Prayers For Las Vegas Nevada

The fact that we have a "right" to go out and buy an AR-15 shows how deranged this country is. Maybe if we have a dozen more massacres (we will) then things will start to shift in this country. Perhaps once every single citizen personally knows someone killed in these shootings then we'll finally move forward. I'm not holding my breath, Americans are clearly just fine with wholesale murder all in the name of "freedom".

 

I agree with the "blame the person not the guns" thing to a point, but a van isn't going to kill 50 people and injure 500 others in a matter of minutes, so it's not the same.

I'm not on board with banning all guns either, though, since obviously people will still be able to get them, because criminals don't care about the law. We should, however, make our gun laws more strict and work to get rid of all the many loopholes people can find to get around background checks and such, like gun shows and auctions and such.

 

It's extremely rare that I hear someone seriously suggest we ban all guns. The only time the words "ban all guns" come out of someone's mouth is when a conservative tries to muddy the waters and confuse people. We won't have any new gun control or any new laws put into place because even the most basic change to our gun laws = banning all guns to these people.

 

Of course you wouldn’t accept being called out on how condescending you are. It would make you realize how illegitimate your point actually was. But I guess I should have known that before I decided to waste my time engaging with you. So that’s on me.

 

I agree

 

Perhaps you can give me an example. I also do not understand that if I am indeed condescending that it makes
my point of view illegitimate. Could you explain that, because I am struggling with how that works. Thank you.

 

That is a good point. This seems to be the problem with all political issues. Nobody is willing to accept a middle ground on anything.

I guess my point of view is that I’m not sure what gun reform laws would actually help to stop or even slow down these incidents from happening. I’m not saying it’s ok to have these loopholes for obtaining deadly assault weapons that can mow down dozens of people in seconds or having devices that can convert legal firearms to make them just as deadly. In fact, I’m all for remedying these workarounds immediately. But if killers like these have no problem with mass murder, they will have no problem breaking the laws intended to stop them from doing so. It’s naive to think a person hell bent on killing a bunch of people won’t figure out a way to obtain illegal weapons. The criminals in this country are very resourceful. That’s why I don’t see these massacres and automatically blame the gun laws.

 

In some cases I'm sure this would be true but I think most of these killers are lazy, they're not going to bust their ass trying to get a gun illegally. The reason they do what they do is because all they have to do is go to their local Wal-Mart, slap down some cash, wait a few days and now they've got a weapon of mass destruction.

 

Let’s take a look at Australia, they had a deadly mass shooting back in 1996. After that happened they instituted a ban on rapid fire guns. Since then Australia has not suffered another mass shooting.

 

Agreed

 

First, you don't know. Second, it is somehow a little - just a little! - bit easier to kill 59 people and wound more than 500 with a fully automatic weapon than with a machete. Or even a semiautomatic.

That's because the main purpose of cars and vans is to get Jimmy and family from point A to B. Any other use is a misuse.

On the contrary, the main purpose of guns is to kill. Sure, you might play with them. Shoot them at the range. I have done it before several times, and I've had fun. But let's not forget that they are meant to kill.

Where was the freedom of those people who gathered at a music festival to have a good time , and ended up mowed down by a madman? Their right to safety and protection, that any State worthy of this name should grant its citizens?

I don't suggest banning all guns. Semiautomatic rifles and pistols can stay. But automatic weapons should go. They serve no purpose for civilians.

 

I disagree with the semi automatic part because semi automatics are the problem, we wouldn't have a problem with automatic weapons if we didn't have semi automatics. Why? Because actual automatic weapons are virtually impossible for a normal person to get ahold of but if they're skilled and learn a lot about weapons they can take a legal semi automatic and then turn it into an automatic. So as long as semi automatics are widely available then the potential to turn them into fully automatic weapons is there.

 

I am so sad for you Americans, that such violence is part of your cultural landscape. I agree that guns are not the problem, it’s people. People who think they need guns to have any kind of safety and order in society. I live in Australia, and gun reform has been enormously effective here in preventing mass shootings. We still have crimes, murders, and yes, criminals still carry guns, but they are so much harder and more expensive to get because of the illegality of them that that, in itself, is another barrier to them being used to harm great numbers of people.

I belong to international babywearing groups, and Americans, you are scary. Hearing about women who carry concealed while carrying their babies to the shops in case someone tries to snatch the infant - what kind of life is that? And these are large groups, 20,000 or more, where this thinking is accepted as normal.

