Why does my SO fight me on every apology?

GG2002 · Jun 4, 2017

I don't know if this is unique to addicts or not . I think In general women are more quick to apologize than men and I've experienced this in prior relationships but never to the extent my SO does and after this weekend I am starting to think this character flaw may be more fatal than the PMO. His standard as to whether he will apologize is whether he thinks he's done something wrong on purpose . Under that standard no one would ever apologize! Most people don't think what they do is wrong or they would not have done it in the first place. And even if I can get him to admit he was wrong which is rare he will only apologize if he sees it as purposeful conduct which again means he's using his own judgment to decide how I deserve to feel. I understand that different people get hurt by different things. He often says well that would not hurt me if you did it, but that's not the point! And I never would do that to him because I know it's hurtful conduct as it hurts me. So I am willing to bet if I did it would hurt him. And I'm pretty easy going . I give in a lot because there are few things that are worth the fight to me. People think that because I'm a lawyer I like to argue but that's not true it's exhausting to do it in my personal life and not worth it. So if I dig my heels in it's once in a blue moon and his actions are always something that he has done before many times and knows they bother me because we have had this same fight 25 times before. So to me at that point it is on purpose because he knows that it bothers me but still does it then says well you should not be upset that's stupid. And it's not like there are 20 things so he can't remember there are 2. One of which is him ignoring my texts and phone calls for hours! And we are talking 8 hours no response and this is when he is "out" with his friends not working because I don't get mad at work. Last night he did it again and still now 24 hours later will not apologize. It's the same play book every time. Everything I do is wrong. I'm a horrible person why are you even with me? Attempts to manipulate. Then when it becomes clearly his behavior is indefensible he starts to say well you did this or you did that. Finally he just refuses to answer . Last night I had had it and I said what is more important to you being right or me? His response was that he would have to think about it and I hung up on him!

He sees apologizing as giving in Or losing. It's like he's keeping some sort of score and we are not a team. It seems that he is trying to almost dominate me or have the upper hand. I asked him what does he get out of not apologizing what is he gaining? Response is that I need to understand he's not wrong. But I don't think that or understand it and all it does is infuriate me. I readily apologize with no problem. I told him the standard is if something you did hurt someone you apologize whether you think you are wrong or not. You hurt someone. You try to understand why they are upset you don't just say I think I'm not wrong so I'm done! He's only 2 months past his lying to me and getting an apology out of him is like extracting an impacted wisdom tooth.

And it's more important to him to be right in his mind and lose me than to admit he's wrong. And I went through each and every time I did apologize in the last week alone so he could see I do.

I just feel like he's working against me against us as a team. He's on his team. I mean if someone you love is hurt you want to fix it . The behavior is extremely selfish and I don't know how he can have any relationship at all. You have to decide what's better for the team. I mean do dudes sit in a room and say yes I won I have the upper hand?

He was like this before he stopped pmo but nothing this bad its like 10 times worse and I'm not sure why! An apology or your relationship and he can't decide? Please ladies and gents help me out here I'm at my wits end.

Chris14 · Jun 4, 2017

Well I have to say I did ignore text and calls when I was PMOing or indulging in any of my other addictions. I did so at work as well and still do but nowhere near the level I did when I didn't want her knowing what I was doing. Now at that time all I would do is defend my self and try to convince her that she was just trying to make her feel like she is the one who is wrong for "micromanaging me". The teams in my mind where me and my addictions vs. everyone who wanted to stop them. It is very must just the addictive brain trying to manipulate the people around it in order to get what it wants. If you truly love someone and you do something along those lines ignoring or anything you know will be hurtful or cause stress the the apology should come before you have to have it pointed out. Now no one is perfect and will miss doing things like that from time to time but when it's brought to there attention they should feel some remorse not need an ultimatum and still not have an apology. You also shouldn't accept and apology if you have to give an ultimatum in order to receive it in the first place because it is not genuine.

