I just don't get the NO PMO opinion.

Because that is the way of the superior man.

 

The superior man will not ejaculate at all. And will spend years in physical AND mental celibacy at a time. Allowing the body to fortify itself with the food consumed and the energetic aspect to become a mighty weapon of high efficiency and aim.

 

Because we're more like dopamine addicts I guess and M still gives you that rush. I can't speak scientifically but I can speak from experience.

I went 77 days and 50 days celan from P but not MO and felt like shit through most of the days and then felt better after relapsing. Not just in the moment but in general my mind was better.

This time I've been fully clean and around day 37 I was feeling improvements. I had some level of confidence, less depression, waaaaay less anxiety and even felt self love which Ive never been able to. This steak has also been full of ups and downs and the highs have been extremely high while the lows have been crippling.

I see all this as your brain not really getting fixed while you let yourself M. Just based off how crippling the lows have been I feel like my mind wasn't changing back then but now it is. Plus I've actually felt improvements which I didn't even have for a second during the 77.

Its basically just a lose lose situation. You're not getting entirely clean AND you're not getting the entire high that you want.

 

Quality

 

Most people on NoFap believe that not masturbating and not having an orgasm makes the reboot process more effective and faster. For me this sounds logic. Surely this is not the easy way, because of that it is called the hardmode. So for rebooting from porn addiction it may be an advantage to abstain for a certain time.

In my opinion nothing is wrong with having an orgasm. But I think it is an misconception that abstaining from orgasms is the same as loosing our sexuality. It can be one´s way to positively express their sexuality. I mean, if you have the feeling you win anything instead of loosing something if you don´t have an orgasm, it can be very fine. But not for everybody.

I think like everybody else here you have to find out what is best for yourself and for reaching your personal goals. There are many people here with an hidden agenda, they want everybody to force to their oppinion and their way of life, don´t lend them your ear.

 

Every body reacts different. Some do never have wet dreams.
But I don´t think the ejaculation is the "problem", because the reboot happens in your head. It´s more about breaking up the mental connection between orgasm, masturbation and watching porn.
My experience with abstinence from masturbation was, that because of this I was forced to think much about my own sexuality, what made me understand and solve a couple of sexual-related issues in my life.

 

There's a distinct difference in terms of mental effects between a wet dream and M.

Wet dreams just amount to "Great....gotta clean this shit up". MO (based off personal experience) feels like a mini relapse. Brain fog and depression kick in afterwards and in general you just feel worse than before. Again, I cant speak scientifically but im sure there's something scientific behind it.

Also, its not necessarily true that you'll have wet dreams like that if you abstain from M. I've only had 2 wet dreams in 65 days but they used to be more common, so thats another example of the body changing and adjusting.

 

Sounds very reasonable to me.

 

Hey Ricardo. If you haven't already I would suggest that you look into the link labeled "about" at the top of this page. That will go a long way toward answering your questions.

 

Wow, after a year you still felt it? That's kinda horrifying to think about.

 

That is a misconception born from a mind swimming in lust. Thinking somehow sex is its purpose. The body looses untold amounts of nutrients in every ejaculation. To create life you need to give life. If you have a rock and you want two rocks to hold in each hand, you need to break a big and mighty rock into two average pieces. The people who are only anti porn are complete nuts. They will never enter history because they constantly split themselves and throw the fresh pieces of rock away, remaining average.

Redboxs and jJacksons experiences simply prove this. Among millions of others..

I see it like this:

The brain IS A PART OF the body. So first step, yes, is to take back your mind. Control it. Be it. Have a self behind those eyes that wills. Instead of being an inteliggent robot.

The next step is master your temple, your full being. How can the brain claim to be strong when the body is bleeding?

There is a HIGH correlation between willpower and exercise. And eating healthy. Also, attention span, charisma and other qualities of self/mind.

Essentially, if you look at the nutrient content of what is ejaculated you find it takes many meals over many days or weeeks, months to accumulate what is one friday morning wank load. How can such a body be healthy? How can such a brain be mighty and superior to others? Its like fasting nonstop. Eating just enough to get by.

 

So is your conclusion, not to masturbate at all, absolutely, or do you see a chance, let's say once a month or so?
And what about orgasms (with a partner) ?

 

The way I see it, porn is just a means to an end. If you watched porn without ever M-ing or O-ing to it then it wouldn’t have near the impact on you. We don’t fap to watch porn, we watch porn to fap. Fapping has the same affect on the mind and body regardless of what you fap to. You’re still getting off to your mind’s idea of a perfect fantasy or fetish and not stimulating it with real human contact. And for longtime addicts it’s even worse. I strongly argue against PMO, period, if you are trying to recover from years of abuse. I would tell someone who never looked at porn in their life that the occasional fap is okay, but since that can often lead to porn addiction through increased interest in hardcore fetishes, I’d say it’s better to stay away from all of it…

 

If you just did P alone you would soon do and soon would do O. Its that simple. Ted Bundy himself said a lot of these sexuallly charged people have a heavy use of pornography.

