The Rock Bottom I Wanted

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by eash860531, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Hi Eash,

    I'm seeing a lot of genuine sorrow and contrition for what you've done. That's good, and very much warranted, but I do feel like I need to warn you - it's not enough. I've had those feelings in struggling with porn my whole marriage. I've been in church, gone through confession, done counselling, gotten accountability, and none of that was enough to give me sustained freedom. I had the desire to change, but I didn't have the tools I needed to succeed in making that change a reality.

    For me, being part of the NoFap reboot and taking the NoFap academy course has been life changing. I'm a few days away from day 90, and it is so wonderful I can't even describe it to you. In my situation (which may be quite different than yours) it required 90 full days of no orgasm at all, full abstinence from sex with my wife, in addition to porn or masturbation. I never dreamed I'd have that kind of strength, but the tools and counsel and just serious expertise and scientific resources here was just what I needed to make my good intentions actually get results.

    I strongly recommend the course. Sign up for it, and work through the material. Get on the call each week and talk directly to Mark - he's pure gold. Be aware that grovelling and feeling horrible has limits - at some point you actually need to have a kind of love for yourself, to think you yourself are worth improving, in addition to those you love. You are up against a powerful addiction. You are about to fight the battle of your life. You will need to believe in yourself, and summon up strength and courage you never knew you had. You'll need to stand tall and proud. If you have religion or faith in God, call upon it. It's Heaven or Hell, flourishing or ruin, right now, in this moment, in these few months of your life.

    I'm glad you feel that way. It's a great feeling, and it points to a new life you can have. But you're only six days in. She has every right to be skeptical. You will need to win her over with sustained results. And those will be the results of hard work over time.

    No maybe about it. She has no idea the man she could be married to. Trust me, it's so much more than "the man she thought she had, minus the porn". I found in my own experience that so many other things that were at loggerheads in my life came loose when I made serious progress over porn. I'm so proud of myself now; I genuinely like the guy I see in the mirror; and I love seeing all the new possibilities open up in my marriage. Come on in, the water's fine!
     
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  2. Banjaxed

    Banjaxed Fapstronaut

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    Just to add to @Lavrans post above, the days after d-day can be a whirlwind of emotions and you can feel an almost euphoric high of relief and elation at being in recovery - this provides welcome strength to distance yourself from the addiction but it does not last. You will reach points where you question everything, where the addiction tries to work it’s way back into your life. You need to understand that this is the sneakiest, smartest, most determined, most underhanded enemy you’ve ever had to face.

    Be ready for the fight. My advice would be to get yourself into a systematic recovery program whilst you are still at this stage, and work it.

    Good luck my man
     
  3. drewharbour

    drewharbour Fapstronaut

    So many of us have jeopardized our marriages and families with this addiction. It is truly insane what we risk for so little reward.
    I would highly recommend reading as much as you can about the science of porn addiction. yourbrainonporn.com has some great info on the science behind this massive yet seldom talked about issue. We all must take responsibilty for our actions but know that you fell into a trap many have fallen for. This is a well beaten path of biological/neurological chemical dependence. Read into dopamine sensization and desensitization. I found it extremely helpful to understand why my mind was so stuck on this crap and it allowed my self disgust and guilt to be redirected to hatred and disgust for PA. I’m now on 6 months plus free, my marriage now stands a chance, my mental state is way better, and I have real hope to put this behind me forever.

    KNOW THIS, this has to be a complete lifelong change. 90 days is a good original goal but PMO has to be gone forever. Prepare to never look at any sexually explicit material again,, or marry someone who is content with a husband who cheats on them and is terrible in bed and will likely degenerate into pathetic hours long sessions of uncontrollable sexual dysfunction.

    Have your wife set password controls on your phone and laptop, or better yet get rid of both.
    No social media of any kind, no pics of girls, no turn ons at all.
    Look at your behaviour in the real world; ogling much? Fantasizing about coworker or strangers? Checking out girls at the gym?
    If it turns you on, it’s bad. You need to change your sexual focus to your partner. ITS NOT NORMAL TO OBSESS ABOUT EVERY ATTRACTIVE WOMEN YOU ENCOUNTER REAL OR DIGITAL!

    Look into betrayal trauma as partners often have a lot of trouble truly forgiving. My wife loved me and is trying so hard for our kids sake to forgive me but it is not always going well. In fact I’m not sure it will go well at all. Partners can feel betrayal as deep as any can be felt.

