1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

A good diet!

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by HatePorn, Apr 25, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Wow I feel sorry for your clients, especially when their trainer doesn’t understand that protein builds muscle not carbs. Carbs assist with energy, they do not build muscles.

    http://www.metabolismandmedicine.com/2016/01/do-we-need-carbs-to-build-muscle.html?m=1

    https://www.ruled.me/mythbusting-training-on-keto-diet/

    Also meet Luis Vallasenior founder of Ketogains and someone who’s been fallowing a ketogenic diet for 20+ years.

    70027405-DAFF-491A-97A4-BD614EA300F3.png

    Yeah he doesn’t look muscular at all! :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2018
  2. HatePorn

    HatePorn Fapstronaut

    Keto is working...so far everything what was said here by others is true, and stop hating...
     
  3. Also no one here is advocating that keto is the end all be all approach to diet and muscle growth. For some eating a diet with adequate protein, high carbs, and low fat has worked perfectly fine, but to act like that’s the only way to build muscle or that carbs are necessary for muscle growth is ridiculous. Keto is completely healthy and works perfectly fine for strength and muscle gains.

    The fear-mongering regarding low carb is complete bs and no trainer/nutrionist is doing their client a service by not providing it as an alternative solution.
     
    HatePorn likes this.
  4. VirilitySupreme

    VirilitySupreme Fapstronaut

    80
    256
    53
    I am waiting for your picture man ! Not some guy that you found on the Internet.


    For every article you find about a topic, you will find another one saying the complete opposite:

    https://www.muscleforlife.com/low-carb-diet/

    I am talking from experience and I have yet to find a man that looks great, is strong and feels great on Keto.

    Like I said, Keto has it's uses, but posting an article you got Online and showing me a man that weighs 165 Lbs as a proof that you don't need Carbs to build muscle is not cutting it for me.

    Here is me at 200 Lbs with around 80 Lbs between my legs:

     
  5. First off I’m not a bodybuilder so my picture is irrelevant nor would my picture if I was physically fit make my advice automatically correct. That guy is also one of my coaches so he’s not just some random person I found on the internet.

    Yes articles upon articles upon articles and all of them show that both paths work. Yours isn’t providing anything new nor is it actually taking the various ways the ketogenic diet can be modified and worked based on goals; more specifically body recomposition. Obviously energy intake, calories in vs calories out, is going to matter regardless. I’ve seen guys bulk on Oreos but so what? The belief that you cannot bulk on fat is bs as well and the second article I presented already tackled the issues with glycogen.

    You’re talking from a closed minded view which isn’t uncommon for a lot of people in the fitness world. If you want to see plenty of men and women who look great on keto then you’re more than welcome to join the ground on Facebook.

    Please by all means come and get educated, what do you have to lose?:

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/864805400196978
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2018
    HatePorn and Deleted Account like this.
  6. HatePorn

    HatePorn Fapstronaut

    I can confirm your article is a total bullshit. How do I know that? Simple, when the author (or any other hooman) contradicts himself, most of the time he is a liar or writing bullshit for attention, thats just how the world works, you would realize it if you stop being ignorant and pay attention to details, for example you missed a lot of details in my first post, thats how I know we arent on the same page, I said I want to loose belly fat, I already have lots of muscles. Anyway, if you would check the links that your beloved author provided (but I am sure you didnt check), you would also say that he is a bullshiter, I will show how he is bamboozling people, I know you just wanted to prove that you can find any article you want to prove your point, but I will show you how can you separate a good article from a shitty one, if you want to believe me or not, its your problem and I dont care if you believe me, you judge for yourself.

    First your hero said:
    Later one of his comment:
    I agree with the second one, but it contradicts his first statement.

    Next
    Here is another article by him, he clearly didnt do his research on keto diet, there are many plans, for gaining muscles, for loosing fat and so on...but he choose not to mention these plans https://legionathletics.com/ketogenic-diet/ he ignored all the people from reddit and facebook that had reported success with keto diet.

    Next
    Lets see his sources that he provided
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15148063
    In this study they said:
    He provided a link that contradicts his article, genius *clap* *clap*

    This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538279/
    The same shit

    This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12761364
    Same shit, contradiction

    This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058203
    Same shit, contradiction

    Other his links is either other his bullshit articles or studies that have to do absolutely nothing with what I want, fat loss.

    So, do you have a better article?
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  7. VirilitySupreme

    VirilitySupreme Fapstronaut

    80
    256
    53
    Uh huh.
     