GG2002 · Jun 5, 2017

Chris14 said: ↑

Well I have to say I did ignore text and calls when I was PMOing or indulging in any of my other addictions. I did so at work as well and still do but nowhere near the level I did when I didn't want her knowing what I was doing. Now at that time all I would do is defend my self and try to convince her that she was just trying to make her feel like she is the one who is wrong for "micromanaging me". The teams in my mind where me and my addictions vs. everyone who wanted to stop them. It is very must just the addictive brain trying to manipulate the people around it in order to get what it wants. If you truly love someone and you do something along those lines ignoring or anything you know will be hurtful or cause stress the the apology should come before you have to have it pointed out. Now no one is perfect and will miss doing things like that from time to time but when it's brought to there attention they should feel some remorse not need an ultimatum and still not have an apology. You also shouldn't accept and apology if you have to give an ultimatum in order to receive it in the first place because it is not genuine.
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I think you hit the nail on the head in your that when an addict is MIA for the long the SO goes into panic mode. But honestly if you are engaged to someone you should not ignore their texts unless you have a good reason and it should be a once in awhile thing even then. Honestly I'm not sure if he's PMOing or not again. I think the problem may be that he is not but he's angry about it. He said to me I've changed so much for you and it's still not enough. He sees the stopping of pmo as something he did for me not us and so how dare I ask for anything else from him. I think it's part pmo but mostly the fact that whether due to his addiction or who he is he just can't put us first. I don't think he will ever be able to. Correct in the I should not have to demand an apology but he never thinks he is wrong and since that's the standard he uses he won't apologize and he just can't see the other side of it. He said I tell him he everything he does is wrong so I told him the only two things I get upset about are pmo and not texting. Please let me know what the other ones are and his response was well I can't think of any right now! And he still can't understand why I don't just take him at his word because like I said ultimately he does not think it's all that bad and a large part of the reason is he just can't see beyond his own nose. I always start off nicely when I explain his behavior hurts me but he blocks me out. He blocks out anything he does not like. So about the 20th time I get angry. Then he hears me but accuses me of not asking nicely . I cannot express in words how incredibly frustrating that is. It boils down to me that he just can't be in a relationship. He will never be able to. He is so wedding to the idea that he must fight to be right and never give in that he cannot ever bond to another person. Sadly pmo addiction is fixable but this is not.

Chris14 · Jun 5, 2017

Honestly that all sounds like the addiction to me ignoring text, not apologizing, blaming you, saying he has done enough, and needing to prove he is right. That's everything I dido throughout my addiction and into recovery. It's hard to say if he has relapsed or if he is (as the alcoholics call it) a dry drunk. No active addiction but still that unfilled void mentally that caused the addiction that hasn't been treated, understood or even identified. It will be very difficult to live with any addiction that way for the rest of your life. I would suggest therapy and really dig for the root of what started the addiction. Hope I am being helpful without the entire back story.

nofreedom · Jun 6, 2017

That type of behavior can be related to PMO addiction but can also not have anything to do with it. Having to be right, make someone else wrong, not take responsibility (even if something is not done on purpose), dominate or avoid domination, withdrawal, manipulation etc are more common than one can image, we all basically do them in some shape or form. I can say this to you because I did a lot of work on myself to be able to see how much of all of it I did, and on many aspects (not all) they are not even close related to PMO addiction, we all need to work on that basically.

Now if he is not able to apologize to you for something that he did, consciously or not, that is avoiding responsibility and I'm sorry to say that's something that may be even deeper than his PA. He really needs to start working on himself and if he is not willing you are the one who should choose you. It appears to me that he somewhat is blaming you for taking his P away with that behavior.

