Not Just Your Problem

This'll be unpopular...

 

I understand where you're coming from. That's why I'm quitting porn for my future gf lol

 

The biggest point I've tried to make is one that I think you and a few other people have missed. I'll try again.

When I say, "women that react poorly to their husbands' addiction are self-centered," I'm actually talking about an underlying and more deeply-rooted problem than just a flippant response made out of pain. I have always believed, and have many observations to back this up 100%, that selflessness in a relationship (namely a marriage) is fundamentally key to a strong relationship and plays a huge role in eliminating problematic situations before they arise.

A selfless husband will consider his wife's needs and desires above his own. He'll constantly be aware of her emotions and will always be in tune with her perspective on things - this goes hand in hand with fluid communication. Likewise, a selfless wife will not consider herself first when thinking about her husband and his needs, but will instead think, "How can I benefit him?" Yeah, selflessness does seem like a no-brainer, but so many relationships - even among believers - are rife with men and women who consider their own needs, ambitions, and desire first: self-centeredness, or, the act of centering around ones own self. But, in a relationship where both husband and wife are purely selfless, offense and taking offense are practically nonexistent. Hard to achieve? Sure, especially if you're not used to it.

So, back to the point. When I have said to women, "It's not about you!" I've been trying to help them get out of the mentality of thinking of self first; I'm not saying for a moment that they're not involved or that their needs are not important. Yeah, PMO is a harsh addiction, and yeah, it affects more than just the user. But the way women tend to react about it is not only reprehensible, it's robbing them of any peace they might have in the process and it's putting a major hindrance on their ability to overcome. A wife's duty to her husband first and foremost is to love and respect him - in fact, if you go the route of the believer, the Bible has specific instructions for both men and women - and not once does it ever say, "Consider first thine own needs and requirements; thence care for thine own husband or wife second." No, it gives a foolproof success method for husbands and wives: Wives submit obediently as unto God, and husbands love in a fashion synonymous with Jesus's love for His church.

When I say, "It's not about you!" I'm fighting against the very thing that is inflicting so much pain on the woman in the first place, which plays a role in many of her other relationship problems as well, as it does with all of us: the me-first mentality of considering our own needs and desires and feelings first almost as an instantaneous reaction, second nature.

What's the alternative?

A far more mature approach - and one that has to be painstakingly developed if a person isn't used to it - is to put self to death. In fact, if you get the big picture of the Bible (I know this is where you're coming from), the whole idea centers around letting go of the reigns and trusting in God to be the center of the universe - not us. That said, I don't think this is first and foremost a trust issue, but a focus and perspective issue.

I'll use my girlfriend as an example - she's an excellent young woman with a vibrant heart and a selfless approach to life and people. You'll never hear her use the words "I want" in a sentence (or if you do, it's usually because she "wants" something good for someone else - no lie). She's got a developed sense of selfless service and consideration - that, or she never developed the selfish attitude that many of us have (yes, including me; it's something I had to put to the sword if I wanted to be a good husband). When I told her that I was struggling with pornography, even though she is very protective over me and my body and even though I essentially belong to her and no one else, her first reaction was, in essence, "What can I do to help?" Unfortunately, with most women, the first essential reaction is "I don't understand" and "How could you do this to me?"

In summary, yes, I get that this is a problem that's bigger than just the addict. I don't think any PMO addict here would be surprised by that revelation. It's obviously even more pronounced if we're married. However, if our wives are to be involved in the process, they've got to put to death the idea of self - which hopefully has already been done in a mature woman. It is not a wife's job - and is actually quite a perversion of her responsibility - to, as I have observed in many relationships, get offended, take offense, beat her husband into submission, hold guilt over his head, or neglect her responsibility to love and respect him. And if she does, all she's going to do hurt her husband and herself in the process.

So the next time I say to a woman that's flipping out about her husband's addiction to PMO, "It's not about you", you'll understand what I mean. And if I can help a woman - or anyone, for that matter - cut free of the bonds of self-centeredness, of the consideration first and foremost of self as almost an autonomous subconscious reaction, then I believe that all of our reactions will become wrapped around an attitude of love and respect as opposed to ones of fear and control, and we'll be much more able to serve the people around us.


<EDIT> And if you ever want to honestly see what it's like from the other end of the equation, go track down nageroma, my girlfriend, and listen to what she has to say. She's on this forum as well.

 

Didn't your marriage fail, Weiland? How, then, can you talk about duty and how to be a proper spouse? You're going to "marry" a woman who cannot become your wife.


Other end of the equation? Have you not read Kedvesem's story yet?

 

That would be my business, but if you honestly want to know as opposed to trying to use part of my past to discredit me, then I'll tell you sometime. Or maybe I'll find it relevant enough to post on at some point. Meanwhile, there's a stone lying around for you to throw, probably. I don't appreciate your Catholicism-rooted judgement, but in any case, it's besides the point here.

