Masturbation is the Real Enemy

So are you saying that masturbation is more detrimental at rewiring your brain than porn?

 

I would probably say that this undermines the research done by Gary Wilson. He says that porn rewires the brain due to dopamine flooding the brain. So porn is just plain bad..and wrong..for your brain and the world. It doesn't do any good for anyone.

 

The last time I looked at porn I ended up not MO'ing. This was a change for me since everytime I used to watch it, it would always lead to MO.I think that this was a big change for me. Unlike most people who would watch P and then M this is a major change. I think what I did was reverted my brain and by doing so I told it "whenever you look at P you are going to feel pain because there is no O" or something along those lines. Basically I resisted the urge to M which most likely changed my brains behavior system. This is what rebooting is all about. Eventually I will get rid of the P and be done with PMO forever.*EDIT* I am completely done with porn. I will never watch it again. I will never masturbate again either. Period. You should do the same.

 

They are both the real enemies. Both are bad in their own ways and they are synergetic together, which creates a whole new drug called PMO.

Whenever I try to watch porn without masturbation it gives me horrible brain fog. I mean it's almost unbearable and things like driving a car ain't safe to do after watching porn.

Also, when I only watch porn I watch it A LOT and I know you other addicts do the same. It's like when you watch a lot of gore, it starts to desensitize you. Soon watching a guy kill a dog doesn't affect you anymore. Same happens with porn.

So while masturbation drains your male energy, the porn fucks up your brain. I don't see why you'd want to antagonize just one of them, because they both are bad for you.

 

The difference is the chemicals released looking at P. Huge releases of dopamine.
You get much less release from just jacking it and it's more steady, not a over flooding of the receptors.

I think masturbation is ok, at younger ages teens, but there is really no reason to do it when you are in your 20's.

 

KeenEye had you completed a 90 day reboot at that point?
I have not completed a 90 day reboot, so I can't say how it will make me feel then, but I would assume that your brain may feel worse, because you are producing more dopamine during M and less dopamine after M which interrupts your reboot.
We are all individuals though and not everyone has the same reaction to the same "substance", M being the substance.
I'll keep an open mind on this issue, but I don't even want to think about MO'ing at this point, I may see things your way after my reboot and I would be ok with that.

 

Let me qualify that statement: I actually do think you should stop watching porn, as well as movies and commercials. Because all of those DO influence your mind. There is good reason the crazy prizes for TV commercials get paid. People don't believe advertising has an effect on them, but it actually does.

However, compared to the loss of energy, confidence, creativity, and what not, caused by MO, it is a minor problem.

 

Everybody thinks they have that control in the beginning. The fact is, if you keep putting something like P into your brain, it WILL have an effect eventually. You know, I visited Munich a few years ago, which is where the Third Reich started. People often forget that for many years, Adolf Hitler was viewed as a harmless lunatic. Eventually he got his message into the brains of the people in Germany at that time, and eventually the same people who previously thought he was a lunatic were electing him as Chancellor. That's similar to how P works. It keeps putting the same messages into your brain, and eventually you'll find yourself looking at random women in the street and thinking "Wow, I wanna F her". I know, I've done it, but only since I discovered P.

I'm not sure that's what those doctors and scientists are actually saying. I've never heard of one doctor say that P is normal or healthy, but I've heard plenty say that it's a problem. Sure, they say that MO can be healthy in that it cleans out your system and reduces the risk of prostate infection, but even then I don't hear any of them advocating we should do it several times a day they way a lot of PMO addicts have. Doctors and scientists are some of the smartest people in the world, and before we dismiss them, we should at least listen to what they are actually saying.

How unnatural would our fantasies be without porn? Serious question. There have been times when I've been away on camping trips without P, where I've MO'd. Most of the time, I don't even think about fantasies when I do it, I just concentrate on my own pleasure. Generally when I've MO'd without P, it's only been a case of "scratching an itch" after a few days without it. The times I've indulged in crazy fantasies have only come after viewing P, and escalating from there.

For me, the biggest danger of MO is that it drives me to seek out P to "enhance the experience", which is why I'm on this site in the first place. The reason I need to quit MO is because, like many others, I can't quit P without doing it. However, I genuinely believe that had I never discovered P, my MO would never have spiralled the way it has.

 

This has been a really good discussion with some great point of view insights. Here's my two cents and I'd love to get your thoughts on this. I believe that your age plays a significant role in which side of the argument you fall on with regard to the "real" enemy: MO or P. My hypotheses is that young men see more evil in P whereas gents of my generation (I'm in the 40+ forum) are battling with excessive/compulsive M where P is just a symptom or associated prop or vehicle to get that O fix.

P has simply meant a better way for me to achieve more O's. I'm addicted to the O and have pursued some shitty behavior to get it. Many other guys on the 40+ board can cite all sorts of acting out behaviors (prostitutes, dating websites, infidelity, voyeurism, etc.), that don't have anything to do with "high speed porn". My pursuit of the O was my way of dealing with life. For you young guys, you began by checking out P, getting hooked (addicted) and landed here with all sorts of issues.

But don't get me wrong, my excessive M has created the same issues all of us are battling in varying degrees (PIED, ED, social anxiety, self esteem, etc.).

Bottom line - we're all in this nofap/PMO zone together, we just used different entrances. Stay strong gents!

 

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever come across on this site.

 

I think it is possible to learn objectification of women without P. When I was young I used to masturbate mainly to fantasies involving the girls in my class, and sometimes to the Sears, and Kohls clothing catalogues. Even once or twice to National Geographic. I was mainly masturbating to fantasies with the occasional P until college when I got access to high speed internet without parental supervision. Then it was P all the way... but before that it was anything I could get my hands on, nude scenes in movies, clothing catalogues, fantasies, pixelated video games (yes I M'd to the fairies in the Super Nintendo Zelda: A Link to the Past and N64 Ocerana of Time many times). And while I certainly used porn from an early age, it was inconsistent. And yet the objectification of women was still there and I used it to fuel my fantasies, and I'm wondering whether I picked it from the culture and it just soaked into me, or whether my first porn site preceded all this and was the cause. I remember my first porn site clearly (wasn't even a porn site, really, it was non-nude but licentious), because I was caught, but I think I was M'ing and fantasizing even before then.