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Here we go again SOs, should the addict disclose his addiction or hide it?

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by GG2002, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    Just a side note, I don't know the context of the conversation with the person you tagged in the OP and I don't think it's misleading - but for perspective I would say disclose everything in context - but - and I know this is my own sensitivity here it also needs to be taken and listened to in context - and the second part where it depends on the other persons understanding is where I have doubts and where I would tend to not even try from the beginning. If the person demonstrates extraordinary thoughtfulness and understanding in another context, that would count for a lot to me.

    Because lets look at the whole "deal breaker" mentality, that means any single thing on a "list" that someone may have would automatically disqualify the person, which is a matter of ignoring context. And frankly even when we work on ourselves and try to have perspective and understand the context of our lives it isn't automatically a given, so there's both actually understanding it and the willingness to disclose it - and the willingness to put forth the effort to understand. I simply do not have faith that most people will put forth that effort.
     
  2. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    This actually in part gets back to the original post I commented on. I basically recommended honesty early on, before sex and before any emotions were formed. My point was that for people that PMO addiction or any addiction is a deal breaker, hiding it from them will not not make it a dealbreaker. Is that what you mean by context, that maybe if you reveal later that you are an addict, that the addiction will no longer be a dealbreaker for the person? I think the chances of that happening are few and far between. I would never date a smoker, or someone that’s been in prison, and finding out later on or in any context would not change my mind on that. That being said there are plenty of people that would be understanding and thoughtful, but you will never know that the person is if you don’t reveal your addiction to them? And the understanding and thoughtful people who may have stayed with you early on if you revealed, most likely will leave as well because they feel they have been lied to. And why would you want to date someone who is not putting forth the effort to understand you? That’s what I don’t get, why would you want to be with someone who if they knew the truth would most likely leave you, or who would not be understanding of your situation?
     
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  3. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    EDIT: I don't. I didn't say anything about wanting to be with someone who would not be understanding, I talked about how the whole process works or doesn't.

    The thing is the deal breaker mentality IS a way to not put forth the effort to understand, even if it's in a limited way. I would not consider all addicts the same, therefore to me that is an oversimplification and a superficial judgement. Why would there be any effort to understand if someone has identified something as a deal breaker? Of course if I suspect that's the way someone thinks I wouldn't even approach them.

    What I mean by context is the persons life context, rather than discrete facts like this person has or had this or that addiction. Now it's fine of course for anyone to make the decision for themselves to just not have to deal with the potential mess an addict could bring into their life, totally understandable. But then I think there are two questions: 1. Does this person believe full recovery is possible, so that there's even that possibility? Maybe the addict has already made a lot of progress. 2. Regardless of considering them as "dating material" (which is again in itself a rather reductionistic view IMO) if they actually base their understanding of the person on what they see, or if it's just filtered through the lens of "addict"? If the latter is true then that is largely their perception. They can be aware of it and be vigilant about that possibility, but again in a dating context I don't see anyone bothering let alone if it is in a casual social context.

    Let me just say I also understand there is a difference and distinction between the person not wanting to deal with the potential mess and judging the person. Someone may have the "policy" (funny language) that they will not date anyone who has ever been an addict without judging those people as people, but again I have this other question whether they are truly open to getting to know them regardless of knowing this fact. In general I think that is questionable anyway, even outside the context of addiction. Is addiction considered black and white? If there is a continuum does the person take into account any difference in severity and the like, and do they even have a way to or the inclination to think about that?

    And my context is I do not have a black and white distinction of what constitutes a date, it is on a gradual continuum. I don't off the bat offer and volunteer I've had a PMO thing, that's just weird. At the same time I would not hide it and certainly if asked point blank sure, I would disclose it. And this may say more about me being judgemental but as I said if I suspect that's how someone is likely to think I wouldn't be anywhere close to dating them in the first place, I can get a sense by the way they process information and assess/judge people in other contexts to extrapolate so there is nothing close to dishonesty and hiding because it would never end up in that context in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  4. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    Or to put it simply, it's so common for people to judge based on very simple bases I do not have the inclination to prove myself to anyone even if I know otherwise - they can have that belief. I'll bet I can spot that a mile away, much earlier than someone could spot people that would withold the info.
     