    Keep journaling, cement your ideas and motivation on paper or online.

    My mantra is “act so you can tell the truth about how it how you act”
    That is from Jordan Peterson, his book “12 steps for life” is great once you get settled into your PMO abstinence.

    Watch for triggers, my rule is, if my heart races, it’s a trigger and must be avoided. eg. YouTube with cute girl-trigger. Jogger on seawall - trigger. Girl in tight dress - trigger. Seems crazy but it’s so easy to work hard to control P but then turn every girl you see into Porn. If your brain releases dopamine because you go to the gym and stare at the girls, your sabotaging your recovery. Watch out for fantasizing during sex. Sex will
    be great after abstaining but do not relive or recreate porn scenes. Eyes focused on your women and her beauty, no imagining old fetish.

    Good luck man, you have support here, your not alone in this, your not a freak, you fell into a trap, time to toughen up and get out before it’s too late
     
  4. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    @Lavrans incredible insight. I will look into the reboot and academy immediately. I will also look back on your post often - very inspiring.
    @Banjaxed i am going to my first meeting Saturday and will definitely work myself into a system. Thank you.
    @drewharbour everyone's comments have truly hit home - yours especially. Thank you for such personal insight.
     
  5. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    Day Eight

    It's been 3+ days since I've posted and so much has happened.
    I moved back in Sunday night. My wife and I cuddled she was surprisingly supportive. The next morning we had sex and, full disclosure, it was our most intimate experience in years - and that's all my fault. She is still truly struggling as she should, but she has made me feel so comfortable and not ashamed. We have had several long talks and every moment I love her more. I can't believe I neglected her for so long.

    On that note, I am beginning my journey to learn everything about porn addiction and thank you all for your suggestions and advice.

    My wife has installed blockers on all my devices. It was horribly embarrassing for both of us but one hundred percent necessary. My laptop, which I used for all the porn and cams, is in a lock box. i am only using my iPad and phone and cannot use them in the bedroom.

    I saw a counselor yesterday and he wants to take me to a meeting Saturday. It was the first time I've ever seen a counselor and I'm happy I have another tool to keep fighting.

    That euphoric feeling of clarity is still with me. I get sad a lot, but I then get happy thinking about my commitment to never looking at porn or being involved in cams again. And earning a little more trust day by day.

    I know the extremely tough days are on the horizon but with you all... I am ready.
     
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  6. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    I am the wife of a PA & I feel it's important for you to consider a couple of things; things that aren't true for everyone, but they were for my husband & I.

    I asked my husband to leave after dday & quickly asked him to return a day or two later. I was so incredibly hurt, my brain was playing tricks on me. My betrayal made me need to feel needed & want to feel wanted, instantly. Fortunately for my husband, he got the benefits of my normal (but unhealthy) desires to connect/feel on an intimate level. Neither one of us realized at the time (& I am not quite sure he has as of yet, either) that a sex/porn addiction is actually an intimacy disorder...addicts think sex=love.
    My husband's therapist did us a solid & advised we basically monk-mode it for 30 days. Her intentions were to 1) reset the pathways in his brain 2) help in discovering other ways to be intimate with me, in ways not sexually related & 3) break his co-dependency; make him learn to rely on himself instead of me/porn/fantasy/whatever in tough situations. It was hard for both of us, but we made it.
    I feel like had my husband actually worked on recovery instead of "dry drunking" it, this 30 day abstinence could have been a really magical & life changing experience for us. Regardless, it really opened my eyes as the spouse as to how much he really did/does objectify me, how he genuinely has no clue how to show me he loves me other than sex, & that I need to be aware of using him for sex when I'm feeling really down due to the betrayal.

    Just some food for thought. Best wishes :)
     
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  7. Hi Eash,

    Good stuff there - glad you’re fired up for the fight and are pursuing resources that will give you what you need.

    I do want to speak to the porn blocker thing. Since this process started with your wife confronting you, it probably makes sense in your case - you have a lot of trust to rebuild. But I do think they can do more harm than good sometimes by creating a false sense of security and a lack of faith in your own willpower. In my case, my phone doesn’t have blockers. I could be looking at porn in the next three seconds, and yet I’m 88 days away from it.

