Anyone intend to transform the act of self pleasuring?

I’d much rather just have more real sex than self pleasure at all. Experience enough good lovin I don’t need to jerky my beef.

 

What do you consider totally transformed?

If one is currently deeply conditioned by pornography, then a definition is probably not helpful as the addicted and heavily conditioned mind cannot imagine such a healthy perspective with any degree of realism. Any such definition is likely to be simple and we can say "yes I agree with that non-addictive, sex positive statement about self pleasure" and .. that's it.

This is a little like the way of thinking around positive affirmations, which in many cases seem to toss truth out the window. The person suffering from negativity around self esteem is interested in feeling better and if lying to themselves on some level will do it, they may not care if it is not true. Of course, it may be that both extremes of positive and negative self esteem are untrue, but the pattern tends to be it swings from one to the other without staying in the non-judgmental, undefined and indefinite which is perhaps the most true - and unknown to most the most powerful place.

Which goes to the nature of definitions, which is inherently limiting. It is a cognitive simplification, what actually brings one pleasure may not follow such a formula - although the themes around pornographic content is likewise a handful played out to death, leveraging our biological hardwiring.

And depending on how deeply the transformation involved is you can't really talk about self pleasure without talking about your idea of the self, and if it is thoroughly transformed you cannot necessarily know what that future, transformed self will think of as self pleasure - anything one comes up with now is based on the imagination of the old self as a projection of the future transformed self. The only way this is not true is someone believes the part that defines it doesn't need to be transformed, but what is transformed is peripheral stuff which considering what we know about how deep porn addiction can go is perhaps a bit of a silly position.

Transformation as a process and in principle is actually kind of antithetical to masturbation in the same generalized sense, that is to say for something to transform something very deep and fundamental is changed, whereas masturbation is by definition stimulating the same thing for pleasure, a repetitious loop, which kind of goes back to positive affirmations as it follows that pattern as a mental equivalent.

None of this has to involve any kind of judgement, but it's only to describe what it is. Rather than a mental loop of the same positive affirming statements, which would be in a sense masturbatory whether one considers that pejorative or not, one can engage in creative writing that doesn't rely on the same words. Of course, if that is the case it IS trans-formative in a literal sense in that the same form is not repeatedly used as people repeat phrases like some kind of mantra, although it can be just as if not more positive - and of course smarter and creative.

So what does this translate to as far as physical sexual pleasure? Well for starters does it have to focus on the genitalia? There are plenty of people who talk about things like full body orgasms, or practices which expands sexual energy to include the scope of the whole body. My thought is if we're going to go there, why limit it to ones own body? That does not necessarily have to involve sex but it may involve sexual energy in some form, and key to the whole dopamine M.O. it may not involve SEEKING. Suppose we did a study involving intense eye contact, but it may involve the difference between looking at someone to attract vs. looking at someone to instill a sense of feeling secure in THEIR sense of attractiveness - to go back to the self esteem thing? It is at least theoretically possible to somehow simultaneously communicate both the message that the person is thought to be attractive as well, along with the distinct absence of trying to get something from them.

But as far as masturbation goes, a key difference is there's the perspective where you get to an end point in the transformative process and the question of what self pleasure looks like or involves then, the other being it just continually evolves even after one gets to a healthy place - in which case there's just no telling what it would look like exactly, at any given point. If it looks like what any number of things people are doing out there and it isn't just naturally discovered in the absence of porn, then there's of course the question of whether that is natural for that person or if it's from porn.

And of course, strictly speaking if people are talking about this with each other it isn't a totally solitary activity. And we might as well do this kind of dialogue with ourselves, not necessarily with words but just to get all of our selves on the same page. Rather than mind over matter or body, it's mind in dialogue and communication with the body - which if it is thorough enough there is no inner division, and any real needs might be met and perceived needs (along with the perceived means of meeting them) may be seen through and seen for what they actually are. If that's done deeply and completely (not just with words) it'd probably be very hard to have an addiction.

 

I just want to see how far I can push it, all I know is the more days I go without, the better I feel. Ideally, i want to have it to where if I need a release it will be sex with a woman, instead of PMO, which has a different biochemical effect on the brain/body, a healthier one than PMO. If i relapse say...after a 30 day streak, i wont beeat myself up too hard, I'll just go back to enjoying what its like without PMO as long as i can push it.

 

Retention of body fluids( semen) is important during reboot
So avoid that self pleasure

 

Love..pleasure... aren’t these things that are better to be given?
Even if it’s okay, I would not enjoy such a solitary action.

Truthfully, I experience more fulfillment from making someone smile than anything I’ve ever done for myself.
It’s the beautiful side of a sensitive empathy.

