Why do some people here show sympathy to pornstars?

I'm sorry. Mine hurts too, if that helps you.

 

I think the people who are saying 'porn stars are human beings' are being mis-understood. Yes porn is horrible and the things people do, the people they are and who they become in that environment is toxic, however i'm reminded that a basic level of humanity exists in all of us. It is possible to hate the industry, what it stands for and despise the people who work in it, peddle it and push it but at the same time see that there is right now people who have been caught up in it who want to get out but feel trapped by their situation, That is what i care about, whether you are a porn star or a porn addict you are still a human being.

I can tell you i have sat in rooms full of people that have done shitty things, and let their families and themselves down big time through drug addiction, these people whilst at their worst, No they don't deserve sympathy at that time, but when someone is brave enough and has enough courage to admit 'hey i was wrong i need to change' then that's when they start to earn respect. I've seen people change beyond imagination, heroin addicts who were homeless and lied, cheated and stole who turned their lives around and now help other addicts to recover. Some of the women who go and get help for drug addiction have done porn themselves or sold themselves on the street or were abused as children which started a cycle of self esteem problems and looking for acceptance and appreciation in the wrong areas, i'd wager most of them don't do it just to spite men and earn money for the shits and giggles

People get exploited all the time and it's wrong, it's the exploitation that is wrong. The person being exploited could be an eastern european prostitute who's told if she doesn't do porn she will get beaten or the glamorous porn star who cries herself to sleep everynight because she's fed up of being humiliated and having to rely on booze or drugs or getting another test done for syphilis. There is a human side to everyone and what i've learned in my years being porn free is that we are the ones we hurt the most with our anger and we cannot blame others for our own shortcommings, we can identify influences and make changes but utlimately when it comes down to it, every person is responsible for their actions. In our case we were never truly 'forced' to watch porn at gun point, nor were we threatened that if we didn't watch it bad things would happen. As humans we are all fallible and imperfect we of all people should be wary of judging others based on what you see on the surface.

Compassion, empathy, humility are three things i believe the recovering porn addict would benefit from understanding and practicing

 

I don't think you are. I was asking whether you were speaking from experience as a rhetorical question. The point I was trying to make is that, frankly, I don't believe you have any experience as a porn actor, and I find your lack of empathy for such people kind of sad. If I didn't make that clear in my original post, hopefully it's clear now.

Okay, but that still doesn't answer my original question. I was asking why such porn is any better or worse than 'simple fucking'. Is it the fact that it's a "joke"? Is it the fact that it's advertised on social media? If so, why? That's all I'm asking. I'm not doubting your reasoning or even disagreeing with you, I just want to know why you think it's worse.

I'm not following your argument here. I understand the argument that it is unethical to manufacture and market an addicting product for the sake of financially exploiting unstable people, but I don't think that the actors in porn movies are necessarily responsible for the manufacturing and marketing of porn. If I work for a company that does something unethical, does that mean I don't deserve empathy? Does that make me a bad person? Does that make me less of a human being?
If your answer is 'yes' to any of those questions, then ask yourself these: what if I was forced or coerced to work at this unethical company? What if I felt like my only choice was between working at this unethical company and starving on the streets? What if I myself am trying to support an addiction (maybe one that's even more expensive and harder to satisfy than pornography, like meth or cocaine), and the only way for me to reliably satisfy my addiction is to work for the greasy, exploitative people who run this unethical company?
Look, man, I'm not trying to say that I support the porn industry or the exploitative marketing that shoves porn in the face of addicts. I'm just saying that not everyone who works for the porn industry is a bad person. I just don't think things are that black and white, and for that reason, I empathize with porn actors. I'm sure a lot of their lives are really hard, and I don't think many of them are happy about the fact that they work in the porn industry, whether they're 'simply fucking' or doing BDSM stuff. In fact, working in porn might be something they have to try to cover up for the rest of their lives while trying to hunt for a more stable job. That's gotta be a shitty thing to go through.
Finally, if you're talking about some sort of niche sector of the porn industry where an actor is a jack of all trades, where someone produces, stars in, manages, and markets pornography all by themselves, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. First of all, I think the odds of someone actually being successful with that (at least, to the point where they can live off of their earnings from it) is about as likely as becoming a YouTube star. Also, I'm talking about people who work in the porn industry because they feel like acting in porn is their only option, and if someone has the means to pull off a successful series of porn all by themselves, I don't think they fall under that category anyway.

I don't think you're advocating for the hatred of porn stars, but if you're saying that they're less-than-human because they act in porn, then I have to disagree. I also don't know why you think that actors are 'now rarely forced into it'? Where's your evidence for that? The more I look into it, the more I find myself drawn to the opposite conclusion. Most female porn stars in the US make less than $50k per year (https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-porn-star), which is less than the average income of a US household. Even in those cases, you'll find (according to https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/20/porns-dirtiest-secret-what-everyone-gets-paid.html) that the only way an actor could conceivably make that amount of money acting in porn is if they fall under one of these categories:

• you're extremely popular. This would be analogous to a musician becoming a rock star
• You do other sex work like escorting and working in strip clubs.
  
• You work in fetish scenes that have high demand and no other actors are willing to act in those scenes.

If you don't fall under one of those categories, you're probably going to be making poverty-level wages on acting in porn. Also, that's only considering female porn actors. Male porn actors have it even worse. Why would someone in the US get involved in a career that:

1. Doesn't even pay as much as an average job unless you 'catch a lucky break' like a rock star or do other degrading sex work
2. Risks your sexual, mental, and physical health
3. Isn't a stable job (according to this article, the average porn actress only works for six months before they're out of work: http://www.mandatory.com/girls/1053253-18-shocking-porn-statistics-you-didn-t-know). Once your body can't do the work anymore, you're fired.
   