    HatePorn likes this.
  8. HatePorn

    HatePorn Fapstronaut

    Mate, I didnt say it in a bad way, you were right you can find any article you want, but I showed that in two contradicting articles at least one of them is telling a lie, always.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  9. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

    482
    477
    63
    The main problem is combining High Carb and High Fat in a diet. Foods that are high in both Fat and Carbs are the most fat gain promoting and least satiating foods. This combination doesn't exist in nature. That's why we love it so much. Our bodies don't know how to handle that.

    Now I recommend a high carb low fat plant based diet. Why? Because in the long term this is the most succesful approach. Low carb and ketogenic diets like shown above cause weight loss faster. Now this doesn't mean they are better for losing weight long term A diet should always be measured by how succesful it can keep people slim and healthy long term. Low carb and ketogenic diets are so popular because they trick people into thinking they are losing body fat when they are really not. When you significantly lower your carb intake or eliminate it alltogether your body will use up the glycogen (carbs stored in your muscle and liver). Glycogen holds water. So when this glycogen gets used up as energy the water is released and you just pee it out. That's the simple reason people on low carb diets lose weight more quickly. It's an illusion. It's not actual fat loss. The water + glycogen loss can account for up to 3 kg of weight loss depending on how tall/muscular a person is.

    There is also no long term data that shows people on ketogenic/low carb diets are healthy. All the populations that are slim and have a very long life expectancy live on high carb plant based diets. There is not a single succesful population that lives on low carb diets.

    Just base your diets around unprocessed starches and legumes, add some fruits and vegetables, limit the oils and voila, you'll lose fat slowly but consistently and can keep it off permanently if you don't change the diet after losing the fat. You don't have to count calories since the foods are very satiating and even if you should somehow overeat you won't really gain fat since carbs are not efficiently converted to fat.
     
  10. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

    482
    477
    63
    Stop telling people lies. There is no long term evidence for the possitive health effects of ketogenic diets. It's the opposite. Ketogenic diets, when they are based on animal foods are chronic disease promoting. The best diet for heart health is a low fat high carb vegan diet since this group has by far the lowest risk of heart disease and a high carb low fat vegan diet is the only diet that was succesfully used in reversing heart disease. You're essentially promoting the diet that is the cause for the number. 1 killer in the western world and claiming that it is good for heart health. Suprise. It is not. The majority of research clearly shows that saturated fat and cholesterol are the main cause of heart disease. Can you actually show some evidence for your claims?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16250264
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828712 Yeah, high saturated fat diets promote inflammation which you consider to be the cause of heart attacks. So why do you promote a high saturated fat diet?
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/circulationaha/108/22/2757.full.pdf
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16904539
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7019459
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17364116
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2125600/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28444290/

    I mean, you can promote whatever diet you want for weight loss. A ketogenic diet can result in weight loss if done correctly but should never be promoted for health. So please, don't post an article by a single doctor without any scientific evidence and claim that inflammation is the cause of heart disease. The scientific consensus is clear that the cause of heart disease is a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  11. Agreed.

    This is a halft truth. Yes initially water weight is lost which results in a quick drop in the scale; however, body fat is also lost unless you’re contending that the 3 years I’ve been on a ketogenic diet and the 300lbs I’ve lost have just been water weight. Ha! Right!

    A lack of long term data doesn’t necessarily make something bad or sub optimal. Successful populations that have lived a ketogenic diet would be eskimos and the aborigines in Australia.

    Funny thing is I haven’t been lying at all.

    CONCLUSIONS: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20071648/

    And
    http://www.naturaleater.com/science-articles/Saturated-fat-not-major-issue-bmj-malhotra.pdf

    Oh and no long term data for ketogenic patients, really?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29199027/?i=11&from=long term ketogenic

    Oh and this one:
    CONCLUSIONS: The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19641727/

    But wait lower LDL and increased HDL? But how Red Eagle if there eating so much saturated fat?

    I mean what’s this?:
    Conclusions
    Recent randomized controlled trials document that low-carbohydrate diets not only decrease body weight but also improve cardiovascular risk factors. In light of this evidence from randomized controlled trials, dietary guidelines should be re-visited advocating a healthy low carbohydrate dietary pattern as an alternative dietary strategy for the prevention of obesity and cardiovascular disease risk factors.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4351995/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19793510/?i=19&from=ketogenic diet and cholesterol and triglyceride levels

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26791181/


    Funny how we use corn and grains to fatten up animals but we seem so convinced that a diet rich in these things will somehow do the opposite for us? lol

    If you two have clients then I feel sorry that they’re not getting the best advice or alternative solutions because you’re stuck in your ways.
     
