Chaser With a Difference

Colin - have we spoken before here on NF? Forgive me for not remembering...

We have so much in common. Although I'm only 5 yrs into a totally sexless relationship.... So you're ahead

So yeah... I came to a similar conclusion about a mediocre, infrequent sex relationship. None was better. 5 yrs later I'm not so sure.

What I've learned in the last few years is that the reason the infrequent and boring sex was so awful is that I saw it as a reflection on me. I assumed it meant I had no sexual attraction to her. So every time it happened I was reminded vividly that I suck, and I was unimportant to her. That was more triggering ( toward porn) and more painful than just having no sex.

I now see that it's my wife's deal. She is low on empathy- so yes she sorta didn't care much about my feelings/ needs. See had a fucked up adolescence involving sex, and she probably connects a lot of bad memories and feelings to sex. So yeah she really didn't have much desire. But that was all about her- not me.

I made it worse by internalizing the hurt and not talking about it. I also gave up initiating as the only way I could know she was attracted to me was if she initiated. That was wrong of me, probably pushed her in the wrong direction even further.

You seem to be content getting cuddles with nothing else. We have nothing even like that- we occasionally hold hands. That's all the touch I get, and it's my primary LL (see lack of empathy above).

Lately I've really been struggling with the thought that my sex life might be really over. That I will live this way the rest of my life. I have done research and heart search to try to determine if sex and the related intimacy is a true need, or just warped stuff in my head.

I think for me it is a need. At least for me to feel connected and loved. The problem is that I know she will never give me anything more than what we had. So I ask myself "will it be enough?". Or will it just go to same place mentally as I was before? My conclusion is that I am fundamentally different now. That will change things at least in my head. The danger is that I would get myself in a loop if thinking 'if I do x or y z really well, then she will give me the affirmation I desire."

I suspect that I will never get that affirmation- it's just not in her. But I could get sex and some touch and some sort of intimacy. I think now that getting some of what I need is better than the none I opted for 5 yrs ago.

Wow. Long post. Don't mean to hihack the thread. Didn't know I had all that too say! Just kinda came out (even on a phone!! Lol)

 

Thanks for the reply Colin. It is cool that both of you get some intimacy and get some needs meet with the cuddles. Kudos to you both for working that out. I'm envious.

I might be in the place you were where I don't appreciate the simple things without them having a possibility of leading to sex. I'm getting better, but I still blame a lot too.

We are to embark on marriage counseling soonish... I have high hopes for that that I need to temper.

Appreciate the thoughts. So many of the SOs that post here are high libido and it begins to feel like all wives are. good to not be alone.

 

I am so confused by this thread.

11 years in a marriage with no intimacy.
5 years in a "totally sexless relationship" (marriage?)

I hear that both of you acknowledge that this is not right / not healthy .. from your counters, I take it your DDay's were somewhat recent? (in the last many months? or possibly in the last 1-2 years?!?)

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@Colin the Librarian: your marriage sounds like at least you two love each other / hold and cuddle / show affection for each other.

@phuck-porn!: your relationship sounds more like mine -- my wife and I have a strict no-touch boundary; we are sleeping in different bedrooms; my wife doesn't really want to spend time with me. It's only been 8.5 months since our DDay, and it's only been 2.5 weeks since moving home from Europe (after being on separate continents for 3 months). And, I think, our relationship might be taking baby steps towards progress / reconciliation?!

But I very much feel like my wife is still weighing the options of 'Divorce' versus 'Reconciliation' .. i.e. the jury is still out. (although I do recognize that every day I am still in the same house, is a day on the 'Reconciliation' side)

..

But back to this thread => 5 years .. 11 years --- no intimacy .. in one of your cases it sounds like no real connection ("occasionally hold hands"). This reminds me of a comment from yesterday that caught my attention:

(I hope it's ok that I dragged your thread over here and quoted it @GG2002)

 

hmm... well... it IS WEIRD, TH2C! that's why it's hard to understand...

so yeah a lot of parallels. DDay was a long time ago now. of course which DDay... the first was prob 29 yrs ago (we've been married almost 30) - not really a DDay - but the first time I told her and sought counseling. I did not kick it then. cue 25 yrs of marriage, kids, infrequent, mediocre sex. Then 5 yrs ago I got fired for viewing porn at work. single income family. as I got help and began to deal with my stuff, I realized that sex when it happened, was actually more of a trigger to PMO than abstinence (or so I thought). I quit all sex with her, and mostly all other intimacy. she never complained or said a word. she sees this as all my shit. she's waiting for me, I think.

we have no policy on touching - she just never thinks to do it or doesn't want to. I really don't know. we spend more time together now, she doesn't shy away from that; as long as the talk stays surfacy, then we have an enjoyable time. like with a medium good friend. we sleep in the same bed - I touch her sometimes, she never does. she closes the door when changing or showering. I haven't seen her naked in 5 yrs.

She is fully aware of my struggle. but wants no involvement or information. occasionally she asks for an update. she won't talk much about what is wrong between us - but has agreed to go to counseling. We are peaceful.. most of our friends would have no idea that anything is wrong.

so neither of us will divorce the other. for one there's not enough $ for two, and she's 62 and hasn't worked in over 25 yrs. our family and grandchildren are hugely important, and we both realize that if we divorced these relationships would never be the same. and we both treasure those relationships. it's not ugly between us -it's lonely and surface-y and I don't know what.

so I love everything she writes. most likely GG is right for most people. I know I could divorce, live in a trailer, and find a woman with which I could have a better relationship. but I wouldn't have the lovely family times I have now. and I'm not sure my happiness is the highest priority.

