P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Congrats man, happy for you! It certainly does work it just takes a long time.

 

Hi Guys,

I have been following the journal of a heavily addicted rebooter over on reddit, and he recently announced that he is cured from PIED after 4 Years solid recovery. This is one of, if not the most severe case I have read about. His addiction spanned over 20 years, but what makes it a good read is that he speaks on his recovery from PAWS, providing a regular update on his recovery from it.

I think it is definitely worth reading through his posts, there are a lot of gems in regards to recovery.

https://www.reddit.com/user/NOFAPSuccess2018/

 

hi guys maybe someone will remember me Honestly i think i am the most extreme case at least on the internet maybe someone will remember that i already said i went to flatline zero libido now 7 years ago, after a circumcision surgery in which i don't I could masturbate due to the surgery and after a couple of days my penis shriveled (I already had erection problems before as I masturbated 4-5 times a day and only aroused to the most extreme porn). and I didn't put any more weight on it and continued with regular orgasms everyday for 6 years practically orgasming with a flaccid penis (I thought maybe I'm desensitized by porn and circumcision but there shouldn't be any problems with a woman) .This for 6 years. I have now completed 7 months of hardmode with only 3 orgasms including 2 from wet dreams).
I still have a shrunk penis and only on one occasion did I feel really alive over there ie on the train sitting next to an unknown girl. I think there are people over there who stay flatline for years WITHOUT KNOWING it until they realize they didn't have penis shrinkage before (I found out with a prostitute) These people how long it takes to heal if they've had a lot of orgasms everydays for years in flatline?

 

I've been flatlined for three and a half years now so I know that feeling. I don't think it helps to see yourself as the worst case on the internet though, even if it feels that way. What happened to you sounds similar to my case, just without the circumcision. I was doing a few short nofap streaks(1-4 days) as that was all I could manage until one time I binged after one of them and my libido basically shut down overnight. Most guys who start nofap fall into a short flatline but in the majority of cases relapsing takes them out of it and back to their previous state, with me however relapses just sent me even deeper into it. I expect to come out of this within about the next 50 days though but I'm really not looking forward to feeling all horned up again, I'd happily trade that in exchange for being free of all the other symptoms.

I agree that a lot of guys on nofap are probably in a flatline and don't even realise it, many of them are mistaking wanting to look at porn for horniness. You said you've had three orgasms with two of those being wet dreams(personally I don't count them), what was the other one? As for how long it's going to take, no one can really know. For some it's three months, for others it's seemingly closer to three years. Some weed addicts have even reported coming out of PAWS after four years. The common theme amongst them is that it all happens rather quickly as if a switch has been flicked.

By the way, I hope no one was on here last night when someone decided to spam porn in this thread(as well as others).

 

I got some porn pics spam in my inbox 3 or 4 weeks ago by a user(forgot the name). I was going to report it but didn't. I think those pics got deleted as I don't see the messages no more.

 

the other orgasm was on December 2nd after playing with the nipples I wanted to see out of curiosity what was happening as circumcision made my penis a little numb to touch and my nipples are the most sensitive area..and baaam orgasm in less than 20 seconds.

 

want to mention that I have no other symptoms except dead libido and a slight anhedonia

 

Yeah so close to 90 days I ended up relapsing again to sex apps, sex and MO. A facebook post triggered me, and then one harmless look at one hot girl led to another, before I know it Im drinking and installing tinder, this was two weeks ago.

It just seems insane that can't get a grip of sexuality, I've done so many 90+ day streaks, so many 30+ day streaks, and its like its had no effect or even a negative effect on me lol

 

For all the guys who have ~2+ years under their belt (of abstinence from porn), do we know how sex (and the mere act of engaging with a woman and being in her presence) affects things? Does anyone believe that it speeds things up, or do we gotta put in the required, personalized amount of time no matter what?

