P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

does anyone still have trouble with screens (tv, smartphone) ?
as soon as I stay in front of a screen for more than 1 hour, I have horrible sensations in my brain. it's like my brain is compressed and numb. I've been free from pmo for more than 3 years

 

I used to have this earlier in my reboot. After around an hour or so I would have a strange but uncomfortable sensation in my brain. It was like a mini migraine that effected my eyes too. Up until you just mentioned it I forgot all about it. As time passes the time you can spend in front of a screen will gradually increase until it pretty much disappears. However I would still recommend spending as little time in front of a screen as you can.

 

I am not someone who posts regularly on here, but rather I come and read what has been posted.
Like many of you all here I have been on this journey for a while now, 4. 5 years in total with two long streaks, one 18 month and one 15 month both unfortunately ending with long relapses in between.
For me I found that stress played a major part in having a relapse as well as isolation. (Covid most certainly had a lot to blame for this)

I am now 1 month in to restarting my streak but I cannot quite come to grips with the fact that no matter how hard I try there is something inside of me that is overwhelming powerful and that has the power to make me relapse over and over again.

I find it so scary that the best part of my twenties has been ruined and is passing me by because of some images I starred at daily from a young age.

I know there is no magic pill and that we need to go through this passage but is there any other option to assist us in healing faster? Do we need to make big changes in our lives such as change our environment, or go and see a psychotherapist to help with underlying problems that lead us to the addiction in the first place such as trauma?
I fear that this cycle could potentially be never ending if we don’t change something. It is really admirable what we have all achieved here but it seems that only very few seem to cross the finishing line after all these years

 

Are you talking about healing the addiction or healing from PAWS? I think the answer for each is a little different.

To heal the addiction it takes time but also some inner-work and lifestyle changes. Until you figure out what is making you go back to the addiction, despite knowing the pain it's going to result in, then unfortunately it's very likely that you will find yourself stuck in a never-ending cycle. You need to develop a level of self-worth that will prevent you from going back even when every fibre of your being is telling you otherwise. I also share your fears because I don't know if I'll ever find a healthy outlet for my libido(when it returns) but in the mean time I try and move forward in other areas so that I at least have some other form of forward momentum, rather than just waiting to heal.

As for PAWS, well the most commonly suggested tips for speeding up the reboot are things like good diet, exercise and socialising. Personally I don't see much evidence to suggest that these things actually do help you heal quicker but obviously they are good for your overall wellbeing and will make the journey that little bit easier. I think they are healthy distractions but not much more than that.

The only thing I believe does speed up the recovery process is limiting or staying away completely from all forms of digital media. We all got here because of porn but porn was merely our chosen avenue for what is really the overarching cause of all this - over stimulation of the brain. Porn is at the extreme end of the stimulation scale but all of this mindless web usage adds up as well. I quit all forms of technology for a period of time and I'm telling you, it's like rebooting in fast-forward. I'm on day 100 and something now but I feel I could have achieved the same level of healing in 30-40 days if I'd quit technology too. The only problem is that when your dopamine levels are already low, taking away the little you are still feeding your brain with is extremely difficult and in my experience makes you crave porn even more. As a result I would suggest a compromise of cutting down rather than cutting out, or maybe quit going online but allow yourself to watch a movie or play a video game from time to time or something.

I believe intermittent fasting can also have a similar effect, though I haven't tried it myself. Anything that starves your brain of stimulation and dopamine basically.

 

i pretty much spend my whole life on my laptop reading and studying things - but I dont watch trash things or mindnumbing stuff. When you guys say no screens, what would you be doing all day, just staring at a wall?

 

You can use screens but limit the time you spend on them. Find life and hobbies outside of your 4 walls. Go to the gym, learn how to cook, learn a language, become an artist, travel, meet new people. Basically throw yourself in the deep end.

It’s tough and will feel uncomfortable to start with, however it is worth the struggle.

 

I would like to vent and share my experience as well as my notes within my journey:

I've been into the pmo loop for almost 19.5 years. With average of relapsing once every three days and other times it was thrice per day.

Sometimes I noticed after some relapse the reboot seems tougher or the wothdraws are more. I later linked this to binging.

In late 2020, I had multiple relapses (some were masturbation only but I can tell masturbating to porn (a video or a picture) feels much worse than to imagination) that eventually I caused a very severe symptoms and put me to a new phase of struggle.. paralysis of mental, psychological and physical symtpoms like Disassociation, brain fog, OCD, muscles pain, tension anxiety, social anxiety and GAD, visual snow, can't stare at screens. Sensations in head.

