intervals of 5 minutes. From hell on earth to somehow feeling peace for 30 seconds and then back to hell. This is going on for about an hour until I am so exhausted that my being simply sticks to hell. @zander13 I really feel you mate and it's crazy that we feel this bad after such a long time of abstinence but for one thing I am sure. I am going through this path to the bitter end and as for my state of mind right now - I think we will recover in the upcoming summer, although everything inside me points to the fact that this indeed will not happen. But the similarity of this process and how others felt like at 20 months tells me that we aren't so special in our progress as we think. Just keep grinding mate, I'm with you mate.

 

As for the record, guys, I am right beside you. Nobody will ever be able to grasp the extent of misery one has to endure when going through this if he doesn't experience PAWS himself. So I do. And it is pure hell on earth. I can relate so very much, guys. I know this is not really the kind of comfort one might seek. But maybe it helps to know that you are not alone in the world with this.

 

Damn man. You're going to make me cry.

Thank you so so much.

Seriously.

 

I think I get what you're going through. The last few months I've had problems I've never experienced before that I can only describe as "hellish". I've had moments where it almost feels like there are voices in my head and images behind my eyes I can't get rid of, that my imagination has conjured up purely for torture. I have feared for my sanity, and I know it's not over yet, but I'm also seeing some glimmers of improvement, so am hopeful that things are starting to turn around.

From what I've experienced, I do wonder about the sort of old-school psychiatrists (or whoever) who used to blame masturbation for schizophrenia and other full-on mental illnesses - maybe they were right; and also the role of excessive sexual stimulation in all mental health problems. I'm not saying that it is solely to blame for all (or even any) specific mental health problem, but it certainly adds to the mental / emotional strain that the brain / mind have to deal with. We're at the extreme end of the scale I guess.

This isn't a pity-party - it's about surviving in very psychically challenging times that no-one has ever had to deal with until maybe 10 years ago - I mean not even close, and everyone here is having to figure it out for themselves, with a little help from others here on this thread. All I can say is hang in there, and that you're not alone.

 

I have no idea where I am at in recovery, but coming off the back of a month long of tinder/sex apps/edging and sex. Im back to normal now - mindstate, outlook, sobriety, my symptoms are kinda consistent at a level that marks around the 1 year mark. I have definitely made recovery progress over the past 2 years, and I have come close to healing, for some reason the closer I get to healing and feeling better, the more crazy and riskier I become, I really am a crazy dude.

One of the problems is, all my friends are highly sexualized, my flatmate had an orgy over the weekend for example. However, the interesting thing I noticed between me and everyone I know, is they never fantasize and rarely watch porn, either they are having sex or going to an orgy, or they don't want to think about it. I was always the inverse, loved thinking about it and fantsizing and I had to be high or drunk to act out. All my highly sex friends who have 0 suffering are the inverse - if your not going to do it, don't think about it or talk about it.

I bet most people on this thread are INTP/ENTP/ENFP/INFP personality types in regards to jungian psychology. I can tell by the way people write in such logical thought out posts. We however are deep thinkers (jung/einstien are INTP), and it means we have active imaginations, and are far removed from the real world, it's inherent in our pysche

 

Yeah for what its worth, think I mentioned previously, I've told everyone at work and all friends. Watching porn regularly is dangerous, and doing it compulsively will send you to hell

There is more to it though, plenty of people have a healthy relationship to porn and sex, as in it's not compulsive. And it's not even the type of porn or sex, I know people who have barely watched porn, have 0 physiological symptoms of any kind, and goto sex parties, gangbangs, orgies 5-6x a year. Its almost like x phenomenon in itself isn't the problem, but how we relate to it, how much we think about it, how much importance we give it, over how long. Perhaps some x phenomenon is inherently more likely to lead to an unhealthy relationship, but it's definitely correlative and not causative

The biggest gain I've made recently is not demonizing sex, masturbation and porn within myself. In the beginning a relapse and symptoms were so bad and dangerous I had to really villainize it. Whereas after my last relapse Im no longer scared, nor demonize it the same. It's just honestly not something that my brain likes to give as much importance to, I am completely indifferent to masturbation and orgasm at this point in my life. The sex party fantasizes or good looking girl or model is the only part that catches me now, and that is a whole fugazzi too.

What will be interesting in the future is to see if any those further down the path ever manage to integrate sexuality into their lives in a normal, healthy way.

 

Hey guys, do any of you have social anxiety as a withdrawal symptom? I was not socially anxious before weed and PMO, and i have dealt with it for 4 years now and it has single handedly destroyed my life. The anhedonia also sucks but social anxiety is hell. Cant even go anywhere without feeling below every human being in the world.

