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I'm a Christian and I Hate Evangelism

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    A really interesting interesting book regarding this topic that I would recommend is "On the Incarnation" by St. Athansuis. It's a very comprehensive book so it isn't the easiest read, but it's well worth it if you like deep topic.

    Regarding the topic of hell read "Can a loving God be wrathful" by Anthony M Coniaris. It's a very short book, but it's amazing and very simple to read. I literally read the whole book in a span of 2 days. It opened my eyes to a view of hell that I haven't considered before. Definitely highly recommend
     
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  2. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    I believe in the Church militant, triumphant and universal. Combine that with a Protestant background [before converting to Rome] and I tend to be an habitual proselytizer... though my modus operandi these days is to point out the narrow, insular and provincial nature of modern belief, wherein people might then appreciate all that the glory of the past has to offer.:rolleyes:

    I think the evangel should be more along the lines of art than ideology.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  3. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    It seems that modern protestant evangelism has been washed down to militant proselytization. And we wonder why there are so many atheists :rolleyes:
     
  4. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    I would venture to say that most of the great art we saw emerge in the early modern world was an unconscious [or not so unconscious] desire for the preservation of the various cultures which arose in the religious past. And so I'd say, in consideration of this, that art is a form of proselytizing power over the imagination. The Protestants today, in their individualism and rationalism, only have mere apologetics. And given that the world today is rapidly becoming post-rationalist, that enterprise may prove to be both futile and frustrating.
     
  5. Arohamystic

    Arohamystic Fapstronaut

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    Excellent! Thank you for sharing these. I’ll check them out!
     
  6. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    "Unbelief in the most essential, historical sense of the word is thus the only sin against the spirit of the true religion, whose heart is in heaven and whose heaven is in the heart" [Hamann]

    The problem today is not so much as disbelief in religion but unbelief in general. Life has become very egoistic - there is fast becoming a lack of belief in anything outside of the self. When belief first stirs [the project of art], within the self and towards others and the world, it soon comes to appreciate a fuller existence. Naturally, belief then begets belief... and it is not long before we are compelled to believe in the most sacred of truths.

    The tradition of western art essentially recognizes that 'heaven is in the heart'. From the theological perspective, this is saying man is made in the image of God. A truer recognition of your self can be the beginning of the recognition of God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  7. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    Be careful saying you hate evangelism. Evangelism means bearing good news.

    What you hate is simply one kind of evangelism. A type that I would argue is self-defeating, in that it is more likely to turn people away from the message rather than encourage investigation. As Christians we should be joyful when we see people coming to Christ, so it should upset us when we see people being pushed away by the misguided efforts of preachers such as the one you describe in your OP.

    Even if someone is converted by the threat of hell, it will most likely not be a fruitful conversion.

    Some may be called to be public proclaimers of the good news, but for the vast majority of us - this is our most effective evangelism.
     
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  8. I haven't read any of these replies, because I don't have the time, but just from the title and the first bit of the OP, I have some things to share.

    I've always been absolutely terrified of the idea of evangelism, and now I feel like it's one of my strongest gifts. God has totally changed my perspective and shown me that "evangelism" doesn't have to mean what we think of when we use the word. Sharing Jesus with people doesn't have to mean that you go door to door preaching, or just start talking to everyone about your testimony or about God all the time. For some people, evangelism can just mean being like Christ with people who don't know him. We are called to be bridge builders to Jesus, who is the ultimate bridge builder between us and God. That doesn't mean we have to preach at everyone we meet, or at anyone we meet, really.

    The best moments I've had with quote "evangelism" in my life have been completely organic. Not some forced, awkward, "hi, have you heard of Jesus?" kind of thing. All of the best evangelistic moments I've had have come naturally, from a connection I already have with a person. Maybe I've been friends with a non-Christian person for years, and maybe when they tell me of their struggles I let them know I'm praying for them. And they know I'm a Christian, but I don't have to talk about it all the time. If you're trying to live like Jesus, in kindness and compassion and humility, etc, people will start to notice that you are different than their other non-Christian friends. And maybe someday they'll ask you about that, and then you can share more of your story with them. It doesn't have to be some weird, forced thing. I don't believe forcing evangelism is a good way to go, anyway, because a person isn't going to truly be saved, or continue to walk with Christ, if their decision to accept Him doesn't come from a very genuine place in their heart. That's a person decision they have to make, between them and God, and it's not something you can (or should) try to force.

