Making a Better Marriage

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by mrtumnus, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. MisterDirection

    MisterDirection Fapstronaut

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    You will get this figured out. I know it.

    I struggle with sex also. I'm considering doing hard mode for the full 90 to see what my feelings and triggers are around wanting to be with my wife. I know it's not just for sex anymore or O but I still feel guilty initiating. Certainly not if she does, but it seems to make me feel dirty if I think about it or i want to. So I have to figure out those feelings.
     
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  2. I recommend the hard mode, but as I said on the other thread you posted, not for a set amount of time. Let your SO be the one to control when it ends. Especially if you're already doing well with your own recovery, in terms of acting-out (in other words, if you're still having major urges and struggling with acting out, maybe you need a longer hard-mode period).

    Do you feel dirty initiating sex because of some shame you're still carrying about your past behavior and how you've treated your wife? I know it rubs some people the wrong way, but maybe you would benefit from some scheduled sex. That way, you decide ahead of time frequency and timing, and there is no guilt bringing it up. You can both decide against it for one reason or another each time.
     
  3. Day 66

    I had some thoughts yesterday that I wanted to share here, but now I can't remember...

    Oh right. I was thinking that this site represents a small percentage of people (anti-porn is the narrow-road), and of the people here that end up succeeding in their battle, an even smaller portion. The choice cream of the crop. Maybe an encouragement thinking about it that way, a worthy goal.

    Work was distracted yesterday. I didn't meet my goal of only being on here twice. Blech. If it were PMO would I shrug it off so easily? I think procrastination is my next demon to fight; it's really probably one of my roots for PMO anyways (boredom, seeking novelty).

    PT went well. I bid farewell to my therapist as he is moving on to another practice. He's really great and I will miss him. He even gave me his personal contact info and offered to grab lunch sometime.

    I had a lovely evening - I played games with our two youngest (Spot It) while my oldest played Carcassonne with mom. Then bedtime, cleanup, and my SO was on the bed getting some reading for her jobs done. I decided to give her a nice full-body massage. It was appreciated, although would definitely have been better if she hadn't had to get work done. Got my journaling in, then read books until bed.

    Hey, I just realized - it's Thursday and I feel fine! ;)

    Got a run in this morning. I was rather sluggish at first, probably from not getting quite enough sleep. But I loosened up and felt better, even got some interval running in towards the end.

    I feel: sad for my SO being so busy, tired but glad to have another free evening tonight, excited to camp with my son this weekend (and glad he is excited too)
     
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  4. Day 67

    Pretty average day yesterday. Work was a bit better, but still distracted (can I just get one solid day in?! j/k, I know it's all up to me). Some family time before bed and I finished a book I've been reading (reading through The Expanse).

    I'm going on a retreat with some other men from around my area tonight through tomorrow, and will be bringing my son. Two of the guys there already know about my struggle with PMO, and I'm considering letting another guy know. I'm hoping it will be a good time of support, encouragement, and friendship-building. We shall see.

    I feel: content, excited for the retreat
     
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  5. Day 70

    Ugh, another setback weekend, caused by yours truly. Things went well on Friday and on the retreat. I confessed my struggle with P to another guy, and he and another guy agreed to start meeting regularly. I'm glad for it, and hope it works out. I do feel like I'm jumping into some deeper relationships that maybe aren't ready for it, or at least going in somewhat blind. But at least one of the guys I've known for a long time and think it will be helpful for both of us.

    Anyways, I got home from the retreat and was immediately reminded how I've destroyed our marriage and intimacy. It devolved into a full-fledged pity party for most of the day, and into Sunday. Lethargy, wanting to numb-out, negative self-talk, wishing I could start over again, that sort of thing. It was completely selfish, and ended up triggering my SO (who wouldn't be?!). Sunday night we resolved it, but only because she reached out and connected with me out of frustration and anger towards me. It was a complete waste of the weekend, and a setback as far as our relationship goes. My SO mentioned that she feels like she is 'wearing thin' and that I need to man-up and move on. Every time I withdraw like this, she is reminded of my selfishness and questions why she would want to be with someone like me. She feels like she was 'tricked' into marrying someone as selfish as me. At the very least, my selfishness was grown and fed by my pursuit of P and other things that served to numb any feelings of inadequacy and stagnancy. Now, that is the real beast that I am 'addicted' to. P has been relatively easy to give up now that I see that it is really just one of many habits that feed the daemon within.

    So, picking up the pieces and seeing how I can assemble this into something that helps me move forward. In the past, I have realized the need to 1) Let go of frustration over not getting intimacy/touch when I want it; and 2) Let go of desire/expectation for intimacy altogether. I think I have been relatively successful at these, although there may still be an element of #2 still present in a long-term sort of way (delayed gratification). I don't think that's bad, it is a valid, healthy desire for any spouse to have in a marriage. Anyways, I think the next goal is to let go of any self-loathing over my past failures. It is a selfish fixation, and ends up hurting not just me but those around me as well. Dwelling in it just further concretes the neural pathways to feeling like a victim and makes it easier to act out (via PMO or otherwise, seeking 'numbing' behaviors).