 

Yes social anxiety was by far the biggest issue for me, it started as soon as I started NoFap from the beginning, and was terrible on my first real streak, couldn't even goto the hairdressers or see family/friends without panic attack.

It still exists for me, as in I wouldnt want to have to give a presentation tomorrow, but it is completely manageable at this point, can feel a little shaky or nervous sometimes in meetings or meeting new people, but no where near the sheer uncontrollable panic in the beginning 1 year, that was really tough

 

Im a pretty eccentric character so it wasn't really hard for me to do it, Im super open and honest. Im similar to Russel brand in character or someone like that I guess

 

Yes, social anxiety has been perhaps one of my biggest issue in all the withdrawals I faced. At 02 years mark, I am still facing it severely but not to the point of extreme panic. But I am still wayyyyy off normal as compared to how I used to be socially. For me, social anxiety was not an issue until I was addicted. It all started after I left porn and through social anxiety I found out that I am actually going through withdrawals. And believe me, it wasn't any normal social anxiety that I ever felt and that too sitting among my very close friends in a very comfortable environment. And when that started happening on regular basis, I found out about PAWS.

I also had severe issue in making eye contact in the beginning. Its better now. Another issue is head pressure while socializing. And this has not improved until now still. People who have experienced this will know exactly what I am talking about. It is as if simple exchange of sentences is just too much processing for your brain to handle. And when that happens, your ability to communicate with anyone cease to exist. Brain fog and memory failure then follows concluded at panic attack and fight/flight response. This is just a very brief summary. Social anxiety is really a killer in many ways.

 

Intersting, thanks for sharing. I have been rebooting for quite some time, some symptoms are better. But social anxiety is still insane and its holding me back. Its not even something i can control with my thoughts anymore, its pretty fucked up. anyways i hope time and therapy can help it go back to normal again.

 

Careful with that movie. I was watching it once on TCM up until there was nudity shown.

 

I agree that social anxiety is an issue which all PMO addicts face.And it's one of withdrawal symptoms. I think that's what we all have trained our brains to do-unsocialize over the years.By watching Porn or masturbation we have been alone.Avoided all contacts,looked for empty spaces,timings when nobody is around us to M or watch P.And it's a learned habit over the years to be alone,not socialize.Now over the years ,our brains are habitual of this .unfortunately it makes us unsocial which is exact opposite to what a human should be and it gives other symptoms like anxiety,depression ,low self esteem and so on.These are due to our own practice which had made our minds work and behave like that.

Socially I'm good.Still I meet friends,do meetings and eye contact have never been a problem.Yes when 2-3 years back when I was regular on PO then I was not meeting anyone,not talking and just wasting time on screen,so that time when I'm meeting someone after a while I used to feel awkward but it gets better as we start taking and make eye contacts.Main problem which I have faced is making continuity in talks.that happened coz of brain fog and lack of concentration.means I know what to speak about but words would not come out as if I'm getting no words what I want to speak about but I know what to speak .but now it's much better.

It's best if we don't think much about withdrawals just carry on and keep doing what should be normal and after a while things get normal.We have given so much time and energy to train our brains for all those years and in same manner we have to give efforts in opposite direction to unlearn and relearn and rewire things to normal.it needs great efforts.PMO effects are not limited ,it gives wide range of severe effects on our mind a body.Just by doing PMO we are missing -time,energy,socialization,missing eye contacts,bonding with family and friends,talk less,avoid going to public,develop anxiety due to all this.Then get panick attacks.get PIED,get fatigue ,lost many previous moments which we would have enjoyed and learnt so many things and stuffs.But all we wasted over the years and its impact are deeper.so deeper will be our recovery.The more we PMOed ,the longer is reboot.

I'm much better when I used to be earlier on this and learnt a lot how to deal with these symptoms.Being aware and conscious to what I'm doing helps a lot.

 

I guess only time and consistency in excercise and diet will fix us. I seriously can't aim at anything in life. A day I'm good, another I'm shit as hell. Insomnia, erections after about 4 hours of sleep for some reason which ends up being painful at times and keeps waking me up. Got to have a surgery because of anal spasm. Correct all vitamin deficiencies. Can't go outside much because of covid apocalypse here in India. The government has left for people to find their own way. It would be probably next year end that this shit gets over. I can't keep even a normal relation with my female friends. My nerves tingle and there's precum. Barely talk to anyone. Fuck I deserve this! I guess I'll just bear it from now on. What's the point of complaining if it ain't helping? I'll just simplify the process. If it works, good. If it doesn't, bear it.