    It's also worth noting that even the smallest things can be considered evangelistic. For example, I just started working with a ministry at my church that works with guys from juvenile hall, and the man who leads the ministry mentioned to us ladies who are going to be serving lunch to the guys, that we might be the only examples of Christian women that these guys have ever met or will ever know. And a lot of those guys don't have people in their life who care about them and actually listen when they ask how they're doing. They are wised to being used and not being cared for, so even just being a kind person and lending a friendly ear is something that shows the kindess of Jesus in a way that they be never experienced before. That's evangelism, and that kindness has led to some really great mentorship opportunities for the men who volunteer their, and many of those guys have ended up coming to our church and accepting Jesus, finding some freedom from addiction or at least taking those first steps for the first time, etc. And all of that was born out of simple kindness and friendship.

    So for me, I don't think of evangelism as preaching or going door to door or sharing the Gospel everywhere I go. I think of it as being like Jesus, being kind to others and getting to know non-believers as humans and genuinely caring about them and their lives.

    Also, the Holy Spirit has to guide you in those things as well. There have been people with whom I've felt comfortable -- or even if it wasn't comfortable, felt it necessary -- to be more explicit in sharing God's word, because I felt that's what God was leading me to do and that they were ready to hear that. And then there are other people who I know have had such bad encounters with Christians that I felt like my only job, at least in that moment, was to be kind and accepting and show them that I don't judge them for being different or a little rough around the edges or gay or trans or whatever they've been judged for by Christians in the past.

    So anyway, long story short, I have come to really love evangelism and see it as a beautiful thing, not something uncomfortable and forced. I think we just have grown up thinking of it as a specific thing that it doesn't need to be. It doesn't have to be that scary.
     
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  9. I totally feel you on this! I'm glad God has opened my mind to see that I'm fine just as I am, and I can "evangelize" in my own way, and that's good enough for him. He's pretty gracious like that. ;)

    Absolutely disgusting. Not a Christ-like mindset at all. We are mere humans. I am no better than a playboy model, and if I am, it's only by the grace of God for blessing me with incredibly parents, enough money to live comfortable, supportive family that taught me how to value my self worth, etc. I didn't accomplish any of that. I cannot boast in anything but the Lord.

    I think there is a right way to do this, and a very very wrong way to do this. It's always important, in every aspect of life, to acknowledge reality. Not talking about the reality of heaven and hell and Salvation is not a kind way to live. If you truly care about those you love, you should want them to know about these things, because you should care deeply about where they will spend eternity.

    I think the biggest issue when people talk about how non-Christians will go to hell if they don't accept Jesus is that they do so from a place completely void if humility. Personally, when I talk to people about that delicate subject, I try to make it very clear that it's not like I'm saying I'm going to heaven because I'm better than them. I am destined for hell, as well, without Jesus' salvation. We are in the exact same sinking ship, but I happen to have put on my life jacket, and they haven't yet. There are a number of different ways to approach this, but in all of them, humility is incredibly important. And it's important to be clear in your communication, so whoever you're talking to doesn't feel like you're judging them. Telling someone they will go to hell if they don't accept Jesus feels like a judgement when you're on the receiving end of that word, but in reality it's just a fact. An observation. It reminds me of when people get upset when I say someone has a mental disorder, like as if I just called them s dirty word. But telling someone they have a mental disorder isn't necessarily and insult or judgement, it might just merely be a fact, or an observation. It's just important to be clear about that.

    I think that's terrible as well. I've never met anyone who feels that way about non-believers, thankfully. Yet again, pride is the issue there. They're so prideful about their Salvation, as if it makes them better than someone who isn't "saved." But newsflash, you aren't saved because of anything you've done or anything special about you. It's because of who God is, and it's a free gift that is available to anyone and everyone.

    Here's the thing... We ALL have fallen short of the glory of God. Just think of the 10 commandments alone. Do you think you can find a single person on earth who has not lied, cheated, stolen, lusted after a woman/man, or used God's name in vain? Anything that strays even slightly from holy perfection, doesn't meet God's standards, and therefore is a "crime" of sorts. And when you commit a crime, you go to prison. We all have committed crimes against God. Every single one of us. And when you steal something from a store, a good, just judge doesn't look at the past of your entire life and determine that the good outweighs the bad and therefore you don't need to be punished for your theft, because you're a "good person." Justice would be punishment for committing a crime, regardless of how many nice, good things you've done in your life. But the good news is that Jesus can pardon all of that. He took our punishment for us, so that God can legally, without hesitation and without disregarding justice, dismiss our case and set us free.