I'm about to hit 31 months pretty soon and would really like to know how much emphasis I should put on dating. A large part of me says that I should heal up through time, start re-engaging with my passions, and go out into the world in order to further pursue said passions. Finding a woman will then occur somewhere in that timeline, and it will be a fairly organic process. This part of me also thinks that forcing something in the name of rewiring is a bad idea because I'm not really whole yet, and I'll be making decisions that aren't based on a healthy Self.

The other part of me thinks that dating will be good in that it'll force me to be in the presence of a woman in that type of environment, and through living in that realm my brain will be kickstarted. Sex, in this frame of mind, will serve as a defibrillator to my libido and to my brain's ability to connect with the world around me (I see PAWs as a disconnection to the world around me). I've seen this theory get mentioned enough that I think it is worth exploring. This is where I'd love for guys with more experience in this category to chime in. And in detail, if possible.

I don't know though, seems that most of the long term recovery guys got to the finish line without a woman in their lives, so who knows. At the end of the day I'm just grasping for straws because the idea that I'm at month 31 and am still suffering as much as I am is pretty fuckin' hard to fathom. This shit has repeatedly lowered the bar to depths I didn't even know existed.

 

I know this is on a much smaller scale compared to what you're dealing with but my libido came back by itself after a two month clean streak, that was after a year or so of trying and failing with smaller streaks in which libido was totally absent. I didn't attempt to "rewire" with women, it just came back one day. I can't say how that would relate to your case but I personally don't believe in the whole jumpstarting thing, it may work as a temporary fix but I think the problem will still remain. Also I don't know if anyone else experiences this but even when I see attractive women in real life, if I focus on them for too long I feel the after-effects(head pressure/spaced out feeling/disturbed sleep/slight depression), I can imagine these effects would be magnified greatly if I were to become intimate with a girl.

Recently I've become kind of interested in the effects of SSRI use and how they compare to the flatline, the similarities are kind of striking to me and just confirms that this is all due to brain chemistry. PSSD(post-SSRI sexual dysfunction) is essentially the same thing as PIED, the cause may be different but the result is still the same and in many cases this can take a while to resolve itself, I don't think forcing it through sex has worked for many people.

These are just my thoughts and personal experiences though so take them how you will. I'm currently coming up to four months now and still flatlined so that just proves that the effects of relapsing are progressive as two years ago I was much further along on a two month streak than where I find myself now.

 

Yeah man ever since I posted that I've been thinking about it. I went on a long walk with it bouncing around my head.

I came to the conclusion that I want to have sex with somebody I care about. I want to have feelings for them, or at least a gut-level attraction. I don't want to just have sex for the sake of having sex. In other words, I think you're exactly right.

I used to think, actually not that long ago, that I wanted to have sex with a bunch of different women. I think that's the porn-ish side of my brain: the poison that still resides within it.

I picture myself having sex with a stranger and I imagine the moments afterwards. What would I even say? Thank you? Sex is too intimate of an experience for somebody like me. I want the attraction to be natural and organic.

I also think that once I'm "cured", in a sense, that an attraction can occur quite quickly. I have felt snippets of that feeling. If that's the case then I'm not going to be some puritan. But it should all feel natural and instinctive. I cannot let my mind make the decisions. "I need to fuck in order to get better, so I'm going to try and fuck her" is not the right way to go about it. If I let time do its thing then I'll just start living my life, come across women within the context of said life, and let things go from there. Right now I'm not there yet. I'm just going to keep enduring the withdrawals knowing that though I'm still in pain, I've seen enough improvement within the last 2 months to trust that it will, ultimately, get better.

Thanks for the insight and the thoughtful reply.

 

This head pressure thing your speaking about/depression/disturbed sleep is exactly why I feel.