    I understand that there's a good argument for "every advantage I can get". However, I think Mark makes a profound point, that the best porn blocker out there needs to be you. Part of the problem with porn blockers is that there are any number of situations where you will have access to an unlocked device. And then you will be extra tempted to give in. It's a false safety net, that doesn't really build up the strength you will need to succeed. Plus, I hate to put my wife in the position of policing me - that's not a good relational dynamic. A good sexual relationship with my wife is contingent on me displaying good leadership, and confidence, and dependability. But that's just my own view, and if it helps anyone else, I'm not one to criticize!
     
    ontheroadat40 likes this.
  8. RecoveringLion

    RecoveringLion Fapstronaut

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    Hey man,

    I didnt read the entire thread, but Ill share a few things quickly. I am just over a year into my journey, and almost a year completely sober.

    1. Your marriage as it was is dead. It will never come back. I’m not saying you are losing your marriage, but it will never be like it was. If you have any thoughts of “I just gotta wait this thing out” then cancel those thoughts because your marriage will either be rebuilt into something new or terminated over the next year or two.

    2. Your wife is tougher than you think. She will be deeply wounded by this but not completely ruined.

    3. Treat this problem with the same seriousness as you would a heroin addiction.

    4. You are going to have a really difficult time with memory around details of what you should and shouldn’t confess. You are going to start digging up (often unintentionally) memories that you aren’t sure what to do with. Write them down, and work with your therapist on a full disclosure strategy. Don’t constantly put your wife through an ongoing disclosure process. Write stuff down, make a strategy, and do your disclosure in one fell swoop. I would have avoided a lot of non sense if I did this.

    5. You have made some poor choices but for fucks sake you ARE NOT A BAD PERSON. REMEMBER THIS. You are a hurting person, and as the old adage goes “Hurting people hurt people.” It doesn’t excuse you, but you need to realize you have just been operating out of a place of shame and self hatred. So your #1 job is to do the full disclosure then start rebuilding yourself.

    6. Your life as it was is over. If you want to continue in your marriage and get through this, you are going to go through at least a few “ego deaths” (google what carl jung means by that). Your sense of self is going to get shattered a few times and you need to figure out what the hell to with that. You CAN DO IT, but its hard. Ultimately its also very rewarding. To overcome this, you need to fundamentally change who you are, and that process is going to take a few years. Within that process, you are going to deal with an increased level of anxiety, depression, fear, etc...not to mention the porn withdrawals headed your way.

    7. Dont assume your family is going to be a support system. They may become enablers to you and demeaning to your wife. IF they do this, cut them out hard and fast. My dad was my best friend my whole life, but I had to cut that fucker out of my life because he started demonizing my wife and interfering with my marriage. Hardest thing I have had to do, but it was necessary. If your family is supportive to you and uplifting to her, then thats great.

    8. Finally, succeeding here is a choice. I dont care how bad your withdrawals are, or how much you miss porn (you will experience missing it like its an old friend), or what your body is doing....its a choice. And every time you choose what’s best for you and those around you, you gain a little more sense of self, and a little more confidence, and the part of you that holds your needs in contempt dies a little more. Its just a rule...Prioritize what’s best for you over what the voice of the fearful addicted little boy in your head wants (we all have that voice).

    Not trying to scare you bro. Just hitting you with reality. You have what it takes. We all do if we choose to. So keep these things in mind. Be super patient with your wife. Apologize after you freak out at her in the future (because you will) and just try to be as humble as possible while still intentionally rebuilding yourself. Finally, dont fall into the temptation to let your wife become your accountability partner or therapist. It depends on your wife, but a fair amount of time women try (with good intentions) to get way more involved than they should in your recovery. Men feeling terrible about what they have done allow them, and this destroys marriages. Your job is your recovery, her job is her own, and when you have the ability, you guys can meet in the middle and support each other. Establish boundries very early on regarding her involvement in your recovery. Defer to your therapist, but generally that looks like you getting an accountability partner, setting parameters of what future stuff needs to be confessed to your wife if it occurs, then running it by your AP first if it happens. You need a voice of reason to help you navigate your crazy ass brain (we all have fucking crazy brains in this process).

    You have a tough journey ahead of you. You are going to be taking a few trips to hell, but you will come back stronger and feeling better about yourself each time if you handle things properly. Get some.
     