 

I believe this addiction is for life, there is no "reboot" and if you masturbate the "chaser effect" will kick in, which will only lead you back to unhealthy habits! the "I'm cured, now I can fap" trap has destroyed so many 100/200/300+ streaks and got fapstronauts back to binging habits and on square 0 that it would surprise you!

 

In theory I agree, in practice I find it hard to not fall into old habits.
It's definitely a way more healthy approach than the self-rejection others perform.

 

It depends on the person. Some people can continue to pmo and still be highly successful, driven, see other people as whole human beings rather than idolizing them, and have a healthy life. They know the cost of indulging in such things. Such as an athlete eating junk food once in a while. Other people have addictive personalities and go off the deep end. Some people can gamble / drink alcohol for fun without their lives spiraling downwards.

Just know yourself and be responsible for your actions.

Personally, masturbation would feel great (no matter how you approach it), but I rather delay that gratification until I share that pleasure with somebody else. I would trust myself to watch porn and not mess up my life, but there's better things to do now.

 

I don't necessarily think self pleasure is inherently bad, if you are choosing to be celibate for life. Otherwise, I don't think it's good. I think if you have a partner, or ever plan to have a partner, you should save that for them.

 

Masturbation is a selfish act that is completely and utterly devoid of any worth or redeemable qualities.

 

Just read some very insteresting article some time ago, an Antropology aproach to the sexual practices of a tribe. I wish I could share it with you all, I'll look for it again. The thing is that in this tribe none of the habitants practice Masturbation, they just simply dont know and dont care about it. Of course this doesnt represent an issue for them, they just practice sex with (many) partners since Polygamy is inherent.

This makes me question the beliefs about sexuality in our world. Do we really need to masturbate? I have read many opinions (professional and non-professional) about how healthy masturbation can be,yes. But, what if its just the status quo of our capitalist Sistem/Culture in order to make sex a matter of consumption? Pornography exist based on the need of self sexual pleasure, so if we didnt care about self "sexual pleasure/masturbation" like this Tribe? Also this tribe doesnt care about beign naked, or if they show their asses, breasts and sexual organs.

Why our society is trying to avoid nakedness? Isnt it just in order to exploit it by its own regime? We can see male nipples but the female ones must suffer from censorship, because if we were able to see them as a "normal" thing, who would pay to see for the forbiden thing? For playboy or porn or Erotica?

I truly believe, or want to believe that it is posible to live without masturbation, but its not an easy thing since society need to sexualize us all the time in order to consume, with advertisment for example. This Tribe people doesnt face with a sexy lingerie ad in front of their house or in their (nonexistent) mobile phone. But we do! So, I suspect that gaining control of our sexuality and living in it in our terms is a revolutionary thing.

I'll just try to live without masturbation and see how it goes. But this may not be the best for everyone. I remember the first time I did masturbate,(without porn or images) it was an experience charged of magic, self pleasure, mistery and power. I wish I could go back to this state of mind but Honestly I think its almost imposible. Anyway, Im shure many of this qualitys might be aprochable with a partner-making a deep conection-

Im shure One day (or many honestly) I will want or need to just relax and give myself some love. Masturbation can be an option but, what if I pay for a relaxing massage instead? Ñam! Or some other way to transform that sexual energy.

 

I'm living out my life in the hope that one can live without masterbation, or any kind of sex. I'd reply to you elaborately as to how I'm approaching this, but it delves into religion and so I must keep those words to my journal. I'll write it out later there if you, or anyone else, is interested.

To be succinct for the purpose of this thread, I believe there are two things at play that go into living free from sexuality: hunger and fulfillment. Once the hunger for sex is awakened within us, it goes naturally that we'd try and feed that hunger somehow. Truly, once the hunger is awakened, it can be a ferocious beast.

So far, it seems like most of the conversation has been about alternate ways to feed the beast of sex. I question the health of that...as we've seen from PMO that the side effect has been terrible to use an alternate source to feed our sexuality. Perhaps other alternate sources are better than PMO, but are they truly what is best? At least for one such as me, the answer is a clear no. I'd go as far to say that alternate means of fulfilling the hunger could result in alternate, but similar, side effects that you'd find in PMO. Like, what of NMO (Nature, Masturbation, Orgasm)? Wouldn't it be awkward to get wood whenever you're near a forest? lol...

Anyways...

The point I am focusing on for myself is not alternate ways of feeding the beast, but of putting it to sleep and keeping it in deep slumber. I ask, "why am I hungry?" and go seek out the truth of why I get hungry, and then from that realization I find an answer to prevent the beast from waking with its ferocious appetite. You'd think that all the sexualized advertising is part of why, and...it both is and isn't. I believe the reasons are as unique as each and every one of us are unique. What I mean is that the beast resides in our hearts, and while the advertising may call upon the beast to rise up, it is not the advertising itself that is the true cause.

