Fantasy

the demons aren't a metaphor, see you are coming at it from the atheist perspective you've been taught (by demons) since birth. It's so ingrained you aren't even self aware of your own assumptions you are starting from. True, these DEMONS that you think are just human beings like you and me and just don't know any better, are really real and in charge and there's nothing supernatural about them.

I've been to strip clubs a few times and it's amazing that I've heard the same story 3 times, of the maybe 10 strippers I've talked to, they give them a big bag of money to take to someone, then one of them goes and steals teh bag of money out of their locker and then they are forced to pay it off. holy shit, what a bunch of super creeps, and you excuse them for it, that's pretty heroic. I don't think you understand what sort of super evil creeps you are dealing with an blaming yourself for. of course, they control the media so they want to create a positive image of themselves. Demons are create liars and decievers.

 

yes. I have read that something like 85% of erotic dancers were sexually molested or had abusive fathers as children.

 

i read a story once about the bears they would farm for their bile in China. They would just lay there with a tube stuck into their gall bladder sucking their bile out. Horrific. one of them was actually pregnant and gave birth. She killed her own baby and then in fit of mad grief ran full speed into the wall of her cage and killed herself. must we wait til we are at that point before we rebel?

 

more like they love money and will do anything to get it.

 

Leeuwenhoek a lot of them are tortured miserable souls - in the grasp of evil. Remember Mary Magdalene was also....
• Between 66-90% of women in the sex industry were sexually abused as children.
• Compared to the general population, women in the sex industry experience higher rates of:
Substance Abuse Issues, Rape and Violent Assault, Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Domestic Violence, Depression, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder & Dissociative Identity Disorder
http://www.beautyfromashes.org/cont...pageguid=3293b02d-f447-4afe-a0be-f120fc8471b4

 

Is fantasizing ever healthy? or are the healthy fantasies - or 'visions' or 'dreams' with which we can replace out destructive ones.

For example instead of x fetish fantasy, i 'dream ' about holding hands with a beautiful woman who i am out on a date with?
here's a post at yourbrainonporn called a 'soothing fantasy' :
http://yourbrainonporn.com/soothing-fantasy

here's some stuff about fantasizing in general :
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-about-fantasizing-during-reboot

 

Thanks for sharing you insights. I'm only still making my own experiences with fantasy and your posts here seem very helpful.

That feels about right. Being too hard on myself, I would "punish" me for something out of my control. But being too permissive would defeat the whole purpose of reboot.

 

I just relapsed after 97 days - the fantasizing was a festering virus that finally exploded into fapping.
i wish i had read this thread day 1, but I am picking up the pieces again and the principles in this thread are going to be a key part of my reboot.
If the fantasies are still there the problem is still there.

 

Fantasizing is a very tough nut to crack, but one thing i am finding helpful is a hand written journal. It really helps you focus. I write out the fantasy in generic , almost medical terms, analyzing, say why I think i have it and refute it if necessary (if i feel its a harmful fantasy) this can also be helpful for writing out positive fantasies - ones which are motivators to act in the real world in a productive way.

 

I really thought as if you were talking about me. Fantasy has impacted the way I saw people. I always felt guilty and it was difficult to even make eye contact. No more fantasies from now on. Thanks for giving a better understanding on it.

 

Wise decision mate

 

I hope I am not outside the topic here, but I have a question about Parlovs dog if you can relate. You have conditioned him to drawling to the bell, but what if you ten times in a row trow a bucket of ice-water on the dog after ringing the bell ? That should reprogram it quite easy ore ? Not giving the dog the food, will probably take 10 times longer to stop the behavior. So Ice bucket challenge ish ?

 

Ohhh, I would love to give my PA SO a cold hosing down, but I do not believe he is going to tell me he is slipping. Unfortunately I think you are right in the difficulties to shock yourself in public
I have already conditioned my cat to vanish with me reaching for my water-gun when he closing in on the bird feeder, and everybody told me you can not train a cat. I only had to hit twice before he got the message.
Somehow I think it could lessen the cravings, so the problem is to implement it in all surroundings.
I am not into giving pain, just as it does not give a cat pain with a small watergun, it is the snapping the mind out of a state you do not want. When the phone rings and you are in middle of something. An alarm going of on a parking lot.