Since then i took a long streaks without a binge in addition to controlling my routine from healthy lifestyle and avoiding stimulants:

-avoding sweets, enough rest, not spending much time on screens, fasting helped alot to reduce anxiety and stress, running, and socializing helped a lot. One of best treatments to GAD and other types of anxiety was exposure therapy.

First streak was 125, then 135 then things got much better, in fact very golden days, but I felt free.. i slipped and edged again:

In this phase i noticed that the sensitised pathways were weak, because when i edged i felt nothing bad towards it, but at one day panic attacks started when i get into porn or porn substitutes with heartbeats or fatigue etc..

My third streak continued till 380 days I think. It was clean with some edges. And I was much much better in terms of stability:

-low to no anxeity.
-no fatigue and aches.
-i was able to use computer screen longer but feeling drained.
-no visual snow.
-no DR/DS
-no headaches and sensations


At times i used to feel not good but not really bad.

Socializing helped a lot.

My last relapse was due to using Instagram again (i stopped using social media since 2019) due to the need to use it as a social platform and for business as well.

But it was a mistake that led me to ruin my one year+ streak.

Then i had 60 days streak where i felt no withdrawals or PAWS.. it was normal.. but i relapsed again and now almost a month done.

This last relapse caused some symptoms to return, as anxiety, fatigue and sensitivity to display screen(which is better now). Some days i feel fine but yesterday was too bad.. reminding me of old bad days.

Yesterday I used the computer for about 5 hours with random gaps, I'm studying IT so I have no other choice.

But then my back, shoulders muscles ached and felt my whole body tired as well. I felt anxious.

It's weird I don't feel such drainage when using a computer at work or with my colleagues. Even after my first two streaks I used to work in office in front of old Dell laptop for hours and i feel nothing except little drainge at the end of the day.

Also I would like to note that when I was on my one year streak I was in a stable mode, I wouldn't be aroused easily and even when edge i was under control. So things were easier.

I feel bad when i can't use social media like Instagram and Twitter are trash but important if i want to socialize for business reasons like being a content creator. It's really challenging.


Notes:
- throughout this journey i say things at all aspects can improve by time. But this needs healthy external factors as routine, rest, exercise and diet and socializing and exposure to fears.

- a relapse after a long streak is not a problem, but more than one is a binge which may bring some or all the old struggle back.

- social media is a big trigger, i thought i can control it as i do with YouTube or browser on my phone. But Instagram and Twitter are coded to make you remember every search you do and suggest you every pornographic material possible after that search (i really belive they mean to make it this way, if you search for nature a lot it takes a lot of time so it becomes suggestive. But porn substitutes will become suggestive with a single search and hard to change it) by every letter you type in the search bar. And this is number one for edging.

- edging is literally a relapse. As you keep edging you will erupt new symptoms like panic attacks, fatigue, prostatitis, disturbed blood pressure and palpitations and others. Also linking sensitised pathways with non sexual things like a chat app.

- I think chatting with stranger girls online even nonsexually may stimulates you even when you are not aware about it. Because it brings symptoms as the above point. So reduce that.

Here is a thing I noticed has a link with all our issues:

I think the main thing we deal with is the Stress system in our body. When we edge or relapse we put high stress. Our Cortisol hormone goes very high. Chronic increase induces all the mentioned healthy issues including other possible non reported ones.

In fact I found that digital screens also increase the cortisol in our bodies. Which is why we feel drained and tired. (Eric Berg mentioned that).

And this is why fasting helps, it controls stress and works as anti oxidants.
So we need to work on anti oxidant, resting, and staying away from the unhealthy stimulants and avoiding stress and pmo can be a good formula for a quick recovery.

Also i would like to note that wet dreams drain the body as well. One of symtptoms you may face is frequent wet dreams. So try to control that, how?
-reduce edible things that cause: drinking liquids before sleep, milk before sleep, red meet at evening, sesame at evening, things cause you to blowing like onion, beans.

There is a chinese exercise also reduces it from the 8 berocrades which streches the legs muscles from the back.

By time as you recover, when you get wet dreams you won't feel tired.. things will be normal. And i assume natural sex shall be like that.

- stress caused vitamin defeciency, especially D, and B complex. Low vitamin D urges the symptoms caused. Also check your HB levels. These things are helpful.
................

I am sad that I have to go through this again.. i was happy in my one year streak and was planning for marriage.. now i need to wait..


I hope these points help you guys. Stay hopeful.

 

Audio only podcasts, radio, terrestrial TV.