  5. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    I just wanted to respond to this one part. I agree with you that it is an oversimplification and a superficial judgement. But if my BF and I ended it, PA and even porn I think would be a deal breaker to me in a new guy. Is it fair to the other person, to not even give them a chance? No, but I could not take this kind of pain again. It would be to protect myself. I know that I could miss out on some great people, but I have been traumatized by all of this. I think I'd rather be alone.
     
  6. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    Completely understandable. Though let me point out this as a pattern, if taken far enough can show up in just how someone responds to the opposite sex for example, and there is some validity to that since men in general are more aggressive. Where it's different is of course we would agree porn is inherently bad, and while someone could consider most men bad they would not think of it as complete and absolute.

    And again I ask the question whether any distinction is made, if someone hasn't viewed porn in years but did, does that count? Generally and collectively speaking, how many types of deal breakers are out there and what does that do for people connecting or not connecting? Of course I get that porn gets at the heart of a sexual relationship, and I absolutely agree you have to take care of yourself, definitely. But I think it becomes very academic. It is possible that you meet someone, not even dating but maybe you come to know a lot of their good qualities, and then you find out this one thing. I don't think we can say how we would actually feel until we come to that place, it would depend on WHAT you come to know, really know about them. That in itself is rare and unlikely of course, but my point is it isn't even a list of pros and cons, it's how the person is as a whole and what the relationship (which again can be something non-romantic and objective) is as a whole.

    EDIT: I'm sorry this is of course really outside of the context of this particular forum, this is rebooting in a relationship after all and what I'm getting at is before a relationship is even formed. I'd like to discuss that but I recognize this is not the place and is really about support in particular - but I just don't know where and this comes close.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  7. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Even some of my friends... who are women say "Don't all guys use porn?" and some think I'm over reacting.. of course they do feel it was wrong for him to lie the whole time about it and the hidden debt is an issue to them... but it's as if we accept that men "need" this and some of my friends are actually happy that their man goes to porn so that he leaves them alone sexually... THIS IS SAD to me!!! I start feeling like... am I the odd one out wanting a real honest beautiful intimate sexual relationship with my husband?? What is wrong with the world??
     
  8. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    @BetrayedMermaid my former best friend said that her bf had such a high sex drive and was so disrespectful that she was happy when he went to porn because he left her alone. He was a PA for sure. he would manipulate and guilt trip her into going down on him and having sex with him. She once was sick and puking and she asked him to get her medicine and he was too lazy to get it and when she got back he wanted her to blow him even though she had been sick puking earlier. Its very sad that A. society makes us think men "need" porn, news flash They Dont. B. its sad that mens drives and expectations sexually are so warped that they think degrading emotionless sex is good and expect the women to fulfill every degrading desire which makes women glad that men have porn... it just feeds the cycle.

    Men use porn get brain fucked about what sex is, they go to women with crazy degrading demands, women are upset the sex is just to O and can be degrading and painful so they encourage men to go to porn, and the cycle continues to repeat....

    Why can't men and women have honest talks about sex, their desires, things they might want to try, and repect each others boundaries?

    It's just sad...
     
  9. ThatGirlMarceline

    ThatGirlMarceline Fapstronaut

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    I agree that it is sad but who am I to judge too? If it makes couples happy in this day and age, even though I don't quite understand it, it doesn't mean it's wrong. If no one is getting hurt and porn is ok in relationships then it's ok. Personally myself, like how others have said here, porn crosses that boundary for me now. Before with my ex, I tried to understand and tried to mend my opinion of it so he could keep it. I didn't like it but it didn't become a threat until he threatened suicide over "me and my insecurities" when we fought and battled if porn should be kept in our relationship after i found out he lied out his ass many times that he quit porn for me when he in fact didn't and preferred porn over me. Everything was my fault and my opinions felt invalidated. Now, because of that experience, I can't see me move forward in newer relationships if porn will be a part of it. I believe a couple that loves each other should respect boundaries. Deal breakers and boundaries should be discussed early on and throughout a relationship because that's what healthy relationships do. They communicate openly and respectfully. And of course that comes with full trust with the other person. I learned my lesson the hard way not to trust so blindly. That's my two cents.
     
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  10. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    I think people don't realize it can be better so they settle for porn and the like. It's not about judging, it's about seeing that rather than settling for the artificial.
     
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  11. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    It is the correct place to post it, I started the post and welcome your comments. I do think it is something that needs to be disclosed prior to starting a relationship. It’s not superfical per se or even a judgement, it’s that people do not want addictions in their lives, and they have the right to make that decision.
     
