Question on fapping and addiction

Both pornography and unhealthy masturbation methods are killers when it comes to real-life sex. I know that the "is masturbation unhealthy" topic has been morphing this forum into a battleground for a few days so I'll just post a few links from YBOP :

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/traumatic-masturbation-syndrome
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/weird-masturbation-habits
http://www.nofap.org/glossary/ (check "Death Gripe")

In the end I'm sure that masturbation is not unhealthy as long as you don't masturbate a lot. Else it can cause death grip and stuff even without watching porn while masturbating and make you not able to feel anything during sex.

 

MO is fine? slippery slope heh

Some guys can't masturbate without porn, so when they try and do it without it simply doesn't work.
sexual stimuli in the brain is usually required for orgasm (unless your lil man is super sensitive). Most fabbers get bored with the brain produced imagery, and turn to visuals more exciting.

Many of us can't 'control' and 'enjoy' masturbation. We can 'enjoy' it but by that time we are out of control. we can 'control' it but then we are not enjoying it. Control and Enjoy are usually mutually exclusive - they don't coexist.

but if guys can do this, more power to ya. I couldn't..

 

It's the program I'm on.
I haven't had the kind of terrible urges that I read about on here to watch porn. Granted, it's only been since Sept.7 but I have been MOing a fraction of the amount that I did before, sex with my partner is way more engaged. After 6 weeks anytime I remember a scene from porn, now it is so removed from the original image that I don't consider it porn anymore. Further, I have zero urge to run to the computer to take a peek.
This slippery slope concept needs to be tested.
The idea is- slow and steady wins the race. You can MO without porn. Why is everyone here so afraid to try. Quit relapsing over and over. M is normal and natural if you don't spend hours at it everyday. And if you think that it gave you ED, don't be so sure, what is your proof. Lots of things cause ED. And while I'm at it boys, you don't need an erection to get another person off. It's not all about you and your all important cock.

 

Something comes in my mind. You're always taking about you in your posts when you try to fight this "no-masturbation" thing. Well as I can see, you're not a virgin anymore and you have a partner. Things may be really different for people who have a partner and already have had sex. If you have been masturbating (to porn or not) for years and years and never had sex, you first time is going to be a bad time. That's what happened to me.
Please again don't come and tell me that masturbation is natural and I'm wrong. I say in every posts that masturbation is natural, but can be really unhealthy for people who are addicted to it. This slippery slope concept needs to be tested ? What about taking a look at the Rebooting/Success Stories forum and noticing that :

1)There are relapse stories everyday where people relapsed after masturbating or edging
2)Success Stories > 90 days are really rare.

Don't take this as a rough comment also. I have nothing wrong with this idea. But everybody is different, and you should take note of this when you post.

By the way, while I'm at it too, you don't need an erection to get another person off. But you need it for penetration. Which is an important part when it comes to having sex, especially for young people, who have a lot of unknown things to explore about their partners but need to start with the basics - penetration in that case.

 

i said this many times here. i think masturbation once or twice in a month is not a problem. i cant do it because i would need porn for that. the real problem is when fapping and watching porn becomes an obsession.

it is like drinking one bottle wine or smoking one joint in a whole month - if someone can control this there is absolutely no problem.

in my opinion watching porn is the real evil thing not masturbating. when you did this in combination for many years it is impossible to separate them.

 

If porn is the only problem, minus masturbation and orgasm, then why wouldn't one just stop in the first place and never end up on a Nofap site? In my opinion those that don't fall off the wagon by transitioning to Porn likely never had a problem in the first place. And their solution will not be applicable to the real fapper.

If I had a heart attack I wouldn't want an Optometrist to work on me heh

 

I think even though having orgasms is a natural and healthy urge it can be addictive - proven elsewhere I think. Porn is pretty toxic all the way around. If you have been obsessive about the MO then you should probably take a break from it too - but you don't necessarily have to make rigid rules for yourself or beat yourself up too bad if you "relapse" by MO'ing every once in a while. Like someone above said - it is when you obsess over it / do it for hours where it is a problem. I quit porn about a year ago, and have only MO'd once in that time. I think it was really good for me, but it took A LOT of effort and behavior changes. I have a wife who is happy to have sex three to four times a week - so it is not as huge of a sacrifice as if I were single. Not masturbating has resensitized me and although I have relapsed once, I have mostly been successful with it - and I used to masturbate 10 to 20 times per week for about 25years, look at as much as porn as I could possibly fit in, plus have sex as often as possible on top of that. It has been great and well worth the effort. JS

 

Look at the record. Experience dictates truth. If you can control this, hats off. Many on here can't and wont. We didn't randomly surface on Nofap because we had a mild external problem. Most that masturbate without porn usually wind up with boredom and redundancy. The sense of emptiness and anxiety dictates fabbers to NEED to get off so that they can numb out their existence.. core problem! Sex for self I guess is ok but if it prevents sex with another.. geesh. Sensitize? try playing with that bomb and see how long before it blows and off to the next "chase".