Please, America. Wake up. If your right to have guns endangers another person in any way, and it does, because by extension the bad guys have that right too, then you need to reconsider how important that is to you. My sister and her family live in your country, there are other Americans I love dearly, and there is a better way.

I have a decade in law enforcement, both in uniform and in despatch, and I will tell you absolutely that less guns equals less crime. Be brave, and entertain the possibility, at least.

 

I think any reasonable person would agree with this much, if it were stated clearly in the language you present here. The problem is that this type of statement, like so many key issues in the U.S., gets churned through the political machine and comes out in such a twisted, partisan way that liberals and conservatives are at each others' throats over something that need not have been a source of conflict. On a certain level, I believe the underlying problem here is our frustrating, irrational two-party system, which engenders petty factionalism and leads us as a nation to think of everything in false binaries. In such a context, I can certainly sympathize with @TheLoneDanger for becoming upset over what he perceived as turning a tragedy into political capital. I hope that others who differ in their opinions will try to be understanding of his initial reaction. I shared his reaction at first but then realized that the people who are advocating gun control here are really doing so out of an emotion similar to the sadness and disgust I feel about the shooter's actions.

In this matter, as in many, the answer lies somewhere between the two extremes. Neither should we ban guns completely, nor should we allow the laws and especially the loopholes to go unchanged/unaddressed.

However, shoutout to @CaptinCaveMan, whose OP expresses the most noble sentiment I have seen in this thread.

 

You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Strict gun control laws don't work look at Illinois, Baltimore they both have strict gun laws but has the highest gun crime rate? I wonder why? Because criminals are the ones that have them. Strict Gun laws hurt law abiding citizens.

There is a statistical correlation between more guns = less crime also the number of gun sales have increased yet the crime rate has dropped. And has been dropping since the late 90s according to FBI statistics.

This argument of "look at all these other countries that banned guns" is crap. To those from Europe who say it's sad to see mass shooting becoming so common place in America I say to them it's sad to see terroist attack become so common place in Europe.

Yeah let's model ourselves after countries in Europe where they have mass stabbings, mass molestations, no go zones bombings and other attacks on their citizens because the government can't protect their own citizens and the people don't have the right to defend themselves. Like in England (Birmingham) France (Paris) Germany (Cologne) and Sweden(malmo) just to give a few examples. As to the Australian ban on guns what are the stats for robbery, home invasion and other violent crimes? So to the Europeans that criticize the US look in your own god damn backyard before you start telling us how we need to get rid of our guns.

People hear all the time the bad about how someone shot someone else but not when the guns actually saved someone's life or a group of innocent people around them like in Garland, Texas or the attempted mass shooting in Salt Lake City at Trolley Square just to name a few instances.

Besides where do all these mass shooting occur? In gun free zones soft targets where people can't defend themselves. You can't carry in a theater, club or bar, the entire gun free zone in Europe...

Having the right to defend yourself doesn't stop at state lines nor does it stop when a government decides otherwise.

I have a concealed carry license, I had to go through some training, an extensive background check, and demonstrated proficiency with the weapon of choice and you better believe I don't leave home without it. I've never had to use it and hope I never have to but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and be dead. In the end you cannot depend on the police or government to protect you. You need to take the wellbeing of your own life, the lives of your family and loved ones into your own hands.

Those who turn their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.

 

@ConstraintsTheory its interesting to read your views, and I hope you don’t mind if I dialogue with you a bit.

You are obviously very passionate about this issue, and I respect that. But by your own admission, you carry a concealed weapon every day, and you’ve never had to use it. Have you seen other people in your life need to draw a personal weapon in self defense often? I ask because you, or ANY PERSON, carrying that gun, is a risk to EVERYONE. I say this as a police officer who carried a pistol on duty for years. If I, or my colleagues, misread a situation, someone ends up dead. And human error happens.

It’s a contentious issue, I know, I would just really like you to consider how your stance appears to outsiders like me.

 

Your post basically encompasses what I’ve been trying to say about a lot of these divisive issues. I’ll admit I don’t always put my ideas into words as eloquently as I’d like, which sometimes creates more divisiveness. We should always try to further the discussion in a way that helps us understand why we have our different points of view rather than rattle off the same stubborn talking points that have proven to get us nowhere. Anyway, good post!

 

My best wishes to all the people who this will affect. Going to pray for the people lost and for their families, as well as the people who have been injured in this horrifying event.
Amen!

 

Ban all guns, I can not see anything good come out of weapons.

 

People's lives have been saved because they had a gun on them and stopped a crime. I would say that's a pretty good thing.