    HatePorn likes this.
  12. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

    482
    477
    63
    I never claimed that. I said ketogenic diets can lead to weight loss if done correctly. I don't refute the fact that people have lost weight on these diets but that doesn't make them healthy.

    The eskimos and the aboriginis are not succesful populations. They are peoples living on the extremes of the environment which forces them to take on an extreme diet.

    Here is some info on the Inuit.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/neal-barnard-md/eskimo-myth_b_5268420.html
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361360598X

    The Horus study shows that mummified remeains of the Inuit had atherosclerosis. Note that from all populations they had the highest percentage (60%)


    Well you haven't been lying I give you that. You're just uninformed. This study you linked was conducted by Ronald M. Kraus who received funding from the meat and dairy industry.
    https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/mar/krauss2.htm
    https://slidex.tips/download/curric...-adjunct-professor-department-of-medicine-uni

    Here he is listed as a speaker for the Cattleman's Beef association and a Member of the National Dairy Council.

    I wouldn't trust a study that says cigarettes aren't health damaging that is funded by the tobacco industry. Would you?

    Also the study is backed by the national dairy council making it completely untrustworthy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824152/

    Pls click on author information and you'll see it.

    This is just an article not a scientific study. This guy also references Ronald M. Kraus which doesn't make him really trustworthy.


    I read the study. It doesn't state the cholesterol levels of the patiens just the SDS (Standard Deviation Scores). If the study was conducted with people who already had high cholesterol then finding a reduction of total cholesterol, ldl and hdl is not a big surprise. You can put a person with a total cholesterol of 250 on a calorie restricted ketogenic diet and see their cholesterol drop. Try the same with people who are in the healthy range of cholesterol meaning <140 mg/dl and you'll most likely get an increase. If you can find me a study that shows that people on ketogenic diets are in the healthy range for both total cholesterol and ldl cholesterol we can talk further. Calorie restriction often leads to reduction in cholesterol just on it's own. That doesn't proof it is healthy.

    Read the full text.


    Haha lol. If you read the full text and find out the ldl cholesterol levels and transfer them from mmol/dl to mg/dl you find out that they dropped form 159.657 mg/dl to 128.505 mg/dl. Ok fair. The problem is just that 128.505 mg/dl is still in the high range for cardiovascular disease risk. LDL Cholesterol is supposed to be in the range from 50-70 and not in the 120s. That's what I said earlier. If you take people with high cholesterol and put them on a calorie restricted ketogenic diet you'll find that their cholesterol drops. But not in the healthy range.

    Total Cholesterol dropped from 208.333 mg/dl to 184.969 mg/dl which is still to high. Total cholesterol should be below 140 mg/dl.

    The rise in hdl is easy to explain. If you actually bothered to read the study you'd find out that 80% of fat was unsaturated which increases hdl cholesterol. Unsaturated fat means plant fats. So the participants most likely ate a lot of oil.

    Still you have failed to come up with valid research showing that Ketogenic diets are good for heart health.


    The choices of fat and protein sources in a low-carbohydrate diet may affect the risk of subsequent cardiovascular disease. Indeed, a prospective cohort study of 82,802 U.S. nurses reported that a low-carbohydrate dietary pattern which incorporated a high intake of vegetable protein and unsaturated fat was associated with a lower risk of coronary heart disease over 19 years of follow-up [74]. In contrast, a low-carbohydrate dietary pattern accompanied by a high intake of animal-based protein and fat was not associated with a lower risk of cardiovascular disease, but associated with higher all-cause mortality in both men and women [75].

    This is a quote from the study you posted:
    The low-carbohydrate diet and cardiovascular risk factors: Evidence from epidemiologic studies

    Now I completely agree with this. Above I linked a study that showed that low carb diets are beneficial to health AS LONG as they are based on plant sources of fat not on animal sources meaning unsaturated fats over saturated fats. The problem is that most keto and low carb followers misinterpret studies like this and think eating high animal product diets are healthy. So for anyone reading this. If you want to follow a low carb/keto diet, do it right. Eat plant sources of fat and not animal sources.

    The second study you linked is interesting.

    This cohort study observed a moderately increased IHD risk for the sum of longer-chain SFAs (lauric acid through stearic acid), whereas for short- to medium-chain SFAs [butyric (4:0) through capric (10:0) acid] no associations with IHD were observed.

