wondering if any of you men could help a SO out?...

Rather than ask about specific instances of bad thoughts or bad behavior, maybe it makes sense to ask how his day was. High points, low points. What went smoothly. What caused tension. Offering support through these conversations can help him know that you trust him.

 

Have you thought about writing a letter to him letting him know how you are feeling and what you need from him?
Sometimes putting it down on paper, rereading and editing before you give it to him helps but Have positives in there, giving him examples on what you think might help you to understand and your communication needs.

 

Communication is so tough sometimes, especially about sensitive topics!

I agree with @Jennica writing it all out may be a lot easier. Just be careful, tone sometimes is difficult to detect when reading, and something that sounds fine to you can come off in a way you didn't intend. Perhaps write it out, and then read it to him, rather than having him read it?

A couple of other ideas:

1 - Perhaps a simple log would be helpful for both of you. Maybe a shared google document or something where he records his feelings each day. Maybe just a date, urges/temptation (scale 1-10), stress (scale 1-10), and any other feelings that would be good to track. Then you can see how he is doing, and track both progress and correlation to other issues (chaser effect, stress levels, days of the week that are difficult, etc.) but it won't take as long as doing an actual journal would, so he may be more willing to actually do it.

2 - It sounds like he feels that no matter what he does, it won't be enough. Even if he is clean, how can you trust him? He can be absolutely perfect from here on out, but will it even make a difference? I know how that feels, (I wrote about it on another thread). He may be scared that if he shares that he is even slightly tempted it will trigger you as much as if he had relapsed. Or he may be worried that even bringing up the topic to discuss his progress will be bad for you because it will remind you of the issue. Clearly it is on your mind anyway, but does he know that? Also, tell him how proud you are of the progress he has made, let him know what it means to you - even if it is small progress.

3 - Get him talking to somebody else. It's hard to talk about this issue. Maybe if he had an Accountability Partner on here, or went to a 12 Step Group (which I highly recommend) it would make him more comfortable talking about the issue, and give him a way to discuss it. Once he has talked to other people, it might become easier to talk to you.

And, just so you know, I think you're guy is lucky to have you. You obviously care about him, or else you wouldn't be putting so much effort and thought into all of this. I hope he steps up to the plate and starts to be the man you deserve.

 

Here is a favorite speaker from SA. He answers the question SOs ask about how do you know he’s sober, in a small part of this 30 min talk.

Kind of global over all,
but it is a convention talk.
Optimistic, I think.

SAA is my program and here, this one is SA.

https://www.recoveryspeakers.com/harvey-a-sa-international-convention-nashville-2010-part-1/

The short answer is you see
all the work and recovery action
that is going on.

My SO doesn’t ask.
She did say to my comment
that maybe I’m going
to a third meeting a week,
“Are you really that sick?”

I said maybe.

 

I am the PMO addict in my relationship but if any of you read enough by me by now, you know that I have unproven suspicions that my boyfriend has hidden PMO problems. To this day, I have never caught him but my guilty conscience makes me accuse him constantly because he’s “the guy” and if I have this problem surely he has it worse.

Well

He hates that rhetoric and he shuts down when I clobber him with worries. I have started lots of fights over this topic. I attacked, accused, projected, and x,y,z.

What I advise is to tell your SO that you live in a constant state of anxiety and paranoia. Tell him that you want to believe in him but you can’t see straight because you’re fearful that you’re inadequate. DO NOT ANTAGONIZE HIM. Don’t blame him. Let him blame himself (all of us PAs blame ourselves). Take a deep breath and take care of your mind. Mend yourself and release all that negative energy.

At the same time, don’t stand for neglect. Give him peace, space, and time but don’t sacrifice your deep desire to connect with him in a safe, intimate way.

There’s a delicate balance. Speak but don’t attack; express but don’t drown him in your chaotic stream of worry. Take what you want to say and set a timer for 5 minutes as a limit to how much you get to bombard him.

 

What is he doing to "work" his recovery? Is he using online resources, 12-step programs, therapy, working through a particular recovery book? Hopefully he is doing something aside from "white-knuckling" through urges.