Deleted Account · Jun 6, 2017

My SO has a hard time apologizing too and it always drove me nuts! Whenever he comes back from not apologizing and tries to start a different or normal convo as if he did nothing I say "oh wait you mean 'I'm sry wife for----?" And prompt him like we do the kids..lol. He will not fight me on it at that point but it is definitely not a reflex for him. He says the same thing that he doesn't apologize if he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Now my ex (I was also engaged) would do things like you described above like it was some sort of game to him and would not "submit" himself like that. He was also a SA and probably a PA as well. I believe he also had borderline personality disorder but he was diagnosed w bipolar. Anyway he would go out w his friend and do the same exact thing to me of not answering calls or text. I found his buddy's car at a strip club one night, walked in and sat across the bar & called him. He took the phone out of his pocket showed his friend, they thought it was funny and laughed then he stuck it back in his pocket. I walked up behind him and smacked him upside his head. I thought that was funny...the bartender did not...lol. He was a cheater too and would avoid me like that whenever he was doing something he shouldn't have been just like others have said.
I would suspect he may still hiding things and PMOing. Just remember not to settle for less than you deserve! If you are not 100% happy and ready to accept him as he is...you should not plan a wedding just yet. Respect has to be mutual and he should understand that he broke your trust and he should be working to restore that trust. Hang in there and do something nice for yourself bc you deserve it!

Bel · Jun 6, 2017

Yeah that bullshit of not answering or not apologizing. ....even my PA knew better. That is about respect on every level and this jerk isn't remotely even giving an ounce of respect.

GG2002 · Jun 7, 2017

Chris14 said: ↑

Honestly that all sounds like the addiction to me ignoring text, not apologizing, blaming you, saying he has done enough, and needing to prove he is right. That's everything I dido throughout my addiction and into recovery. It's hard to say if he has relapsed or if he is (as the alcoholics call it) a dry drunk. No active addiction but still that unfilled void mentally that caused the addiction that hasn't been treated, understood or even identified. It will be very difficult to live with any addiction that way for the rest of your life. I would suggest therapy and really dig for the root of what started the addiction. Hope I am being helpful without the entire back story.
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Thanks. Really you know as much as I do except that if he PMOs at all he can't perform in bed. Even if he did it weeks ago his performance is affected and being that we have sex quite often I could tell. So I am fairly certain he is clean but not happy about it but he won't say that. I think it may be caused by that anger, a battle for control, and some other sort of diagnosis that causes him to be too afraid to admit he was wrong. He actually tunes out what I say as far as anything that he perceives as negative about him or things he does not want to hear making it extremely difficult. Here's a good example. A month after he lied to me he decided he wanted to travel out of the country to visit relatives. At the time our relationship was in peril and he was struggling financially. He never suggested that I go with him but i responded that there was no way I could go with my work schedule and that I did not think it was prudent to spend his money on this, take time off of work (he says he never has the time to take off to vacation with me) and it was not the best idea for him to be away without me at that time. I suggested that he delay and save up the money and we could go together. I should mention these are distant cousins he rarely speaks to and has not seen in five years! I converyed this all to him calmly. He hit the roof and said I was trying to control him . When I was asking him to recount the things I said he did wrong because he alleged they were so plentiful he brought this situation up. I said I never said you did anything wrong I expressed that I was unhappy with what you wanted to do. I never said you were wrong and I was right I just expressed to you how I felt. I did not tell you not to go either. I said do you remember why I did not like the idea? His response was you were just trying to control me and got mad for no reason. I relayed the reasons above and he was genuinely bewildered and did not recall that at all. Which explains why when I nicely ask him to do things even 25 times he just does them again and the only time he hears me is if I scream and flip out. I always say his mantra is me me me I I I. He never uses the word us or thinks of what is best for us. I just think sadly I am now realizing he lacks th ability to have a healthy relationship and that cannot be fixed. I think the pmo was just part of his overall issues not the main one because that he could likely overcome but these types of problems are pretty impossible to fix.

GG2002 · Jun 7, 2017

nofreedom said: ↑

That type of behavior can be related to PMO addiction but can also not have anything to do with it. Having to be right, make someone else wrong, not take responsibility (even if something is not done on purpose), dominate or avoid domination, withdrawal, manipulation etc are more common than one can image, we all basically do them in some shape or form. I can say this to you because I did a lot of work on myself to be able to see how much of all of it I did, and on many aspects (not all) they are not even close related to PMO addiction, we all need to work on that basically.