 

I would advice against that, mainly because you might lure yourself into porn and justify for yourself

 

Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj

 

Hi ADC
You know that I'm very careful when I post to never say someone is wrong. I just give my reflections here, as I hope that everyone else gives and gets. I offer points of view that aren't always part of YBOP. I think that the spirit of this forum is to share and compare. I learn a lot when I do that. Such as:
1) From you, just now, I learned that so many here are young men who haven't begun or are very new at sex with partners. I am a 57 year old with two kids, been married twice, once to a woman, now to a man. I have had more sex partners than I can remember. I need to remember that when I construct my ideas here. However, that doesn't change any of my opinions.
2) Unless stated clearly all of the time, people may read my comments as criticism, judgement, or advice. As I stated above, They are just my reflections, and I state them because I see that a lot of these views are not seen here, because they aren't part of the YBOP "program".
3) Part of this process for all of us is to start thinking for ourselves. That may be hard when you are 16-24 years old, but one has to start sometime. This breaking of PMO habits is a great place to start. Crisis is great to motivate change.

IMO, starting sex with partners is rarely easy or fun for any human being. So many of us experience trauma around our first sexual experiences. In this culture, actual useful information about how to approach sex is not passed along by reliable people. Almost everyone is left to figure it out by themselves. There is so much anxiety and uncertainty about becoming sexual. Then along comes Internet Porn. I really feel for you guys who didn't have a chance to come into your sexuality without it. It is a major problem.
So where I'm coming from, is that I think that everyone, if they give up the porn first and foremost, they can move past this "monster" and resume their sexual development. So maybe following the constructs of YBOP is right for a lot of people, but then what. They are careful to say, this is different for everyone. There is no final destination. I'm a mature adult and my sexuality is still evolving.
I think that if someone has developed bad habits around masturbation and or sex, that it can be possible to change those without shutting everything down and waiting it out. Teaching yourself to masturbate in a way that will benefit oneself throughout one's full life could be hugely beneficial. I experience M on two levels, the physical and the mental. The physical act of masturbation will train the mental and vis versa. If we can learn to control our mental arousal and its stimuli throughout masturbation (i.e. control our fantasies [avoid porn and porn memories]), then we can develop a long term best practice (LTBP). If we can learn to control the way that we touch ourselves during masturbation (using a light touch, avoiding squeezing and rough surface rubbing) we also develop LTBP (avoid the "death grip"). We can learn to control when we orgasm and when we ejaculate (for men) also. This can all transfer to sex with partners.
Maybe this is all compatible with a 30-90 day abstinence period. Its just a few thoughts about what to do after.
Trying to stay "sex-postive".

 

Hi Monkotto

I don't think that its impossible to separate Porn and Masturbation. I am seeing now, that for guys who's first O was to internet Porn, have a far different hill to climb than I do. However, my behavior from 1994 until a few months ago was as bad as any that I've heard about here. Daily, sometimes more, hour long, sometimes more, fap sessions to rapid fire porn that escalated into all kinds of genres that I never would have been interested in if they weren't there at the press of a button.
I believe that they can be separated, and maybe a good way to do that, (I said maybe), is to jump right in to correcting your masturbation behavior, as I describe in my previous post.

Fuck dopamine. It explains why we go crazy off into porn, I get that. But its in our bodies, we have to learn how to manage it. Our penises and vaginas are part of our bodies, you can't just pretend that they aren't there. We have to learn how to make them work for us.

 

@dad

i have thousands of pornmovies stored in my head. if i start to fap all this movies will appear in my mind. before this addiction i had only nice fantasies with girls which i liked - while fapping. which have been real girls in my environment. not pornstars and hundred different genres of sexual practices.

you cant put this ghost back into that bottle.

the brain is totally contaminated with porn.

 

D

So true, you have seen things that you would never see in a lifetime of only real sex. I think that is something that we all have to deal with. The first couple of weeks that I MO'd without porn, those images were stronger for me. As I MO now, they are fuzzier and I can even avoid them for the most part.
We need to create new fantasies, or learn how to be sexual without any fantasy at all. Some here have said, then what's the point? The point is to be a sexual person with yourself and others in a healthy way.
BTW, congrats on your really long hard mode. What are your future plans?

 

exactly that is the point - to be a sexual person in a healthy way not a sex fanatic.

future plans?

first goal: 115 days hardmode
second goal: 150 days pmofree
third goal: world dominion

in my opinion a real reboot will last at the minimum two years.

 

Good Luck Monkotto
I have one question for you and everyone else here. Does PMO free mean that one can MO without P? I get so confused here about the blending of these terms. I have a feeling that it might be different for everyone.

 

well I stopped watching porn something like 7 days ago, but because I have a partner I did have sex 3 times during the 7 days which is good because before this we had sex maybe once a week. The interesting thing is that my mind do start to wonder around during sex, looking for porn images in my head or some hot fantasies... but then I concentrate and trying to get back to reality quickly. It is not always easy.

So I know that at the moment to masturbate all alone without porn would be difficult (I wouldnt enjoy it) and obviously I dont want to watch porn so I dont masturbate. It is easy for me of course because I dont stay without sex because of my partner so it must be very hard for a person all alone, no porn no masturbation. I know I would go crazy hehe.