    Finally, different food sources of SFAs may modulate the effect of SFAs on IHD risk. The major food sources of SFAs are of animal origin, including meat and dairy products. In addition to the difference in specific SFAs in these products, other nutrients in these foods (and the way they interact with SFAs) could affect the risk of IHD. Accordingly, in the MESA (Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis) cohort, each 5-g/d intake of dairy SFAs was associated with a 16% lower risk of IHD, whereas each 5-g/d intake of meat SFAs was related to a 29% higher risk of IHD (15).

    This is from the full text.

    Now the study is published in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition by the American Society for Nutrition. The Society has many corporate affiliations and thus probably financial interest.

    https://www.foodpolitics.com/2013/1...tion-societies-american-society-of-nutrition/







    Now this doesn't say a lot. It just says that low carb diets may lead to weight loss and an increase in hdl which they of course can if done correctly. The abstract doesn't mention ldl cholesterol.


    Well, livestock animals have a different metabolism than we do. They are primarily designed to eat gras which they eat a lot of. When they eat that same amount in grains of course they will gain weight. They are not humans and have a different natural diet. Gras mostly. De Novo Lipogenesis (the conversion of carbs to fat) is only a minor pathway in humans but a major in lifestock animals like cows and pigs. Not to mention that we have bred them to put on weight more easily. So of course they are gonna gain weight, especially when they eat a diet that is not meant for their digestive system.

    Now if you wouldn't be so far removed from reality and took a look around the world or in a history book once in a while you would realize that the every major succesful population on the world has lived on grains. Maybe you should fly to rural china and observe how all those people eating rice three times a day are obese, right? Ever heard that there is an obesity epidemic ever since chinese people started eating more animal products and less rice?

    I don't have clients, I am just educated about the topic unlike you who gives people dangerous advice that could kill them long term.

    You actually think high animal food/low carb diets are the best advice? Keep living in your little dream world but stop giving people dangerous diet advice.

    I could just say that you're stuck in your ways too. I posted research that clearly states that saturated fats and high animal food diets promote chronic disease especially heart disease. You weren't even able to comment on a single study I posted and I showed you that most of your studies are garbage when taking mortality into account. The only study that supports your view is the dutch study which has very likely corporate affiliations.

    Now to summarize: Low Carb diets are not necessarily bad for health. If they are based on plant sources of fat they can actually be health promoting and lower the risk of IHD. Animal based low carb diets on the other hand are a clear risk factor for all cause mortaliy and should not be advocated as beneficial to health.

    Diets should be based on unprocessed plant foods rich in fiber, vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. These diets are the most sustainable for long term weight loss, satiety, health and environmental impact.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
    Deleted Account likes this.
  13. Thanks for the response and the correction. I don’t know a lot about these studies but I’m trying to learn. My low carb diet unlike the many that people push is not filled with bacon, red meat, butter or other fattier cuts of meat. Mine has primarily been lean protein from poultry and fishc plenty of fiberous green vegetables, and my fats have been from avocados, nuts, and oils (olive and coconut).

    Sadly when most people think of a ketogenic diet they think of bacon burgers with pounds of cheese on them chased with coffee that are filled with butter and fat. I don’t agree with that approach and I speak against it when I’ve seen others promote it.

    As someone who was vegan for four years I never felt satiety and I constantly had hunger problems. On this ketogenic diet with lean animal protein and plant fats I no longer have that problem.

    Again I’m not against a vegetarian diet, I’m just against the idea that it’s the only healthy path when it’s not. I’m also not a supporter of ketogenic diets that high in dairy, processed foods, or lots of red meat.

    Again thanks for you time and response. I did enjoy reading it and I’m looking forward to learning more as I go.
     
  14. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

    482
    477
    63
    You're welcome.

    Ok it's great to hear that you focus on plant sources. Still, I don't know how much of your diet is fish and poultry. Both still contain saturated fat and cholesterol even the lean parts. If you only eat them in small quantities you shouldn't have any major problems. But you should still get your blood lipids checked. It's in your best interest to know your cholesterol score since these diets can be detrimental to health if done incorrectly.

    What did you eat as a Vegan? As a Vegan you should mainly focus on unprocessed grains. At least 70-80% of your diet should consist of them. Many people make the problem of eating way too many vegetables when they go vegan and they fall of the bandwagon. You cannot base a diet around vegetables. People need to stop fearing grains and complex carbohydrates. The propaganda that they are damaging to health and unnatural to the human diet is ridiculous.

    Here is a study on the satiety of foods:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15701207_A_Satiety_Index_of_common_foods That's the link for the full pdf.


    Great to see you have an open mind. Hope you learned something from this.

    Cheers.
     

Share This Page