    And yeah, maybe that doesn't sound like a good system to you. You're free to disagree with that and argue with God about how you think his system is effed up (seriously, go yell at God for a while, He can handle it). But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how you feel about it or whether or not you "like the idea of hell." What matters is what is true and real. If hell is real and the Bible is true, then that's the reality we live in, whether we like it or agree with it or not.

    I agree, and I absolutely think God loves to see us using the brains he gave us. We are emotional beings, but we are also logical beings, and he made us that way for a reason. But again, questioning whether or not hell exists because you don't like the idea isn't a logical questioning, it's an emotional one. If you have logical reasoning behind doubting the reality of hell, that's one thing, but if it's just because it's an uncomfortable thing to believe in, that's not logic, it's emotion.

    That's great! There's no reason to fear or to be uncomfortable with talking about other religions or beliefs, especially if you have solid reasons for your own beliefs. I, for one, don't fear talking to atheists, because I'm not worried about the possibility of their beliefs threatening my own. I have some pretty solid reasons to believe what I believe, so there's no need to fear.

    I'm glad you don't necessarily have a strong desire to try to "convert" people, but if you truly are a Christian, I would hope that you still have a desire to see people come to know Jesus. It's not our job to convert people. As I've said previously, that's not something we can do anyway. It must be their choice. But if you care about where your loved ones are going to spend eternity, then you should have some desire to see them come to know Jesus. I feel like if you literally have NO desire for that, then you probably don't truly believe the things you think you believe. If you truly believe Jesus is who he says he is, I can't imagine how you wouldn't have a desire for other people to know him as well? Knowing Jesus intimately is absolutely life changing, for the better. It would be unnatural -- almost a bit sadistic, honestly -- to not desire for others to have the freedom you have in Christ. Hopefully I'm just misunderstanding your choice of words there.
     
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  10. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    One day a girl said to Tweeby, “Tweeby, I would like to know what Heaven and Hell are like?”

    Tweeby showed the girl two doors. Inside the first one, in the middle of the room, was a large round table with a large pot of stew. It smelled delicious and made her mouth water, but the people sitting around the table were thin and sickly. They appeared to be famished. They were holding spoons with very long handles and each found it possible to reach into the pot of stew and take a spoonful, but because the handle was longer than their arms, they could not get the spoons back into their mouths.

    The girl shuddered at the sight of their misery and suffering. Tweeby said, “You have seen Hell. . . Let me show you heaven”

    Behind the second door, the room appeared exactly the same. There was the large round table with the large pot of wonderful stew that made the girl's mouth water. The people had the same long-handled spoons, but they were well nourished and plump, laughing and talking.

    The girl said, “I don’t understand.”

    Tweeby smiled. It is simple, he said, Love only requires one skill. These people learned early on to share and feed one another. While the greedy only think of themselves. . .

    Tweeby said unto the girl. . . There is no difference between heaven and hell, you make what you want out of your own life and the situations you find yourself in!

    Exasperated the girl appraised Tweeby with curiosity and a pensive etched look on her face.

    "I've been living in this hell forever, this pit, there seems like there is no way out. I've adorned pictures on the walls to make it more comfortable but alas it is still a pit!"

    Tweeby winked at her and said,"You've been so focused on where you are, you forgot to realise the hole in the wall, what's stopping you from simply crawling out?"

    body-hydrangea-1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  11. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Further, the modern day proselytizer and evangel must first establish a 'system of credit', or 'social capital'. He must appear ever so rational, or should I say intelligent, and in evoking in the normal course of conversation in his listeners a curiosity, whereby their beliefs have been cast in a new light, must then, at an opportune moment, strike and unburden himself in a more spirited and passionate manner of those seemingly absurd religious tenets and truths that lay at the core of his own being. More than often, he will rapidly spend much of the 'capital' he had accrued earlier, and so must also know when to pull back in order to once again re-engage in a more mundane mode of conversation. There is a fine balancing act involved here given that religious belief, at the mass level, is largely deemed absurd in this day and age. It is the old orthodoxy meeting the new. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  12. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

  13. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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  14. I'm not sure how to find him (or should I say her or maybe it is a better word to use). When I hear people say 'God told me this, God told me that' I get suspicious. How does one know it was God talking, I use to think God talked to me but I maybe it was just my conscious talking to me. How do you know the difference between the conscious thoughts and God's voice

    I think that's what I'm doing.