  9. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    @cakeinacrisis great advice. I've seen people mention the 30-day reset before and I will discuss this with my wife. It's always very insightful to hear it from the SO's perspective.
    @Lavrans yea, I understand exactly what you mean. My trust with her is destroyed so as you said it helps make her feel comfortable. That being said, I hope to get to the point where she will feel comfortable disabling them.
    @RecoveringLion i need reality not mindless words of hope. Thank you. I will also heed all the advice from someone a year into recovery. All of your points make 100% sense. I fear the days in hell but I can't wait to come out stronger every time. Thank you. I will make sure to send her your post.
     
    RecoveringLion likes this.
  10. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    Day 9

    Wow. It feels like it's been years but just nine days since D-day. Today will by far be the toughest. My wife is out of town through Friday and that means endless oppportunies in theory. I had a small thought last night before bed but quickly got up changed tasks and thought of my wife.

    My therapist and several of you have told me to make sure the burden is not on her. I need all of these reminders you guys have posted and I can't thank you enough.

    Most of you have already been through the withdrawal hell I keep hearing about so I truly value every word.

    I am working on a surprise for my wife today and will spend all of my downtime on that. I am also excited about focusing on new hobbies that don't involve the internet.

    Stronger every day.
     
  11. Rock_Star

    Rock_Star Fapstronaut

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    I know how you feel and its really good that your starting this journey, but dont let her support fool you. shes hurting everyday. my wife did the same thing and has help me so much, way more than I deserve. remember to be understanding towards her pain too. think about how you would feel if you found out she was the one who did to you what you did to her. her healing is just as important as your recovery is. it's a long journey and its completely worth it. if you haven't yet I suggest watching the "helping her heal" videos and watching "affair recovery" channel on YouTube. great advice and great resources. if you are more into the science of why we act the way we do and how great relationships work I'd suggest looking up dr john gottman. I wish you the best on this journey, and good luck.
     
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  12. Sounds good, @eash860531. I don't know if you've started the videos in the NoFap Academy course, but some of the later ones are really powerful. I recommend binge watching the whole course, and then going back module by module and doing the exercises slowly - maybe one a day or slower.

    About stray thoughts/urges - there are many strategies for dealing with them, and the course material is really helpful on that front. Especially if you take on the challenge of the 90 day full hard-mode reboot (which I strongly recommend), the urges will be tough at the beginning. But what you find out in the later stages of the reboot (or at least this was true for me) is that you've just been used to using porn as a mood modifier. It lets you escape any sort of discomfort or anxiety. So your body/mind is already conditioned to look for porn and produce urges when those feelings come up. This, in addition to the purely physical addiction aspect.

    In the later stages, what you find is that you can completely circumvent this urge loop, to get to a healthier place. Then urges come much less often, and when they do, they are much more easily outflanked.

    Example 1 (My Addicted Self):

    Subconscious: I'm really frustrated with this project at work right now. I don't have good direction on it and I feel inadequate.

    Conscious: Ooooh, I'm feeling an urge and having a thought. Gosh, that seems so enticing right now. I totally need to find some privacy and pull up porn sites on my phone. I just need to run to the bathroom real quick...

    Example 2 (My Current Recovering Self):

    Subconscious: I'm really frustrated with this project at work right now. I don't have good direction on it and I feel inadequate.

    Conscious: Ooooh, I'm feeling an urge and having a thought. Gosh, that seems so enticing right now. Wait a sec...this is just my addict brain talking here. Time for a safety behavior - let's go on a short walk. OK, now that I'm walking, let me think. I know that Porn for me is largely an escape behavior. So what am I wanting to escape from right now? Hmmmm. Well, actually I'm really frustrated about this project at work. I don't have good direction on it and I feel inadequate. What can I do to improve things. I think I'll call a meeting with my colleagues, discuss things with them, and see if we can come out with a better action plan. Sounds good. I'll make myself a cup of tea (coffee for y'all) and then suggest this immediately afterward to my colleague next to me.

    Example 3 (My Future Clean Self):

    Subconscious: I'm really frustrated with this project at work right now. I don't have good direction on it and I feel inadequate.

