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One thing I can't understand about evolution

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by nundasvarten, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. nundasvarten

    nundasvarten Fapstronaut

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    I don't understand how an organism could develop sexual reproduction. Asexual reproduction is plausible, but I don't understand how organisms could have developed overtime, first nonworking proto-genitalia, then working genitalia, and separate genders, each with one part.

    For example, if the organism could somehow recognize the desire to reproduce/recognize a usefulness in reproduction, where does it get the information in order to make this a reality? Where does it get the genetic information to create a structure deemed useful for life?

    In the case of the first organism ever, how would it even have a concept of reproduction? And how would it know how to go about slowly developing this into a reality over millions of generations? How would it have millions of generations if it doesn't reproduce???

    Further, wouldn't non-working proto-genitalia be a huge energy sink to develop in between working and nonworking stages? What other use would that structure have that would justify the structure being created? For example, testes.

    And another thing, a large enough group would have to develop in this way at the same time, otherwise they would be plagued by the loss of genetic info through inbreeding.

    I'm not trolling, I thought of this during a class today. I'm looking for answers. Thanks
     
  2. Icyweb

    Icyweb Fapstronaut

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    I have no answers, but that's a really good point that would be interesting to hear if someone else has an answer. Personally I'm a believer in evolution through the intelligent design of a creator, who essentially planted the seeds for evolution and watched them grow. That could be an explanation, albeit a less scientific one than you're looking for.
     
    nundasvarten likes this.
  3. JoePineapples

    JoePineapples Fapstronaut

    I'm no expert (as will become apparent!), But I'd look at simpler systems, such as plants, to explain how sexual reproduction first happened. Once it had happened, (some random mutation) I think it was bound to triumph over asexual reproduction, as by having two inputs, the male and female elements, you are increasing your chance of specialisation, through mutation. The mutation that are the best fit with the environment survive, and reproduce, those that arent so we'll suited don't, and die. So sexual reproduction becomes the powerhouse behind evolution. Gradually, things get more and more specialised and complex.
     
  4. nundasvarten

    nundasvarten Fapstronaut

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    The driving force behind the development of the mechanism doesn't explain how the organism was able to conceptualize the mechanism in the first place. For example, if monkeys had wings, they would triumph over current monkeys. However, the monkey cannot create wings because it doesn't have the genetic information to do so, and it will probably never do so.

    The same thing applies to sexual reproductive organs. I'm not doubting they are useful, I am puzzled as to where the information to build them came from, which like I said, would also have to be simultaneous with genderization. And please, no one mention earth worms, I understand isolated cases like them exist.

    I also am curious as to where the genetic information/concept to reproduce at all came about. Thanks for your time though
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  5. SamFZ

    SamFZ Fapstronaut

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    Google "Sexual reproduction and the evolution of sex".
     
  6. nundasvarten

    nundasvarten Fapstronaut

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    I already did. Obviously I have specific questions that I did not find answers to.
     
  7. Octoling

    Octoling Fapstronaut

    Few things in evolution develop through a lengthy "non-working" stage, I can tell you. Reproduction was a critical step that must have been present at the beginning of life, or else the first species would not have continued. If something complex was created, it was likely devoped from a much simpler system that serves the same purpose, but not as well.

    In fact, now that I think about it, there must have been countless "life-forms" (emphasis on airquotes) that were created before the first bacteria; bacteria-like beings that "lived" one "life" and then ceased to exist because it couldn't reproduce. Or perhaps the first being wasn't something that could reproduce, but it was extremely adaptive and could almost shapeshift into anything using resources from the environement, and it turned into something that could produce reproductive bacteria.

    How does a fully functioning reproductive system just spring from the earth? Science gives a few half-hearted theories, but its one of those things science doesn't have a concrete answer for. We've never seen bacteria just "take form" after all in the present day. Wouldn't bacteria spring up from nothing all over the place in the present day? It must be pretty rare, because as far as I know, its never been documented. Perhaps the world was ripe for life-creation in the past, but now that time is gone. Its still hard to imagine, though, considering how complicated the DNA or RNA is to contain information on proteins, cell walls, nuclei, etc. Did first life even have cell walls and nuclei?

    It boggles the mind, surely.
     
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  8. nundasvarten

    nundasvarten Fapstronaut

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    "Evidence suggests gendered organs probably began as organs in the same individual (as in many plants), then the capacity evolved in some species for individuals to become gender diversified by their environment (as in many reptiles, some developing male organs, some female), and then finally these gender differences became locked into DNA as a chromosome mutation. All this occurred long before any mammal existed."

    That's probably the dumbest shit I've ever read. How can you say so much without any evidence or explanation? How can you say so much without saying anything, that is to say. Nowhere did you even attempt to explain where the info to make the organs came from, or how the environment would affect this at all. "Evidence suggests the capacity for species to become engendered came from the environment." Are you retarded or something? What the fuck does the environment have to do with NEW genetic information in GENES. You really think genitals were created by a mutation? It's clear you don't understand what I'm talking about and tried to regurgitate some half-assed thing you read on the internet instead of reasoning through my question.

    Sorry for going off on you man, but if you're going to write something so useless, don't bother. Please, don't bother. I'd rather continue to wonder than read something that stupid ever again.
     
  9. nundasvarten

    nundasvarten Fapstronaut

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    I know you were just quoting that article, but seriously, it set me off for some reason. I am pretty aggressive right now, I probably overreacted.
     
  10. HelplessPleaseHelp?

    HelplessPleaseHelp? Fapstronaut

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    I believe that our system made us with a purpose to be separate, maybe that would be able to socialize with each other as well.
    If we were our own breeders people would have less need in community and then each of us could have live for his/her own sake. But the truth is that we are separate, men and women. And there is a cause for it. It would be interesting to know what would have happened if each of us did not need anyone else to breed. I don't think the world was a better place.
    Think about it as a challenge that the evolution gave us. The challenge to socialize with other people and eventually make a family with one of them. It is quite fascinating if you look at it like this. Think about it.
     
  11. Octoling

    Octoling Fapstronaut

    Is that a quote from some science journal or something? Stuff like that is a scientist's way of saying "I don't know but I'm obligated to give answer so that I sound smart and competent at my job." Not that scientists are frauds or anything, its a great way to analyse the world and has done us so much good. But people look to scientists for all the answers, and the truth is that there is so much that science doesn't know right now.

    We've never drilled more than 8 miles down the earth's crust, nor explored the deepest parts of our oceans. We're finding new things about other animals and plants constantly (apparently, spiders can fly via static electricity?), something you'd expect we'd have a grasp on by now. There's load of questions about our own bodies that we have no answers for, and neuro-science is basically "this blob shows up on the brain scan when we do this, and also when we do this, so that's something." The methods we have of detecting planets depend on specific circumstances, so we have no idea how many planets there are in our galaxy. Supposedly the universe expanded, started slowing down, then randomly starting accelerating and we have no idea why. Dark Matter is science's fancy word for "our equations don't line up with how galaxies move, so there must be some magic substance out there messing everything up, and it makes up 70% of everything." And those aren't even the profound questions.

    Tl;dr scientists like to pretend they know everything, but its far from true.
     
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