4. Since it's contract work, it offers none of the benefits that a more stable job might offer (like medical benefits, a retirement plan, dental, etc.)
5. Puts a black mark on your resume where you either have to admit to a future employer that you were a porn actor or have to excuse away a gaping hole in your resume that's there because you were acting in porn at that time.
6. Doesn't even pay you the full average salary when you first start. Many porn actors don't even make that full 50k per year until they've already become well established in the industry.
7. Is generally not fulfilling work, where your manager is a sleazeball who exploits addicts and your coworkers don't care about you at all.

I don't think any reasonable person would get involved in this line of work unless they were coerced, manipulated and led to believe that it was a more glamorous line of work than it actually is, or simply feel like there's no other option for them. So, I actually do believe that many porn actors are, in one way or another, forced into this line of work just based on the career description alone.

I don't buy this argument at all. The fact that it's a legitimate business or that there are lots of new recruits every day does not mean that these people aren't coerced into doing what they do, or that they're happy with their lives. In fact, I think those illusions of glamour and cheap thrills you see on social media are a large part of what drive naive and vulnerable people to get sucked down into the porn industry.

Overall, I just don't agree with you. I think that porn stars are just as human as you and me, and I think that they are often coerced or persuaded to choose this line of work. Finally, I don't think that their being a part of the porn industry makes them any less deserving of empathy, even if you think the porn industry is unethical or that the marketing behind it exploits addicts. I hope I was able to convince you to see things the way I do.

 

I have no clue since I've never ever bothered tracking them irl or looked at their real names.

I would like to make a general point though, which is that objectivity tends to go out the window with any sort of sympathy. It may be right to support people but lack of clarity doesn't help. Confirmation bias, echo chambers, even mob mentality can spring from sympathy - even if it is a relatively mild version. Groupthink for another, polarized side taking. People don't want the truth at a certain point, they want support for their position - but that's very different from support to heal.

 

As I said, I have a different opinion here. The word "addiction" suggests, that it is something, which impacts your life in a negative way. This is also supported by the definition of addiction by ASAM, which characterizes addiction by specificly negative criteria. So an "addiction" to eating healthy or working out doesn't exist. It's any oxymoron. You can't be addicted to something good. Also habit does not equal addiction. Every addiction stems from a habit, but not every habit becomes an addiction. Addiction is much more severe and deeper than a normal habit. Are you "addicted" to brushing your teeth with your left (or right) hand? Or are you "addicted" to tying your left (or right) shoe first? No, you're not. You have a habit, but not an addiction.

However, a habit of eating healthy or working out can become obsessive and/or compulsive. But in this case, it's not something positive anymore, since it applies to the criteria of addiction given above and impact you in a negative way. You can develope an addiction. I think we both would agree, that a real addiction to working out for example is better than an addiction to heroin or alcohol of course, but it still has the negative aspects specific for addiction. If you want to name this a "positive addiction", then go ahead. But I don't think that's the way to go.

 

I agree. I think calling an addiction positive is just a misuse of the word 'addiction'.

P.S. I saw an earlier post in this thread where you were concerned about wasting your efforts on this thread. I wouldn't be concerned about that. The issues we're discussing are important, but they're also complex, and discussing them is the only way we're going to find clarity on the matter. We might not all agree on everything, but if we remain civil we may be able to understand one another's positions and then we can criticize, reflect, learn, and grow. To go even deeper, I think it's very worthwhile to debate semantics, like whether or not 'positive addiction' is an oxymoron. Semantics are the rules by which we understand what we're talking about, and if we don't agree on semantics, then we won't be talking about the same things. Without clear, agreed upon semantics, our conversations will be like ships passing in the night. As I've already said, I think the issues we're talking about are important and that we ought to discuss them, so we need to be clear about what we're saying.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I appreciate the effort and civility you've put into this thread, and I don't think it's a wasted effort.

 

i definitely understand how you feel when you say they dont deserve it, i mean look at all the crap the industry their in has caused all of us?

But in reality, none of those women are truly happy or truly fulfilled with what their doing. They ran away from other problems in their life to a world where they feel accepted because of the things they do on canera. Not only that but its a very licrative business unfortunately so combine that with a fake feeling of acceptance and you get someone willing to do whatever it takes to get that. They could probably be SOOOO much better if they faced reality and faced their fears and strived to be a better person just like all of us are doing but their taking the easy way out because they have “talent” and physical appearance that makes them feel “accepted” thats why many of us feel sorry for them yet hate them for the addiction we have

 

The hatred and toxicity of this forum almost makes me want to delete my account. The inability of the people on NoFap to accept that they are the reason they are addicted is ridiculous.

 

There is one porn star
I saw her interview in which she described living with 48 foster parents
She also told about mental and physical abuse
After that I was not able to watch her work again
And I developed some strange affection towards her

 

Way to completely dismiss someone's point without actually addressing the words they said. Do you always talk down to people who are younger than you just because they're younger?

Marketing people use sex in their advertising because it's effective. Whether that's ethical or not, it's still your responsibility to respond to those triggers in a healthy manner. Ultimately, your actions are your own responsibility, and if you choose to watch porn you can't hold marketing people responsible for that.

 

Hey, thanks for respecting my opinion despite my age, that means a lot.

 

I get why they are mad too, but I think they should take a look at these people outside of porn. In a non-sexual situation that really helped me not have so much hate for them and humanized them a lot for me.

 

You're right I shouldn't be so hasty because of a couple bad seeds.

 

This comment resonates with me. I've seen a lot of hatred of women on this forum.