    Conscious: I'm feeling anxious. Let's go for a walk. OK, now that I'm walking, let me try to see if I can see what's wrong. Hmmmm. I'm really frustrated about this project at work. I don't have good direction on it and I feel inadequate. What can I do to improve things. I think I'll call a meeting with my colleagues, discuss things with them, and see if we can come out with a better action plan. Sounds good. I'll make myself a cup of tea (coffee for y'all) and then suggest this immediately afterward to my colleague next to me.

    Can you see how recovering from an addiction like this can totally change your life for the better on all fronts?
     
  13. By the way, just as an aside, by about this time tomorrow, my wife and I will be making love for the first time in 90 days. I'm absolutely giddy with excitement about it - like a kid on the day before Christmas. If I even brush my hand against hers, the skin on my hand tingles. Short kisses are pure magic. My sex drive is chomping at the bit, but I've got a strong hand on the reigns, and am keeping that strong stallion in line. I don't remember ever feeling this excited before, and yet in this much control at the same time.

    I want this feeling for you, my friend.
     
    Acky31 likes this.
  14. That is great to hear. Congratulations on getting to this point. I hope nothing but the best for you both for all of your days.
     
    eash860531 likes this.
  15. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    @Rock_Star thanks for the suggestions and the reminder that she is hurting every day. She has been incredible in her support and how she has reacted to me but I still hurt tremendously for her.
    @Lavrans i will talk to her about the 90-day hard reboot. I haven't jumped into any programs yet but I plan on doing so. Also congrats on completing the program. I bet today will be a VERY good day for you! That's really awesome.
     
  16. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    Day 14

    It's been a few days since I've posted, no relapses though. Not even a desire, honestly. The one word I keep using since d-day is: clarity. I lost who I was and I forgot what it was like to truly be a partner. I would cook and do things to make her happy but I was empty. Not anything she did, it was this addiction.

    Overall we had a good weekend - it was our first full weekend since it happened. There were times when she would get down, upset, sad and ask me question then it would get me down and sad. She kept apologizing but I told her every time to stop apologizing and to ask what she wants when she wants.

    On Sunday she thought I was doing something shady on my phone. I immediately invited her to go through it and check my recently used apps. The feeling I have knowing that I have nothing to hide is absolutely incredible.

    It is terribly sad that it took all of this for me to get to this point of being so open but I am here. And I am here to stay.

    She did have a big breakdown after signing up for this forum. She went down the rabbit hole of reading everyone's posts and her mind started spinning. She also signed up for the SO forum but said it made her more sad and upset.

    It will be a long time before she's Ok but I listened to everyone on here and your advice on how to handle it and help her through this.

    Her mom also emailed me this morning expressing her support. She is the coolest but this blew me. It is even more motivation and accountability.

    One day at a time we get stronger. Thank you all.

    Bring. It. On.
     
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  17. Great to hear about progress, for both of you. Keep it up.
     
    eash860531 likes this.
  18. Hi Eash,

    That’s so hard to hear about your wife’s suffering. I know what you mean about the SO section. There’s a lot of pain and anger in there, and some of it is really destructive. I hope my journal is more encouraging.

    Be so good to her right now, and work hard on yourself. Become a man whom you can look in the mirror and admire, who is worthy of your wife.
     
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  19. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    I'm sorry your wife got a bit nervous by the SO section, as I did too, at first. I'm the wife of a husband doing awesome in sobriety but failing at actual recovery; actual recovery = finding root of problem, consistently working towards the emotional disconnect you caused in the marriage, & just being an honest, decent, hard-working, kind, patient human while making amends daily through your actions.

    I can't speak for all SOs, but what you read is what we live due to our husbands betrayal. If someone says the SO section is "destructive", they're living in denial & inadvertently re-traumatized some SOs on there by saying their very normal reactions aren't valid. To a traumatized wife, that's as equal to being told "you're crazy & need help". When an addict suggests wives showing PTSD signs are destructive, i pray they realize that these women didn't ask for our hearts to be butured. Its raw, but it is absolutely not destructive.
    Don't discount a learning opportunity because your fear of not being able to handle emotions overrides your desire to change.
    The SO forum is full of smart, indestructible women, & your wife would be welcomed.
     
  20. eash860531

    eash860531 Fapstronaut

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    @Lavrans your words are always very helpful. Thank you.
    @cakeinacrisis I'm sorry to hear about the recovery ... my wife needed a few days but is on there and made a post- I'm really hoping it helps she seems positive about it.
     
    0111zerozero11 likes this.

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