    Yes, but what is truth and what is real?

    I think the Bible is a book written by real people in real places in history. It was written in languages that probably no one (on this forum speaks) speaks, in cultures that many of us have never experienced and in time in history that none of us have lived in. And the trouble is we bring our English speaking, Western thinking minds to it when we read it. And because of that we might be misunderstanding the meaning of it. When I wrote the OP I would have said the Bible has a number of contradictions in it, but having thought about it for a number of months I'd say this is an unfair statement to make, because we're judging this ancient book with a 21st century mindset. History should be judged in context and so should the Bible. But in my opinion not everything in the Bible matches up. There are manuscripts that fight among themselves and scholars have to decide which one is right. Some of the science written about in the Bible doesn't make sense. But I don't think the writers we're trying to write a fact filled book, that could face up to modern minds.

    What is heaven? What is hell? How much our understanding of such things are influenced by western culture If Constantine had never converted to Christianity would we think differently about it? If there were no reformation would our understanding be different? How much influence does the Middle Ages have on our thoughts on heaven and hell? How much of our thoughts on heaven and hell actually come from the Bible?

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Revelation 21:10).
    What does that even mean? The current heaven is going to be destroyed? Once in a Bible study we had a bit of an argument over what will happen to the earth. Many thought the earth would be destroyed but I was wondering maybe it will be restored. And if earth is going to be destroyed then does that mean heaven is going to be destroyed as well?
    And what get someone into heaven? The sinners prayer? But the sinners prayer isn't even mentioned in the Bible! Believe in Jesus? But what does that mean? Not all witnesses agree on what Jesus did. In most Bible translations there's footnotes stating such facts. I think Jesus was a historical person but how much can we trust. Most Bible scholars will say The Sermon on the Mount isn't a word for word sermon because there's not much structure to it. I mean it's all over the place and as far as I know no one actually preaches like that. I think what we see is highlights of a number of different sermons Jesus preached.

    I think getting into heaven is a lot more complex than believing in Jesus for aren't we suppose to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Jesus said anyone who doesn't forgive will not be forgiven by God and how can someone enter heaven if they're not forgiven. I think so much of what we think a Christian is is wrong and nothing but a Western invention.

    I think eternity will be full of surprises. In the book The Great Divorce we see many people choosing hell over heaven because of bitterness. I think we will see plenty of Christians wanting to go to hell because they haven't forgiven and hate certain people who are in heaven. Also how can we be sure how far God's mercy goes? The idea that God's mercy ends when someone dies, how can we sure that's the case. Maybe God's mercy is bigger than we could imagine and it's shown in eternity.

    Another question is how does hell operate? Eternal consciousness tournament? Annihilationism?

    I do believe there is a hell for the hardest of hearts. You sometimes see people who just are so full of bitterness that it's impossible for them to love. I remember reading this news story about a man abused this girl, he was convicted and sentenced to prison. But despite being found guilty he refused to apologise and not only that he wrote a poem mocking the girl he abused. For me that's someone on their way to hell. God will have the final say but I don't how he will escape hell. On the other there's a difference between him and a Muslim woman who's in the Middle East and has never heard the gospel, or a man who only encounters 'Christians' who just condemn him and tell him he's going to hell.

    Having said all that I think annihilationism goes hand in hand with God's mercy.

    A well know Bible verse says this: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    The opposite of life is death therefore I don't think ECT is a correct view of hell. I think that ECT is probably a middle ages invention.
     
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  15. Runtilmylegsdropoff

    Runtilmylegsdropoff Fapstronaut

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    I'm a Christian and I agree with the OP too.
     
  16. Oh! You should go through the book "Experiencing God" by Henry Blackaby and Claude King. The one I've gone through is a youth edition, but man oh man, it totally answered that question for me, back in high school. I was desperate to hear God and to feel like I can tell the difference between hearing God and my own thoughts, and through that study and prayer I learned so much.