  12. ThatGirlMarceline

    ThatGirlMarceline Fapstronaut

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    Unfortunately, people do settle and tell themselves that things are fine when their gut says otherwise. I was there for 7 years with my ex and I was very naive. What I meant with judgment is who am I to judge a healthy relationship that involves porn that both partners are ok with having in their relationship.
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  13. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    I don't really want to get into it in more detail if we can't look at the details or without resorting to characterizing other people in a stereotypical way, though I appreciate those comments in the longer reply was deleted, I guess. That had some things that were directly contradicting what I already stated and was plainly a psychological assessment.

    I specifically stated I would disclose early on, the fact that you don't volunteer this information *in the very beginning* is a real world scenario. You can ask, but I don't think most people do. The truth is I don't date, I get to know people. That's why I specifically said I would be able to reasonably guess if they were someone that would see things that way and I can even listen and hear when they say so. This can happen way before the first date when you are not even dating but in other social contexts, I believe I already stated that.

    One practical thing that isn't being considered in the little stretch of discussion here is when the other person is in denial of their addiction. You simply can't disclose what you don't recognize. So you can have the list of deal breakers, (and again I don't even think of it as a "deal") but in terms of it working you can only screen that out if they are open and honest. So I just want to point out what you are able to do is screen out people who are honest, that's not a problem, and unless you are perceptive enough you won't screen out those who AREN'T, and I would think those people are the ones that have a more serious condition and that you want to watch out for so I think you have a bit of a problem in terms of working it out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  14. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    I know, but there's judgement in the sense of condemning as bad or not, and respecting people can have their agreements with each other, and understanding how it can impact a relationship right? If we just were doing the nonjudgmental, to each their own thing without looking at the effects then there isn't much to talk about and not much insight to be had.
     
  15. ThatGirlMarceline

    ThatGirlMarceline Fapstronaut

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    It is to each their own for me because I'm not here to judge how other people live their lives. I don't have to tell people how to live their lives and I don't need to have that conversation with people that are geniunely happy with their relationships. In the context of porn, that crosses a line for me. Every person is different.
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  16. Ongoingsupport

    Ongoingsupport Fapstronaut

    Yes, but what I'm saying is we can look at it objectively. Gary Wilson in writing about it in his book is not judging anyone but that kind of analysis is helpful to let people make an informed decision.
     
  17. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yes sorry my iPad is going crazy, it double posted then deleted and ugh! Just to be clear I do ask very early on and I advise every woman I know to do the same. Ask on the first or second date, and that will avoid the addict having the argument that he was not asked. I think women are becoming more and more aware of this issue and so I think you will be surprised how many ask about your porn use very early on. And I just see what you are saying as a way to avoid the inevitable. If we are getting to know each other and I like you and enjoy your company but before we take it to the next level you reveal your addiction I’m going to leave then. I am going to leave three months later if I find out then. That’s usually what a deal breaker is. My best advice is don’t even consider dating until you are a year clean. I suspect that at that time you may have a different perspective on revealing and when. But you need to be upfront when you are getting to know each other yes you do. It really is that simple.
     
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  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I think this is a good thing to consider. Many women do enjoy using porn in relationships and if she’s dating an addict he has to stay sober so that could be a deal breaker. Like if I like a glass of wine at night and the guy is an alcoholic in recovery and can’t have liquor in the house. Dealbreakers are not per se about judgment but compatibility.
     
  19. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I know you may not see this but I see you as trying really hard to find a reason to delay telling. People cannot make an informed decision if they don’t know you are an addict. And people that don’t want to date addicts are not going to date them no matter what you do or so. So find people that are okay with it, don’t try to make people who are not change their minds.
     
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  20. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    I was thinking of this after I made my other reply. Before all this there is very little I would call a deal breaker, and those things would be more along the lines of personality conflict or things like that. Example, I love animals and have many pets. I always have. I could never be with someone who doesn't like pets or doesn't want pets. Or someone who is allergic to say cats. I couldn't be with a smoker, cigarette smoke gives me migraines. Before this PA stuff I would say I have no problems with a recovering addict of most types. People make mistakes and can and do change if they want to. I hate how I have become after this experience. I feel I can't trust anyone sometimes. And I don't think I could risk myself again. Of course that is how I feel now, I couldn't say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't date an addict. But I am pretty set on that now.
     
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