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My Journey (thus far) as a Roman Catholic

For Fapstronauts of the Catholic Christian Faith

  1. miXhal

    miXhal Fapstronaut

    You get naturally horny, if you look at (or are with) a naked woman that´s physically there next to you. Now, that may happen with any woman, so there´s where we need to be careful not to abuse this with a woman that you are not married with. It seems to me that it´s lust anywhere else (and in porn undeniably).
     
    LavaMe likes this.
  2. LavaMe

    LavaMe Fapstronaut

    Great question. I don’t know that I can answer it but I’ll give some thoughts. I listen to a Podcast about St. Thomas Aquinas by Matt Fradd called ‘Pints with Aquinas’. Coincidentally, he is also a Catholic anti-porn advocate. I can’t remember half of what I learn but hopefully something useful stuck with me, because these issues are well thought out. And anyone correct me if I’m wrong.

    We have what we would call emotions but St. Thomas would call passions. These are movements (e motion or moving out of) we experience. So natural horniness would be a passion. It would be something we experience. It would be something we experience mentally and physically. It would be an enjoyable experience since sex is good and pleasurable.

    Lust would be when we consciously think about a sex act that is immoral. Lust could be something we simply and fully will. I mean I could be sitting in bed at night and purposely think about an immoral sex act. But lust could also come from a passion. So I could see a beautiful woman, experience horniness, and then choose to think about it.

    So the key difference in the moral aspect is our choice. If, on the other hand, I experience horniness but I ignore it or fight any thoughts then that is no sin. If we live an unchaste life (physically or mentally) then we’ve developed a habit whereby natural passions are quickly turned into lust in our mind.

    Someone who is spiritually disciplined may experience horniness, but he doesn’t allow it to become lust. For those of us on this forum lust is probably a habit. So we find it hard if not seemingly impossible to not lust. This isn’t true. It may take time but we can, through prayer and habit, grow such that we experience horniness but have no impure thoughts.
     
  3. _Catholic_

    _Catholic_ Fapstronaut

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    Yeah its like how anger as a feeling isn't a sin but if it is acted out as wrath it becomes a sin
     
    dlansky, LavaMe and miXhal like this.
  4. dlansky

    dlansky Fapstronaut

    The Church has always distinguished between desires and choices. A desire in itself is never a sin; how we choose to act upon a desire is where the question of sin comes in.

    In "Confessions," St. Augustine wrote, "“If sensuous beauty delights you, praise God for the beauty of corporeal things, and channel the love you feel for them unto their Maker, lest the things that please you lead you to displease him.”

    There is beauty in women; there is even beauty in men. Recognizing the beauty that exists is not a sin at all; in fact, to deny that beauty would be a lie and not particularly appreciative of God's work. Desiring to respond to that beauty in some way is not a sin. The question is how we might respond, and which responses are consistent with God's will?

    As a single man, if you are attracted to an unmarried woman, you might decide to ask her out, or you might decide to try to engage your imagination in lustful fantasies about her. Obviously, one course of action would be in keeping with God's will; the other, not. As a married man, even asking a woman out to whom I'm attracted is out of the question. One priest suggested focusing all my desire for and attraction toward women on my wife, so that all those desires have a proper direction. That doesn't mean fantasizing about other women when I am with my wife, but giving all my love for womankind in general to my wife. I can also recognize that each woman is a daughter of God, the daughter of earthly parents and perhaps the wife or future wife of someone, and treat her with the honor and dignity she deserves.

    As a single man, some of your options are different from mine, but the question is the same -- what responses to this desire would be holy?
     
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  5. dlansky

    dlansky Fapstronaut

    I love "Pints With Aquinas!" "Non nisi te, Domine!"
     
    LavaMe likes this.
  6. I like your suggestion of Socrates, Lavame. At times like these (and better yet at all times) we need to learn how to think Socratically.
     
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  7. _Catholic_

    _Catholic_ Fapstronaut

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    And as Catholics we need to learn how to think thomistically. Aquanis was the one of the greatest minds in the church if the scholastcism that aquanis and his peers sparked in the 1200-1400s we would have risked going into the same direction of fundamentalism the Islamic empires were going in
     
    LavaMe likes this.
  8. I have read Matt Fradd's book "The Porn Myth". It's good.
    But here's another question, Jesus says: "He who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery." And I think at times: To commit adultery is to be unfaithful to your spouse. But I'm not married! Now, I'm not saying--I'm not married, therefore I can think and fantasize about all the plausible debauched acts I can think of. No. But also, I am a young man who is curious about the sexual experience. I try to think at times more about the emotional sensations than the physical.
     
  9. I try at times, philosophically, to have a more "Kierkegaardian" thought (yes, I know he's Protestant but he was an awesome Protestant) because I try to live 'authentically'. Better yet, I want to live authentically. I think along with Aquinas, we need to have a Kierkegaardian mindset in which we evaluate ourselves with a sharp self-criticism and think about how authentically we live in regards to our faith, if we claim that we have this particular faith. It is something I try to do every day but it is something that definitely can be said "easier said than done". It is a trial that is never over but always continuing as long as one continues to exist and tries to become a 'self'.
     
  10. dlansky

    dlansky Fapstronaut

    I would interpret Jesus’ statement more broadly. His point is that treating women as objects of lust even in our minds goes against God’s plan for men, women and marriage. Probably most of the men Jesus would have been speaking to were married, so he used that example.

    However, there are thoughts appropriate to single men that are not appropriate for married men. You might meet a single woman and thing, “She and I might be great as a married couple. I should get to her better and maybe pursue that.” For you, that thought would be oriented towards God’s plan for marriage. For me, because I am married, such a thought points me away from the marriage I already have and is therefore inappropriate.
     
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  11. LavaMe

    LavaMe Fapstronaut

    @thatsingleindividual#K-13 I think your posts tie into each other. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for following the letter of the law but ignoring its spirit. Our natural tendency is to think of exceptions that make life easier for us or simply allow us to do what we want to do. The man who seeks holiness will seek to do what God wants. He will have the mind of God.

    The point of life is deification or theosis. That is literally us becoming like God. Ideally we would be our authentic self and our authentic self would be like God. Right now my authentic self is far from it. I have all sorts of disordered affections, like PMO. Life is a journey. Life is a series of decisions. Today I can decide to become more like God or more like Satan. Satan is the creature who says my will be done.
     
  12. I agree with what you say, dlansky. The main point is not to treat women like objects and I accept that that goes for everyone, even for the unmarried. As I've said before, I hate when people turn sex into a commodity, I really do. It's the worst thing that has happened to sexuality and the thing is, most people don't realize it. I want to have God in mind when I'm thinking about sexual things and I want to first and foremost have pure sexual thoughts. I want to think about the concept of 'unity' when it comes to sex, which is the most important aspect, and not orgasm.
     
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