I think it should be "safe" to ask him about the techniques he is using or the new ideas that he is learning about. I feel that someone legitimately in recovery would appreciate their partner asking about their progress.

 

The dream is showing you your deep fear. I think you are right - he didn't do anything wrong because it was a dream, so it makes sense not to get angry at him for that AND I think it is very reasonable for you to feel hurt by his past actions and for you to feel afraid of that kind of rejection: his knowing it hurt you and not caring. It is also reasonable to say, "I feel afraid of losing you, and this dream I had really highlights how deeply it is affecting me. It is also reasonable to say, "I feel suspicious, and uncertain, because I feel like I don't know anything about what you are going through." Pretty much any sentence that starts with "I feel" can't be refuted, because they're your feelings and only you can say if you have had them.

Ah, a classic. Yeah, I do this too. So the phrase that can help you with this is "The story I'm telling myself..." Check out an article here, and Brené Brown talking about it here at 1:06 and 25:19. Listen to the podcast, it will be very illuminating and helpful!

What makes you say this?

 

I have been him. I didn't want to talk about any of this stuff because I was ashamed of it and didn't want to cause any further hurt by talking about it. The problem is it is hurting you and not talking about isn't going to help. My SO tried to explain it to me but I just reacted defensively every time (I felt like even if I beat this she would never believe me). I stupidly thought well that's out of my control and is more her problem than mine, all I can do is not go back to PMO and hopefully one day she'll believe me...

I didn't understand about betrayal trauma, I didn't understand about the true nature of addiction and I didn't take any steps to learn. I am ashamed to see how short sighted I was. The turning point was after over a year of being PMO free I relapsed and was caught. it took this, and the tipping point it took my marriage to for me to finally "get it". Once I started looking I realised how stupid and naïve I had been.

I don't know how to approach is with out causing further arguments but he needs to know how you feel. I was frustrated when my SO said she didn't believe me when I was recovering and found it really difficult to accept that. It took another relapse to see I wasn't as recovered as I thought I was, for me to finally get my head around the insidious nature of addiction and what it means. After the relapse my wife was very clear over what she needed, it wasn't the PMO that hurt her the most, it was the not being able to trust that I would tell her if I relapsed again. This was fundamentally more damaging than the PMO itself in our case. Understanding that was key and the only way I could improve the situation was to actively engage in recovery to show through action that I was getting better and rebuild that trust. Ultimately he is the one that has messed up, he needs to own this and he needs to demonstrate to you he is trying to be better. Just saying I'm not doing it isn't enough.

Sorry didn't mean to go on when I started to reply it was to share the tool below;

One tool me and my wife use is FANOS and check in daily. We've been using it daily and it's a good way of seeing where you both are at. It stands for Feelings, Acknowledgement, Needs, Ownership and Sobriety. Some of the topics are self explanatory (feelings, needs etc). Acknowledgement is where you acknowledge something your partner has done over the last 24 hours, Ownership is where you own something you have done. Feel like I'm not explaining it very well but link below has a bit more;

https://www.hopecounselingtexas.com/couples-sharing-exercise-fanos/

What we found helpful is to expand the sobriety bit. When I first used this I used to just quote how many days PM free I'd been. That wasn't overly useful my SO didn't believe me when I said I hadn't relapsed. They are just words after all and there was no action to show I was serious about recovery or was actively taking steps to stop it happening again. This sounds like where your partner is at. We expanded it to include positive things that I've done towards recovery (things like blogging, research, meditations, exercise to help each other connect etc etc). That has helped as it both keeps me accountable for my own recovery and shows that I'm actively taking steps to get better. It also provides a space to admit if I'd relapsed.

 

I would want my SO to regularly seek out good news, so that I can regularly give good news. Do you need to know about every urge and/or trigger, or is it better just to know if he is successful in keeping away from p and Psubs? Maybe ask him to check in with you once a week, just to say whether his recovery is going well or not. If you feel like you want more info or detail, then try to establish what exactly you want him to communicate, and establish whether he is comfortable with that.