And the other end of the equation is a universal term - Ked isn't part of my equation here. She might be, but I don't know her, and I think she's missing a few calculations, to continue the metaphor. What I mean by "the other end of the equation" is the female perspective to a selfless approach on life. That may or may not be compatible with your wife's story, I don't know; you'll have to ask her sometime.

 

Kedvesem is the most selfless woman breathing. You'd know that if you read her story!

http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthread.php?21354-Seen-From-the-Other-Side

 

By all means, Ked, I understand. I am constantly in the business of encouraging men to be the real men that God called them to be, whether they know that calling or not. I've seen and been on the receiving end of domestic violence, abuse, and neglect for the first 18 years of my life, so I recognize the vast importance for men to end the generational curses of domestic abuse.

I haven't read your story, but I get the gist of what you're saying. And I can't judge whether you're too extreme or too zealous as a wife or a Catholic, nor is it my place. In fact, I thoroughly commend you in staying in this for the long haul and seeing the reward, and for remaining in love through the whole thing. Never once did I infer that you weren't selfless - and if that's what your husband thinks, then he's really proving my observation of him, that he takes offense way too easily. That, however, is besides the point.

Unfortunately, many women do not have the same approach you do. Forget abuse and violence; many wives have a limited tolerance for anything their husbands might do. Many of the addicts here are well able to be good husbands and to admit their defects and their addiction, to make the right decision. You're right when you say that addiction doesn't just affect the individual; likewise, the wife has a responsibility to think less or not at all of herself and to support and fight for her husband with love and respect, especially in light of his admission and humility and the hard struggle he's already going through.

I know there are wives to addicts here. If anything, I hope to bring them to a new understanding of the addiction and hope to adjust their perspectives in some way. That, in addition to all of my other efforts to fight PMO.

Hope that clears things up. Much respect to you for your steadfastness and determination.

 

Actually, the wife has no such responsibility. Though it is morally praiseworthy for her to stick it out, it is not morally obligatory. If she leaves because of his infidelity, though, she may not remarry. That's how this all works.

 

Actually, she does have that responsibility jmark. Just like the husband does. Marriage is not something you should go into thinking "Well I might stick it out, if it gets too hard though I'm out of here." You have to think of your spouse and be willing to fight through difficult situations like this, death do us part doesn't mean to run away when things become too hard. It's sad to see, but a lot of people aren't in it for the long run and it's destroyed by the immaturity to handle or the inability to think of the other person.

And it's none of your business why his marriage didn't work, the thing is, jmark, we learn from things like that even if it's painful. When we do marry (because I do believe God gives us chances and it isn't a one time mess up, you're done, type of deal) then it is our responsibility to take care of each other and our needs. The thing that gets me is that I see Ked being very reasonable and able to actually converse in this, but you seem to get snarky and leave little comment just to stir things up.

 

Eh, it's what happens when you adhere strictly to scripture without a broader understanding and context. I can draw literally any conclusion from Biblical scripture if I cherry-pick it. It also gives one a nice little sense of self-righteousness - but, then, that's how I've found Catholicism to be.

We'll have a great marriage, babe. And it honors me to know that God has been touching our hearts and our lives in this since day one. Thank you for sticking it out when things have gotten rough, and thank you for being as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside. <3 Just a little side note.

 

You have to have a good understanding in what you're actually reading to be able to put it into practice. When it becomes self-righteous, being that self and nothing else matters, it's not doing you or your faith any good. lol I just find it funny, that's all.

We will, and even through this, I'm blessed to be involved and active. It absolutely means the world to me, as do you. <3

 

That's why I think masturbation is an immoral act. And I have explained this very clear in several threads. The damage done by masturbation and pornography does not affect you only - it affects your family, friends, work. On a small scale, it also affects society.

Does that mean that masturbators are to blame? No. It means that they should get treatment and help. If they cannot do this on their own, professionals (though professionals who knows anything about this issue does not exist anymore/yet) need to step in. Just like professionals and society sometimes have to step in when a person drink or abuse drugs, if they cannot solve their problem on their own of course.

That is why masturbation has been seen as evil throughout human history by various cultures, thinkers, authors, doctors, philosophers and other scientists. They observed that masturbators became less productive.

Masturbating is basically just as bad as injecting heroin. I don't blame drug addicts or alcoholics, but I think they deserve help, they need help and should be given help.

 

Exactly. Just like any addict, especially the ones that admit their addiction and actively work to change it, sexual addicts need that same level of support. I've heard the argument that a wife has no obligation to stick with a man that is abusive or addicted, especially if it's a dangerous addiction, but I counter with this: if a wife doesn't support, honor, and fight for her husband when he really needs her, is she really a wife, or just a fair-weather associate?

Maturity and wisdom give more than sufficient tools to handle these things with decorum and grace. The standard may be for wives to implode/explode, but I submit that this is only because we have so many immature young girls out there, rather than well-equipped, emotionally mature women. We need good men to be good husbands and fathers, but we need women to step up and be good wives and mothers, too.

 

Great post. A man shall support his wife, always, especially in a battle like this one. Same goes for women. Stand side by side. Nothing gets better by leaving each other on their own.