    Well, that's part of why it's important, if you really want to grow and learn properly, to go to a good church or listen to sermons and teachings from people who have dedicated years of their lives learning Greek and Hebrew and studying the customs of the times and understanding the context of things. My old church wasn't always very detailed about that stuff, but my new church is great. I've been a Christian my whole life, and studied at a Christian university, but I still learn new things all the time from my pastors. Different little things about the history or the definitions of words or the context of an event that I had never heard before. Because they're well educated in that area. You might not have the time to educate yourself extensively in those things, but at least you can learn from those who have.

    Oh absolutely! So many things people say are contradictions or don't make sense are simply due to the fact that they don't understand the context of what's happening, or they've just heard a verse or two ripped out of the context of the book itself. There are several books of the Bible, for example, that are written FOR us, but not TO us. Such as the early Old Testament books that go into great detail about how priests need to act and the sacrifices they need to do and such. Those things are valid and important to read, to understand what's going on later, but they aren't direct commands to us. They were guidelines for them, not for us. Whereas something like the 10 Commandments, for example, are commands for all of God's people, regardless of time. Context is extremely extremely important.

    Like what?

    Like what?

    It's interesting you mention that, because I've actually learned some things recently that would suggest the opposite. You might find this video interesting.



    Honestly, these are questions I am willing to say "I don't know, and that's okay" about. I have no idea exactly what heaven will be like, or what hell is like, and I don't think we ever really, until we experience one of them for ourselves. I know some people really want to know, but for me, I'm fine with just not knowing.

    Again, I honestly have no idea about that one. I always used to picture heaven like being in clouds and singing worship songs all the time, until one of my professors challenged our views on heaven and asked us "wouldn't that be boring?" And I was forced to admit "well, yeah, that does sound pretty boring." I don't kno what heaven will be like, but I know who God is, so I know it will be good, and that's all I really need to know at this point.

    Romans 10:9 says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." But that can't be exactly it, because even the demons believe in Jesus and God, and clearly they are not "saved." Essentially, my understanding is that you need to accept that Jesus died for your sins, and receive that offer to absolve you of your sins. That's it. It's a one-time deal, although a continued relationship with God is what will naturally come from that kind of life changing experience.

    I would just reiterate, context is important. I don't have to go into more detail right now or look up those specific verses, but they are both undoubtedly part of a larger story that needs to be taken into account.

    Very possible. That's another one I don't know about. We tend to think that when someone dies, if they haven't accepting Jesus yet, they go to hell. But who knows if that's really the case? Maybe there is some kind of purgatory or in between time? Maybe they still have the option to accept Jesus later? I don't know 100% that that's not the case. I don't think we really can know.

    As far as the rest of your post, I would just say you have a very inquisitive mind, sir. :) Lol I don't have answers, and I'm not sure if anyone else does either, but it's interesting to ponder!
     
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  17. Rigel7

    Rigel7 Fapstronaut

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    As a Christian, I think how you view evangelism and how you feel about it depends on what is your take on the Christianity that you believe. If you believe that proselytising someone to Christianity is about converting them to a subculture, a way of dressing and an ideological viewpoint, then yes, it seems really hammy and insincere to be doing that. However, if you view Christianity as offering a chance for eternal life, wouldn't you want your friends to know? If you believe that this is what Christianity offers, not trying to tell your friends about that is arguably hateful.

    I'm sorry to hear that the church and religious leaders were very overbearing towards you when growing up. I'm very sad to hear about your experiences with 'friends' who only friend others to evangelise and convert but have no interest in their personhood. That's terrible. The bible itself should have informed them that everyone is a special and important, meaningful human being as all have been made in the image of God. I'm glad you're able to find freedom now to be able to make genuine and guilt-free friendships, but I do want to encourage you that the freedom should allow you to express your faith to your friends too.

    Athiest Penn Jillette (of Penn & Teller fame) made a video which is my favourite justification of why evangelism is important for a Christian. I'd encourage you to watch it:
     
  18. I appreciate your kind and open approaching.
    I think it's amazing easy to "find" God. There is one place He showed Himself: the cross where Jesus died.
    I was searching for literally years for "the truth". But I couldn't find it, and.... actually I didn't know what I was looking for.
    I was talking about my journey with somebody (a christian) and that evening I just *saw* it.
    Looking at the cross where Jesus is hanging, murdered, beat, mocked and at last died.
    Looking at him, I suddenly saw it.