 

It's been awhile since I've logged on to this site. There is good news, I wanted to share.

First I can say that I'm 100% fixed without a shadow of a doubt. Before I took a break from this site I was maintaining a journal chronicling my acupuncture and herbal treatment. I had done some research on adaptogens which are herbs/mushrooms that restore the endocrine system without having side effects.

After realizing the herbal treatment was much more effective than the acupuncture, I decided to stop seeing the practitioner and did my own research on various adaptogens. After some trial and error I discovered that black maca root capsules were the key to my full recovery.

Maca root is unique in that it is the only adaptogen that is also a vegetable. Not only is it a vegetable, it is a superfood absolutely rich in vitamins, minerals, and nutrients. I found the strongest brand from a reputable source which sells in a quantity of 180 capsules (three months). On Amazon it cost me about $35 for the bottle. I take one every morning while I'm having my coffee.

It has completely restored my sexuality and vitality. My plan is to continue taking one every morning as a supplement for the rest of my life. As I mentioned it has adaptogenic properties (nourishes the endocrine system), it's rich in nutrients, and black maca is specifically used for male libido (red is for females, yellow for general vitality). It complements my disciplined lifestyle of quality food, sleep, and exercise quite nicely. I just turned 44 years old recently and I feel the maca combined with a holistically clean lifestyle will keep me at peak vitality as I continue into middle age and eventually old age.

It took a while but I finally healed myself and in the process I managed to unlock a life hack. If anybody has any questions about this stuff then definitely feel free to ask. Otherwise I am completely done here.

 

Congratulations Grateful, I know it’s been nothing short of a long journey for you.

I took a quick read of the maca root benefits and the benefits that stood out to me were a) it helps the body manage stress (by keeping cortisol levels low) b) provides an increase in libido.

Do you mind giving detail on the progress you made. What exactly were the symptoms you were trying to recover from? I think your last post was in relation to having casual sex to help recover (I could be wrong).

 

Besides the fluctuating libido, the major symptoms were fatigue and brain fog which are completely gone now.

I started a new job six months ago and after lunch my head would be bobbing back and forth. This led me to seek alternative treatments as I didn't want the fatigue to affect my performance at a new company.

While doing online research I learned about adaptogens and how they are supposed to treat an imbalanced endocrine system without being invasive. I truly think that long term rebooters are suffering from adrenal fatigue. Masturbation addiction can lead to adrenal fatigue, in my case it was compounded by alcoholism and PTSD from an abusive childhood. Healthy habits were leading to my very slow improvement, this black maca has turbo boosted my recovery.

All in all, this has become part of my morning routine and I see no reason to discontinue using it. I wanted to pass this information along in case it would be of interest to others.

 

You mention alcoholism and PTSD, things I have and sometimes still do struggle with. I would be interested to hear how you feel alcohol affected your reboot (if it did?). I have had to cut out alcohol totally to fully recover as it seems to prolong recovery. Not sure if this is the case for you.

Ny final question is: any idea how long you have been taking black maca root for? In other words, how long has it taken for you to reach 100%.

 

Just about to step out the door so I wanted to respond real quick...

I was an end stage alcoholic, currently I'm at over 5 1/2 years of sobriety. The first two years of sobriety were complete hell as I was going through full blown PAWS. I didn't find out about nofap until I already had been clean for 2 1/2 years. I'm not sure if this answers your question as I got sober years before the reboot.

When I started seeing the practitioner he gave me kidney tonic which I took for three months. Then I switched over to maca (didn't specify which color so I assume it was yellow maca) and started with a low dosage and gradually increased. Found out about this brand of black maca (30g equivalent in one capsule) so I ramped my intake to 30g before switching to black maca. The difference was noticeable after taking black maca for just two days (this stuff is potent). I've been on the black maca for one month now and feel amazing.

The difference after taking black maca after only a few days was undeniable, it's like I found the fountain of youth.

 

Hi,

Would you mind sharing the brand of black maca, or give any pointers on what to look for in terms of quality and effectiveness or particular supplements?

 

I'll start with the disclaimer that I am not a doctor nor do I endorse any products. Also I want to point out that I do not have a financial stake in any supplement company, so my intent is not to help line my pockets. I'm just a dude sharing his story. Mods, if there is a problem with this post please let me know.

The brand that I'm using is Mother Nature Organics, 30,000mg black maca in a quantity of 180 capsules. It is the strongest version on the market, by a reputable company, and with many positive reviews which is why I selected this particular brand. As mentioned above I started with a smaller dosage and worked my way up before switching to this brand and there were side effects as my body was getting used to it. There was slight nausea, stomach cramps, gas, and aggression. The side effects have subsided now that my body is used to the steady intake.