 

Interesting thought. I'm skeptical about the idea of conditioning oneself in such a way. If there was another person whose behaviour I want to change, your logic applies. Actually treating someone according to this scheme would be called inhumane. Treating yourself in that way, doesn't sound to me like a good idea either.
Let's say it actually works and by punishing yourself you can get rid of fantasizing: I would still wonder if it's worth it. Because ... well ... inflicting pain on myself is something negative. If I regularly inflict pain on myself, I'd call that destructive (regardless of the theory behind it) and thus a behaviour that I want to get rid of.

Therefore I think there must be some sort of "healthy" way to get rid of things like fantasy, something that doesn't rely on this slightly schizophrenic idea of one person inside my head conditioning another person in my head.

I'm looking for another way here: I want to understand what's going on and therefore try to have a good model of myself and my thoughts, i.e. why I'm thinking and doing certain thinks that are not in accordance with my goals.
I want to become clear about my actual goals and draw a distinction between things I sometimes do and things that I actually want to do.
I want to stop this divergence and eventually reconcile my goals with my actual behaviour. This sometimes involves changing my goals - I don't want to put too much pressure on myself - and this certainly means trying out new habits.

Concretely, about the fantasizing, I'm looking for a solution in my state of mind. I'm usually fantasizing badly when I'm in a bad state, e.g. when I'm tired, overworked, depressed, alone, withdrawn and so on. The good news is, I don't want to be tired, overworked, depressed, alone, and withdrawn anyway so, once I can improve there, the fantasizing will probably vanish as well.
Imagine the alternative where I conditioned myself to stop fantasizing but I'm still tired, overworked, depressed, alone or withdrawn ... That doesn't sound like I would have won that much at all.

 

I am reading "brain lock" about OCDs and many people who, for example, tried the 'rubber band snap' just ended up with sore wrists..i know fantasy is NOT OCD, but the model for purging unwanted thoughts may help:
Step 1: Relabel
Step 2: Reattribute
Step 3: Refocus
Step 4: Revalue

 

But.... What if you made him fear the bird feeder?

The way to make any change stick is change your subconscious, so that you don't have to fight it.. However you do it, the only way you make any real lasting change is to reprogram your subconscious

I have experimented with various ways to use Pavlovian conditioning. Both rewards and pain.

It doesn't always have to be a sudden reward or sudden pain. I use a bit of a combination of pain avoidance and the promise of reward.

On the pain side, I ponder frequently about all that PMO has cost, what it will cost, all the negative effects. This is kind of like constantly thinking about how smoking can lead to lung cancer. It gradually sinks into your subconscious so that you fear smoking because of the ill effects. You can train your subconscious to fear smoking, even though you have not yet died from lung cancer.

It is slowly starting to work. I now see a sexy Ad and my automatic instantaneous response is to look away quickly.... I don't even have to try. It doesn't feel like a fight, my subconscious now wants to look away

Now if someone would have tasered to me every time I looked at an ad, that would've worked quicker. But just thinking about it seemed to work, just more slowly.

Anthony Robbins calls this asking pain associating questions. If you have a behavior you want to stop, ask yourself what has this cost me, what will it cost me, and really really think about the answers, think about them a lot

On the reward side… What I do is give myself a random chance for a reward every time I reach a certain milestone. If I go one week without clicking on any sexy ads or news articles, are use random.org to give myself a 20% chance of a new album download. If I go one full week without fantasizing to the point an erection, I give myself a chance for another prize.

And if I go one full month without looking at porn or a porn substitute (sexy YouTube' etc), I give myself a 10% chance for a piece of a large treat. My current one is a 10% chance of earning one quarter of a new dirtbike...... So I need to get that one four times.

 

This post was very useful to me, thanks alot for this. I've noticed that the time after waking up is the most tempting period to fantasize. What I like to do if I notice myself beginning to fantasize about sex/porn is to redirect my thoughts onto something else (ie. things I need to do, visualizing natural landscapes etc.). Otherwise, I'd say just getting out of the house helps alot. Good luck to everyone on the journey.