 

@Colin the Librarian - this fascinates me. you appear to be saying that you are largely OK with a relationship that includes the intimacy of cuddling, and touch - and does not involve sex, or the hope of sex. I assume you also are emotionally intimate?

I am trying to sort out the "wants" from the "needs" in my life. what you are saying and living I feel is part of understanding that.

 

These ALL describe my wife and I right now...we are both 42 years old. I really don't think either of us wants it to stay like this for the next 5 years! -- we are both pretty miserable..peaceful, yes - but plenty of unhappiness to go around.

...

All of that being said -- it has only been 8.5 months.

 

No, thank you Colin for sharing. Fascinating story. Life is amazing-all the twists and turns.

 

I re-read your post @phuck-porn! .. and it saddens me -- greatly saddens me.

"it's not ugly between us-it's lonely and surface-y" .. WOW, that perfectly describes us as well. I understand the desire to keep the kids (and grandkids) together .. but it's been FIVE YEARS?!? How do you think your kids and grandkids see you and your wife? As a happily married couple? Or as an unhappily married couple?

Have you two really been able to 'put on a good show' of a happy marriage this whole time, all the while she is only your medium good friend? (and I wonder if she would say the same .. or think it's lower than that?)

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For me and my wife -- she is pretty miserable. She has thrown herself into starting/finishing her master; she started working part-time in her field. When she is home, she is pretty distant towards me, and the kids somewhat [she said just the other day that she feels bad for the kids].

I don't blame her -- she looks back over the last 21 years / being married / building our family / investing so much of herself into the kids and I .... only to be so betrayed.

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I don't know what our life will look like 5 years from now -- but I hope and pray that it is more than: "surfacy talk" / "not talking about what is wrong between you" / "lonely and surfacy"

 

I may be in denial, but I think we present as an OK couple. There def isn't any pda, but after 30 yrs that's not so expected. there is no strife or arguing that anyone sees. we treat each other civilly and respectfully. we go on dates. we sit together occasionally. I don't believe the tension is obvious. my wife is much more invested in playing the "everything's fine" role than I am. I sorta think marital probs are part of life - and there's no need to act like otherwise. she thinks it will be bad for our kids to know all is not well.

I actually think she would say higher than "medium good friend." I believe now her requirements for emotional intimacy, and sharing deep things is much lower than mine. thus she is reasonably satisfied with much more of our current relationship than i am. she would like to be more "connected" (her term) but I honestly don't think she terribly misses the physical intimacy.

I don't think my wife is miserable. her personality doesn't really let her do that. she can't feel hopeless about things. all that being said, she has no career, no hobbies. she has thrown herself into religion and the grandchild.

Interestingly, she has also made a 180 degree change in her relationship with each of our three kids. Her natural bent is to be judgmental and controlling. our kids bore the brunt of that - esp the oldest daughter. but my wife has radically and genuinely changed how she relates to each of them -she realizes the judging was really bad, and is now 100% encouraging and non-controlling. it's a truly amazing transformation. Two of the kids especially have responded hugely.

I hope so too, @TryingHard2Change. I really, really hope so for both of your sakes.

 

First , I don’t want to offend anyone . Reading these posts just makes me sad . I kinda get it but still makes me sad . Better to be in a relationship with a friend than alone and lose family ties I’m reading . I don’t know how that is enough for either of you . I was the one betrayed immensely and I’m still HERE in the marriage. I stayed ONLY because I still saw a future . A future that involves healing in every way . Sexually , intimately , friendship , and most importantly physical touch , not just sexually. I actually think it would be unfair to my boys to stay if I didn’t have ALL that . They need to know what love really looks like . The relationships described here would never be enough for me . I think no matter how fucked up the back story is , no matter how badly you fucked up , either with your spouse or alone EVERYONE deserves to be happy . It would be unfair for me to stay in this relationship if I wasn’t going to try to give it my all . Like in my head it’s a year since DDAY no PMO , and I’ve said to myself I’ll give it another year of true hard work from the both of us , if I’m not healed , in the way of trusting than what’s the point . I’d set him and myself free from this wether he would want that or not . But I get it each his own . I just want to hug you both lol

 

Preach it @Qnb42078 !!!

 

By the way @Qnb42078 .. I think your timeline is pretty perfect too. For me and my wife and our situation -- if two full years go by .. and she and I are not able to hold hands / if there is still a tangible emotional barrier that separates us SSOOO clearly .... I don't see how me or my wife would want to live the rest of our 30-40 years on this planet together like that.

Now, when we hit that 2 year point....who knows how I or she may change -- who knows if our perspectives will be different .... more like Colin or phuck-porn -- who knows?

 

That’s why I only speak for myself . I stayed 8 years after the first HUGE DDAY . . Then MAJOR DDAY showed that he never did change and I started to feel off 5 years after that and found he had a secret laptop . Everything made sense . This time he’s def different , and I can tell he’s PMO free . He knows what he’s done , but still I CAN NOT TRUST HIM . I don’t know if I ever will . Time will tell , but I do know I wouldn’t be healthy staying in this mindset and CONSTANTLY TRIGGERED and I then wouldn’t be good for anyone including my boys .