 

I've seen some great replies on this thread.

As a man who used to be closed and badly unable to communicate, I needed a lot of therapy to learn to open up, share, and be vulnerable.

Unfortunately, it's your SO who needs therapy to learn how to open to you without fear of looking weak. That's not to say that you're helpless, but to reassure you that the problem doesn't lie inside you.

 

My backstory is on the 40+ thread, but you should never feel bad about asking. When you do wrong & either get caught or confess or both, the person needs accountability. My wife doesn't ask much anymore because when I was hiding it, she knew. It will mess up your sex life, even if you yearn to be with them, there will be some ED. My heart & libido has always been connected, so if something is emotionally off, I struggle to perform.
I never feel bad about my wife asking & she has full access to everything. To me, it just shows you care, when you're not afraid to talk about it.

 

Mine has been PMO free since October and he’s the exact same way. He doesn’t talk to me at all about any struggles, or give me any updates at all. I do the exact same thing that you do, and just worry and fill in the blanks with paranoia. He ALSO said to me that he was worried I wouldn’t believe him after the 90 days if he still had PIED with me... I’m just watching to see how it plays out because that’s all I can do as a spectator. He doesn’t want to include me in his recovery, he says he’s doing a good job- everything as he should be, and he often gets annoyed and says I’m interrogating him if I ask anything about it so I’ve learned to just let him be. Eventually it’ll be clear wether or not he’s abstaining, just based on what happens between us when we are allowed to be sexual again. Is yours in a program/therapy?

 

So your husband has cut you off from sex for 3 months for a hardcore reboot & you have to just assume he's taking steps to get better? He doesn't want to involve you at all & you're supposed to wait & hope for the best?
I've said it before, to some disagreement, sex with your spouse while both of you work through it is the answer.
If I told my wife, after my confession, that our sex life was on hold now for at least 3 months & to wait it out, she probably wouldn't still be here. Good luck.

 

I had Pied w P, When I found the need for this place.
Working on your own recovery will help. Whether it’s simply for someone inhabiting the same place as an addict, a crappy relationship seeking recovery or Betrayal Trauma recovery.

I didn’t go hard reboot. And it may be taking longer to recover. Found Karezza helpful.

My SO is the goddam saint of This P addicts recovery. If she needs me to tell her how I’m doing I’ll answer those questions.

She has always made me want to be a better man.
NoFap and my program in SAA (Or SA etc) helps me see how.

 

If you're married, your spouse needs to be involved. Any addiction is an "our" problem & not a "my" problem. Shouldn't your goal be to have a strong clear sex life with your spouse again? Don't you think he should want you to help him get there?
Sorry, but usually people that are withdrawn & defensive, don't stop, they just learn to hide it better. If he gets angry when you inquire, that should tell you something.

 

I agree.

Some feel shame and also do have faulty thinking hiding stuff.
Yea, I got this. Yea...

A tight tangled knot to untie.
Given 100% commitment
a pull on the right places,
With help,
begins the loosening.

 

Recently I relapsed with M. Not reset or any of that stuff. Full relapse with just M, thankfully no P. Why do I say that? Because there was a noticeable behaviour difference and change in the manner in which I interacted with my wife even after the first time. I was 103 days clean at that point.

From the first moment where i dedicated myself with steadfast earnest to becoming clean (and perhaps 7 days after that point), my relationship with my wife started improving, as with my kids. Addiction bring that worst in me especially when it was threatened and sobriety allowed the best of me/the true me, to flourish.

Perhaps others can attest to this change as well. But ask yourself, is he still behaving like an addict? Did his attitude change? maybe he never really gained sobriety ever?

I think a letter might be a nice idea. However, I think also being more active in his recovery might also be good. Make yourself a huge part of his recovery not as a supervisor, but as a resource to make it easier for him, and it'll make your conversation about this easier. I think @AnonymousAnnaXOXO has some great resources on this like daily check-ins and whatnot. It'll get him used to talking about it.