    He did this, because He loves me.

    That's it. I saw the love of God behind this cross. And I knew it :) I found God.
    And on that particular moment, when I saw "because He loves me" that love was filling me.
    For me this door function like a door. Every day after that particular day, I was filling myself with that love.
    This love is amazing. It felt so pure, so light, so enlightening, so releasing, so peaceful. And this love IS the Holy Spirit.
    When I felt this love, I know that God is speaking. It's all about love, His being. That means that I need to constantly go through this door that Jesus is, feeding myself with His love and grace.

    (Luk 13:22 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.)

    Because of Jesus, it's possible to have a relationship with God. He has shown His love to me (in Christ) and this love is constantly speaking to my soul. Challenging me to act, to change, to move. Because of this love, I got rid of my porn addiction. Because of this love I now know about why there is so much porn, why it is so addictive, why I was so attracted to etc.

    I only can confirm the words of Jesus:

    John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


    We all are looking for knowledge, for wisdom, but *in* Christ alone is the wisdom everybody is looking for.
    Wisdom, connected to His love, is connecting to a life full of love and meaning.
    Because to me, the only meaningful reason I can imagine, is love myself and love others. And, love the *love* (that is God).

    Yes, 66 books, written over a 600-700 years.
    But there is one thing. How is it possible that all those books forms one complete coherent entirety?
    For example, look at the prophecies. How were the earlier writers able to prophecy things, that the later writers have written down as facts? The only reason (and prove) is that is was God Himself who was inspirint all those writers. And.... that is written down by themselves many many times. Everywhere in the bible you can read that it was God who was calling....
    that was God who was helping..... that was God who gave the task to write down.... that is was God who was acting......

    To me only the Holy Spirit can convince you about these things.
    All (*ALL*) these things you will see when you go in to that strait gate. That is Jesus.


    Again, only when you go in to the very strait gate, you will start understanding.
    Yes Jesus was of course an historical person, but hey, He was claiming to be the son of God.
    So you have the choice: was He kind of a crazy man, yelling here and there the most amazing things?
    But if so, then please read further. Look at *how* he reacts on the Pharisees for example. Look how He treated people.
    To me, He didn't act like a crazy man at all.

    It needs time to study and to see the overall picture. But again, without knowing Him personally you won't get the point.

    I like to turn it around.
    To me, it was like I was in hell when my life became terribly dark, lonely, painful, because of my porn addiction.
    That was hell. It is because I entered the strait gate, that I found love, and mercy, and light. To me this felt like heaven.

    Not forgiving people is creating a life full of wrath, painful conflicts, struggles. You may call that hell.
    Forgiving people is totally freeing and releasing. I know that :)
    You may call that heaven (on earth).

    So in certain way, we *choose* our way to heaven, or hell.

    Sometimes it's quiet clear what people have chosen. Look at some celebrities. They openly speaking about how they sold their soul to the devil. They choose their way to hell. That does not change the fact that God is loving these people.
    Unless they brake free from the pact they created with the devil, yep, they are lost forever.

    I think that heaven is more beautiful than we can imagine. And hell is more dark and painful than we can imagine.[/quote]
    I only know where I come from (the dark life of porn) and where I am right now.
    I also know that if I hadn't found Christ, I was lost in the darkness and loneliness. Lost forever :(

    I think you are close to the Kingdom of God.
     
  19. Yeah, a few months ago because a Gungor show was stopped by the Pastor of the church that put the concert on.

    My Mum asked what I wanted for Christmas and I told her Rob Bell's book What is the Bible?, now she's freaking out thinking I might lose my faith. Maybe it would of been better if I had asked for Maria Sharapova's biography or something less of a fret. I don't want to get into arguments or anything with my parents, it might upset them.
     
  20. Arohamystic

    Arohamystic Fapstronaut

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    Rob Bell's book is on my Christmas wishlist too!

    But I agree, something less controversial might be a wiser choice as a gift from your parents. I'm [slowly] learning that I need to honour my parents and have gratitude towards them for raising me in a safe and secure environment. It is better for me to use the limited time I have with them to love and uplift them, rather than get into circular arguments about religion.

    Have a great weekend. :)
     
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