I'll delve into my own story with this in my journal...but if this is a path you, or anyone else, would consider...I encourage you to ask the tough questions and get to the root of the issue. The keys are inside us, find them and unlock yourselves...lock the beast away. Find them by seeking with questions:

"Why am I hungry in the first place?"
"What went into this circumstance that called upon my beast?"
"What is this all connected to in myself?"
"How did this begin?"
"When does this happen?"
etc...

 

Well expressed

I agree with you that sexuality should not be viewed as something sinful, it is a beautiful thing. Perhaps I could have been a bit more clear on that. I wasn’t speaking against sexuality earlier, but how a selfish heart can twist what is good into something sick.

I can see where you see what I’m saying is about bodily denial. From my experience, such a route is short lived. Most only fast for so long before they’ll die. With sexuality, there is only so many times you can say “no” to yourself before something gives way. But then how does what I say earlier make any sense then? I was hoping to relate how the desire can be removed. If there is no desire to deny, then how am I denying my body? It doesn’t call out for these things any longer.

In a way, I feel like I’m a child again. Without the desire...what’s the point of sex? Lol. Without the thing in me to be fulfilled, why should I try to fulfill it? It’s not like I haven’t searched for fulfillment...and here I am, happier without the need. But, that is my path. I know that not everyone can go this way.

What then of your original query? I’d ask you what you believe sexuality is, why do we have it in the first place? If you believe we are sexual beings, what of people like me? How does one such as I fit into the picture of why we have sexuality? Perhaps, so far, we have completely misunderstood one another? Of course, I have my own thoughts about the purpose of sexuality, what it is and how to use it. But, what are yours? So far, I don’t believe I have fully understood you and am eager to see more of your point of view. Would you mind elaborating on the subject from your experience for me?

 

In a general sense all action is tranformative in nature, but when we say transform a particular act (pointed to with a noun) from A to B we of course easily miss that point - and me typing a sentence like this will in itself probably get this post ignored by most because it doesn't fit the MO of confirmation bias. People want the end result, the ending form it changes into rather than transformation itself - and in reality it requires a grasping and holding on to that form because that is considered the desireable one, and once attained one does not want to lose it.

However, life is more about transformation than trying to get and hang on to some ideal form, pleasurable or otherwise. It's this static noun consciousness vs. a dynamic verb consciousness - if there is consciousness about how the map of language influences and confines ones thinking. People are very clear about what they want and end up with very little understanding as to the process of how to get there. Even if you have some map it came from someone else, and even when someone has extensively and experientially explored the territory with said map it is another thing altogether to discover new territory.

Approaching it from another angle, "sex" happens at various levels, including the cells and it is even said thoughts have sex with each other. This is not what's happening when someone has a static idea about sex or anything else, spiritual or otherwise. It doesn't matter if the thought is from an authority, the point is there is not much interaction and nothing new is produced from the interaction. This is also what happens with collective monologues where people state their thoughts as a kind of show and tell but there is no synthesis, no integration and frankly very little intelligence.

The intimate interaction of eating and metabolizing what is eaten is similar, there may or may not be pleasure but there is definitely chemistry. Not that the two needs to be mutually exclusive but referencing pleasure doesn't of course say anything about the nutritional aspect of what is eaten - and also following a traditional recipe is not on the same level as a chef who can create new things, perhaps with nutritional benefit that has not been seen from previous recipes.

Perhaps sex is like cooking in that most go for the pleasure even though a deeper knowledge may actually involve functional health. Looks of course has very little if anything to do with either pleasure or nutrition as far as eating is concerned.

 

Indeed, you are an intuitive one. That you'd consider sharing your own experiences with me shows that much. For just the willingness of such, I am touched.

There is much in your words I have to ponder. I go by a way that is more ancient than religion, the words I follow are written in the dust by the wind. I see the stirrings of the wind within the dust that makes your body, and read the words that are written within you. I do this to know a person by their essence, by their spirit, by the force of life within them. That is what I will set my heart to meditate upon, as I wish to speak words to you that are of spirit and life...full of the essence of what is good for the breath your dust contains.

Know that I am glad to read your words, and am honoured that you'd share them with me so willingly and openly. I'll look forward to seeing what the wind will blow my way for you. Until then

 

I personally think about our sexual needs as an Instinct which main purpouse is to help us survive. I dont think its posible to put this instinct in deep slumber -and if it is- I would say its dangerous. For me embracing is more powerfull than denying. This beast is nothing more than a part of ourselfes. We can keep it in hunger, in a cage, or we can train it to be our ally.
I think you have a point, its not the advertising (for example) what is really triggering, but what lies beneath. This line of questions you mention are helping me a lot also to be clear of what and why I really need. Just noticed that when Im feeling horny -and after applying this questioning- that beneath my hornyness theres another need, the real one. I just get used to think that sexual pleasure is what I need to satisfy my need bt its not, its not the universal panacea.