The fact is the more you dwell the mind on somethig the more absorbed it becomes on the matter. Every lustful thought releases special hormones in the bloodstream and start chemical chain reactions.

Now the average guy may discipline himself long before going into no-go sexual zones like rape or child..

Chemically at least, the only kind of reboot that makes sense is monkmode. And porn in any kind is simply destructive. So that should have never started. Also masturbation is anti-social so that should have never started.

Sex with opposite sex and hardmode. But sex is not designed to be done weekly or something. Look at how animals do sex.

 

The goal of this forum is not to abstain from sexual activity, it is to quit porn. P is a supernormal stimuli and our brains never evolved to handle such a dopamine overload. The goal of this forum is to re-wire back into every day life and quit P for good.

Some find it easier to quit both masturbation and P together, but we are not against masturbation. You need to find what the right thing to do for yourself is as each of us is different. Masturbation is not good or bad, it is a tool you can use if you wish. The P is what we are all fighting.

 

I was saying that if you never fapped to porn and had the ability to abstain even after viewing it, it will not affect you the same way as fapping to it daily. And contrary to what you seem to think, both porn and masturbation are addictive and can lead to bad things. From your comment you don’t seem to be familiar with the concept of sperm retention, so I would highly suggest you research this topic. You will find many things out that you currently are not aware of. And yes, porn is the primary foe that we are ALL fighting here. However, for some of us, our addiction has been so extreme that we must cut out all sexual activity until we have completely rebooted, which has been reported as taking as long as two years for some. And even then, the act of masturbation can easily lead a former addict down the path of addiction and seeking out porn again. That is what hard mode is. Hard mode would not be a thing if only porn was the culprit here. It may be the worst, but not the only foe many of us are fighting.

 

My 1 cent (inflation's a killer)

So, the goal is definitely removing P from your life. However, if you've gotten to the point where you've come here seeking help with breaking from this behavior, you likely have an association in your brain between P, M, and O. I mean, O definitely gets associated with M, right? P is more or less specifically engineered to maximize the dopamine response and minimize the time necessary to achieve it while using M to achieve O. Following this logic, there's an association between P, M, and O. That's not to say that M is evil or unhealthy or anything like that, and O is kinda necessary for things ranging from maintaining a healthy romantic relationship - on up the scale to procreation. No one's saying you gotta give up M or O forever, but since there's this association in the brain of people with a brain affected by the use of P, which has conditioned a behavior to use P to facilitate M and achieve O, you can think of it as sort of like cold turkey smoking cessation. When one quits cigarettes, they often find they need to quit frequenting bars and lounges or socializing with smokers, because the association is there with the fellow smokers and the consumption of alcohol being familiar activities that usually go with a smoke. Think of the M and the O the same way. Non smokers that have quit smoking can have friends who smoke and can consume alcohol if they wish, but during the period they're trying to kick the habit (which is also about 90 days), they generally need to remove themselves from those associative stimuli to prevent relapse.

There are alternatives to hard mode, you can go P only, or PM only but I would bet dollars to donuts a successful 90 day reboot of PMO is less likely to relapse than a successful 90 day reboot of abstaining from P only while continuing M and O. Maybe there are some other folks in here who have gathered empirical data to either support or refute my hypothesis.

As for me, I was wishy washy and couldn't decide between PM only and PMO, so I had my wife make the call. She thought PMO sounded like it would be more effective just by logical assumption and agreed to support me in this endeavor and I'm here over 2 weeks in starting to feel a little better, and the cravings are generally gone about as fast as they show up, so it's not the end of the world to abstain from all 3 for a quarter. Think of it this way: Going the PMO route, not only will you do the reboot and eschew P from your life, but you'll also likely restore some sensation over the period, and who wouldn't like things to feel better once the reboot is done? you'll also get practice invoking your willpower to maintain the PMO free lifestyle for 90 days. After it's up, you can choose to do what you want, whether that's keeping the PMO free life going for however long you choose to or whether it's to jump right back into a healthy active sex life, it's up to you.

A follow up to the bit about losing sexuality. Just because you're not getting the O doesn't mean you've lost your sexuality. There's so much more to a healthy relationship between consenting adults than just the physical sex part. I bet if you're of the mind to enjoy the company of your partner without having any O of your own, you'll figure out plenty of things from spending quality time just talking and learning more little details about the person you're focused on, to cuddling and enjoying the physical contact and intimacy, to (really needs some willpower) getting into more sexual activity with a partner without your own pleasure being a part of it for the duration. In the last 2 weeks, I have not once broken my PMO abstinence, but I have certainly participated in activities with consenting partners who are aware of my reboot and goal and had plenty of fun that didn't require the removal of my shorts.