Beyond that, my intent is not to specifically endorse this particular brand or black maca itself. I want to raise awareness for adaptogens as a healing tool for long term rebooters. I was waiting years to get better and then spent a considerable amount of time and money doing research and experimenting before I found something that has worked for me. This is not a complaint as time and money invested into my health and wellbeing is the best investment I could possibly make.

Prior to this I had never heard of adaptogens and didn't have a clue about what they were or how they worked. Since I've already done the legwork I want to raise awareness for those here who are stuck in their recovery. You don't have to take my word for it, simply google "how do adaptogens work" or "which adaptogens are best for low libido" and see if you think it might be right for you.

After doing my own research I gravitated towards the black maca because it's recommended for males and also because maca is a superfood. If nothing else my morning capsule is still providing me with a ton of nutrients. It works for me and I'm happy.

 

I don’t find it surprising that if alcohol and drugs can cause paws then orgasm can.

orgasm is the single most pleasent feeling I’ve ever experienced - even if it is just a few seconds.

I have used alcohol and drugs and nothing felt as good as those few seconds of release.

now drugs or alcohol fail to bring me much pleasure. Even orgasm when I last did it just felt like a release of pressure.

im at day 104 hardmode this time around and currently floating between getting by depressed to being suicidal.

 

Totally agree with you, the pleasure of porn and orgasm combined is some of the best i have ever experienced, but its very short lasted obviously. I orgasmed 5 times a day for many years, no wonder my brain is fucked. Im on day 147 and i feel the same as you, very depressed lately, cant get myself to apply for jobs, eating healthy, etc. Im in such a funk at the moment. Been 2-3 weeks since i last had a good day. Keep it up man we are in this together. Sometimes we need to force those good habits and our depression get a little better, but its hard. Im in the process of getting my diet and sleep schedulue back on point again, i found that helped a bit with the depression. And also meditation.

 

When that is said, im wondering if anyone is down to keep contact and be like a person to talk to going through the same thing? I honestly feel kinda lonely in this whole journey and would love to just check in daily or stuff like that with someone in the same position as me. Hit me up if anyone is down, maybe a discord group?

 

I had weed, then cocaine addictions, also smoking addiction. Porn addiction is much much difference. Because it's based on fundamental drive to reproduce. Quiting substance addiction is peace of cake comparing to porn addiction. Thing is that substance addiction is getting better fast on itself, substance disapiears from blood in days and in several weeks you are empty. Then you left with some psichology addiction which can be easly addressed.
With porn addiction that 'drive' will never go away and it will actually increase. Problem is that we learned to our brain how to 'reproduce' by easy way, no effort at all other then to open browser and jerk. And after years of that pathway when you start to stop, you brain responsible for reproduction doesn't know diference between cuming on monitor or in vagina. And then brain thinks "where all those pussies", you have disbalanced your brain so much that threshold of expectation how much you can reproduce is high and now you have none, or one girlfriend or at best few per week ( if you very good with woman). You will be living with that void for years, I assume at least 5 years. But problem not a void. Problem that most men watching porn had not learned way how to interact in healthy way with woman. At the end you left with huge voide and huge drive/threshold and now you don't know how to succeed. People on nofap should concentrate on principles how to have great relationships, it might take 5 years. I think everyone who watch porn a lot and having problems (while for all of men it's no beneficial) have little to no relationship understanding neither skill for it.

 

I am pretty much the same right now. I believe im hitting that part where the recovery starts to become repetitive. For me that has always been from 3 months onwards. Im like you where right now im struggling with motivation, fatigue, high stress, anxiety and so on. Right now im doing the bare minimum in terms of my work and taking care of myself. Im at 76 days and the sad part is i know when im at your stage in recovery much will be the same. Thankfully ive somewhat come to terms with the length of my own recovery at this stage (as long as there are no relapses). Im just looking forward to next year, keeping focused on a relapse free life and knowing that there will be good days to come, even if they are few and far between.

I will note that since quitting caffeine about 3 months ago it has made this process easier. Wet dreams occur a LOT less often and i haven't woken up during the middle of the night to huge urges since ive quit caffeine. This is what was causing relapse for me on long streaks and has been my downfall all year. During a long streak i don't usually have problems being PMO free. I've also noted a lot more vivid dreams since quitting caffeine. I believe now that my caffeine use had significantly hindered my progress and made it harder to not relapse.