I think Im stuck in a rut i cant get out. Ive asked the question before, but does this mean we can never have sex again? Everytime I go anywhere near it, it looks like porn induced sexual fantasies. But I've abstained for such period nows

Maybe it will literally take a 2 year of 0 relapse streak to get anywhere near normal, I just dont even know if I can be bothered at this point, 3.5 years since starting, this is such madness. 90 days barely touches the sides, and then as soon as any improvement, the temptation to date comes so quick

 

Im just over 4 months in. I dont miss this part of recovery. Seems to be an unending flatline now for me instead of being so up and down in initial recovery. I feel completely emotionless all the dang time now. I pretty much wake up lately not wanting to do anything and simultaneously being bored. I dont even want to watch tv or play video games. Exercise does nothing to improve my mood if not make things worse. My impulsiveness is hard to control and my stress levels are through the roof.

I want to say im in hell. Ive been here more or less for about 6 or 7 years. It sucks and we deserve reward for effort but that doesn't change anything nor does it matter. I will continue to find some way through this because i know that eventually it will be worth it.

 

The head pressure is brutal and it usually accompanies a lot of the other symptoms. However i get this all the time.

I spend a lot of time when im outside sexually objectifying women. Im wondering now what sort of impact it is really having on my recovery. I know it clearly cannot be good and i do try to resist but some days is definitely worse than others. I guess the brain is trying to find that dopamine source from wherever it can but it seems so obsessive and controlling all the time. It will always take my attention from what ever i am doing or who ever i am talking to. The gym is a great example of where this objectification is hard to resist. The funny thing is i don't really want to be doing it in the moment.

 

Same here man. I went to the supermarket 9-10 miles away from my house and all my eyes wanted to do staring at every women behind. Sometimes they seem to look big and small other times. I tried to fight it by playing on my phone .

 

I haven't been active lately, got really busy with life. I am hoping at least someone got out of PAWS??

 

I'm still anxious, foggy, depressed and exhausted pretty much all the time. it's really unbelievably long journey!

 

In my opinion rewiring with somebody through intimacy definitely speeds up the reboot. I do believe we all have a number in terms of recovery, but I myself am convinced that by being intimate with another this number can be decreased. The problem is that it can be risky if your partner isn't supportive of the cause.

I came to this crossroad recently (at around the same recovery time as yourself), and decided to take the risky route of attempting to date. At the time I felt confident in my recovery and noticed I was getting a lot of attention from the opposite sex. One day at the gym, a girl I had spoken to previously asked me if I wanted to go for a drink that night. It was early evening, we both lived locally, so we decided to head home, get changed and meet at a local bar. Without going into too much detail, we ended up staying out till 4am, danced, made new friends, and drunk the bar dry. At the end of the night she ended up back at mine. I have no idea whether it was the alcohol, nerves or a flatline that came on, but my erection was pretty weak. In that moment I also realised I was not prepared to tell her about my situation. We spent the night 'fondling' and in the morning I realised that while I had had a great night, that I am not ready to start dating again. The reality is that I wanted (and still want) the real thing. To be able to have sex with a significant other without the worry of the physical, emotional and mental repercussions.

I think that your original thought process is correct. If you can meet a woman, that you genuinely like and want to get to know - go for it. For me, I think recovery is a perfect time to hunker down on what I want out of life, and focus on that. The reality is that women were around before you started recovery, and will be after your recovery. Maybe focus on creating the life and becoming the man you want to be. Then by the time you are done, you can begin enjoying the fruits of your labour with that special person. As I said before, at this point of recovery it becomes about risk and reward.

Risk: telling somebody about your recovery - being rejected - slowing down your reboot by orgasming
Reward: telling somebody about your recovery - finding a great new relationship - being able to speed up your recovery

 

Has anyone ever tried HRT or test therapy?

 

in my opionion it is a reward reward situation. Because if she rejects you can be sure she is not interested in you as a person. She just wants to be fucked by your muscular body. The problem here, if you are insecure about sexuality during reboot you deviate from her further if she does not show some interest in you as a person. Dump her and search for a new girl instead of wasting your time with such a girl.