Now if he is not able to apologize to you for something that he did, consciously or not, that is avoiding responsibility and I'm sorry to say that's something that may be even deeper than his PA. He really needs to start working on himself and if he is not willing you are the one who should choose you. It appears to me that he somewhat is blaming you for taking his P away with that behavior.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I do think he is potentially depressed and I know he has low self esteem. I think that led the pmo but I think the fact that the person he is never allowed him to have healthy relationships and further pushed him to PMO. He's one of those people who says his past relationships were all his exes fault he did nothing wrong. So since he never thinks he does wrong he could never fix himself enough to sustain the relationship so he just thought it was all them. I think his low self esteem does not allow him that I accept responsibility or apologize .

nofreedom · Jun 8, 2017

As you said that's an ongoing behavior for years. Not being able or not wanting to see any flaws on oneself is just crazy. His view is that apologizing or taking responsibility is being weak which truly is quite the opposite.

Kenzi · Jun 8, 2017

OK.... This might sound harsh.
And I'm not going to apologize because I believe in radical honesty.
I also believe you are a good person.
I read alot and I mean ALOT of what you write GG.
here is my opinion.
I was once with a abuser.
Who was depressed.... Because he did not love me. He felt that I was easy.
(here's how I mean)
I fed him, I put a roof over his head because he could count on me to pay the bills. Do the laundry, etc. The list of things that he felt were negative about "us" and I had to be punished for (his own blend) weren't enough to tip the scale to make him leave. For him, the good (what he got from me) was better than the bad (what he had to tolerate (the kids schedules and house rules - this will probably not be the same as you but I'm sure you can see the similar situation)
He told me what he thought I wanted to hear, when I wanted to hear it, enough to appease the situations, especially in front of people.
We were never seen in public together.
And we slept apart also. This was due to the constant S & PA complex that dipped in and out of relationship.
The whole thing was essentially a facade he "made up" so he could live comfortably In peace, parallel to me, where he felt it was a nice niche.... Easy. I looked nice, I kept the rest of life together.... What more does a guy need?
Oh, someone to yell at.
Because I wasn't going to get any answers.
Right.

These days....
(Because I left.)
He's happy. Married again, I ran into him a couple of years ago.....he answered HER call on Ring 1! I can't say I ever remember anything other than voice mail.
You know... I wish him happiness, I do.
I've known him 20+ years and I've never seen him as happy as I did last I saw him.

He doesn't see his kids.

But... You might have to realize that maybe it's you. (I say this because it was me)
Don't punish yourself.
It doesn't make you bad.
It just means he might not think you are a good reason.
You need to be Your own good reason.
Show him you don't care if he thinks you are his definition of worthy anymore.
You know your own worth.
Because in my opinion (and I'm sure many others) ... I think you are worthy woman.
And I think it's about time, you started doing the same.

emily123help · Jun 12, 2017

I agree with jolie, I think you have more worth than hes showing you.
If hes not showing you your number one, is he worth it? I dont know your whole situation, but from what iv just read, he just seems to be selfish and in no way understanding to your feelings or even your communication. Which I believe is a big part of a relationship is when you know your partner understands and communicates about any issue you or he has, it may take them to walk away for a bit to work it out and come to a realization that yea ok I might not feel like im wrong but I understand that she feels like I was and by this it made her upset or angry so il try fix iI and apologize for making her feel this way . Its down to how you deal with him. But I dont think youl get it threw to him.

Deleted Account · Jun 24, 2017

@GG2002,

If I didn't know better, I would swear that I had travelled back in time and you were really my wife talking on this forum about me, because almost everything you say about you SO reminds me of my own behaviour when I was still in the pit of PMO.

You say that your SO is not doing PMO, yet his actions and words sounds exactly like mine before the PMO addict died, and the real me was resurrected.

My heart goes out to you, and breaks when I read the posts of SO's of PMO addicts because I am reminded or made aware of how much pain I caused my SO.

There is always hope, because if this hard-headed, arrogant, self-righteousness, critical idiot was able to change and stop all the things I did to hurt my wife, I have to believe that yours can too. I have asked my wife to join this forum to share her experience with you ladies, but she is reluctant to do so. I will keep nagging her, as I am sure she can give you better insight than I can.

I believe that if you are unhappy with a situation, you must either change it, accept it or get out of it. I am just so glad my wife waited for me to change. In the meantime, I pray that all of you stay strong, and that you SO will change for the better really soon.

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