    I think I've been in something of a cycle (about weekly) where I have internalized, high expectations for the weekend after a week of perceived progress, and then some form of acting out when intimacy or progress doesn't happen as I feel it should. This is another goal that I can focus on - let go of expectations of progress in our relationship. Help her heal. Be present. Don't get self-involved or internalize thoughts and feelings. Don't expect any sort of reward for sticking to recovery (other than the implicit reward of becoming a better person).

    I'm just going to let this go. It's not worth revisiting or going back over with a comb. Onward and upward!

    I feel: Remorse over the wasted weekend, eager to get back on track, thankful that my SO reached out on Sunday to connect
     
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  6. Day 71

    Yesterday ended on a good note, although I didn't sleep well last night. I tossed and until about 3AM when I finally gave up, got up, and played some video games. Finally fell back asleep around 5:30.

    SO and I didn't talk about much last night, but were just hanging out; her doing some work and me goofing around on YT and watching funny parts together. Nice time of just being friends and forgetting about baggage.

    I'm considering committing to a year of not asking for or pushing for sexual intimacy. This feels like a long time, but it's what Doug Weiss recommends in Helping Her Heal. Compared to how long I've been abusing my SO via PA/SA, it's a small sacrifice. If my SO feels so moved to push for it herself, then I will accept, but only if I feel that I'm in a good position to do so (would need to define the criteria for this). I don't want to "jump" at the chance, as I would naturally do. Of course, if I move forward with this I would want to set expectations with my SO and affirm that I'm not disinterested in her.

    I feel: tired/groggy, resolved/determined
     
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  7. Acky31

    Acky31 Fapstronaut

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    What happened to cause your SO to react like this on your return?

    I totally get that, procrastination is truly a problem of mine, trying to kill boredom, and used to often lead to acting out. I guess that developing hobbies and planning activities can help.

    I read/heard somewhere that you can develop another addiction in response to giving up an addiction: where you essentially replace one addiction for another, "lesser" addiction. I think procrastinating is definitely something that could lead to this.
     
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  8. She didn't react to anything, it was mostly me just feeling sorry for myself that our relationship is damaged because of me. I noticed little things, like her not wanting to linger during a hug, not holding my gaze quite as long as we used to. From there, it was all me internalizing my own failure and negative emotions. It wasn't until Sunday night that we actually talked and worked most of it out. It was stupid and self-involved.

    This is definitely true. I've found myself gravitating towards video games in place of P, and definitely still tend toward that now. The underlying root of these is selfishly seeking comfort and avoiding boredom. The "addiction" isn't the problem, it's the symptom.
     
  9. Day 72

    A good, productive day yesterday. I made progress on two of my projects at work. I slept better last night, probably mostly due to the lack of sleep the previous night.

    Bible study last night. We started into Jeremiah 7. I keep comparing the Israelites' predicament to my own struggles. I think that's the whole point, and it makes me grateful that God still cares about us, even after we repeatedly forsake him.

    Again, not much time to talk with my SO about anything, but we enjoyed some time together while she worked. I feel bad she has so much on her plate right now, and I can't really help her with it. So for now, I'm trying to be present for her.

    I feel: motivated, competent
     
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  10. Day 73

    Feeling a little under the weather today and tired. Was productive again yesterday, even with a bit of a change-up in my project load. I picked up dinner on the way home since my SO was too busy to prepare anything.

    I met my new PT therapist yesterday. She doesn't seem quite as effective or capable as my last (he was pretty awesome), but I'll give her a while to see how things go. My neck and back feel pretty much the same as usual.

    Last night I cleaned up the house a bit last night after watching YT and practicing on duolingo. While I was working, I listened to some more Jacobsen. He's starting to get to the meat of his series, and I'm looking forward to it. I'd listen here at work, but I'd be super distracted then.

    I'm looking forward to breakfast tomorrow morning as I have plans to meet with some guys from the retreat last weekend.

    I feel: Tired, foggy-headed, a bit overwhelmed but feel capable to handle it
     
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  11. Day 74

    Yesterday was another productive day. This is usually what happens for me. Something switches in my brain and suddenly I know what I'm doing and go to it, rather than putzing around and wasting time. This is something I've always done - wait for inspiration rather than working for it. It is another way that makes my struggle with P make so much sense. I want the fast/easy rather than the slow/difficult. Delayed gratification has always been difficult (although, I can certainly tolerate a longer delay now as an adult).

    Last night, my SO acknowledged that she has been enjoying being busy, because it gave her a break from thinking about 'us'. I understand that she wants to escape it. I told her that I'll be here for whenever she wants to talk more (we both chuckled).

    I had a good breakfast with friends this morning. I was able to share some of my struggles and they likewise were encouraging with what they've gone through and overcome. We are planning to meet weekly, so I am hoping this will continue as another support in my recovery.

    Busy Friday so far, although I did get to go home for lunch. It was nice to just sit down with my SO and youngest kid and have a relaxing meal.

    Weekend is imminent! Looking forward to a wedding on Saturday. Sunday should be restful, no plans. I hope I can squeeze a lawn mowing somewhere in here...

    I feel: Energy starting to wane, but feeling at peace
     
  12. Day 77

    It was a better weekend than the past couple, but still difficult to support my SO through this time. I had a bit of a grumpy, selfish attitude Saturday morning, but I was able to turn it around by lunchtime. Between a birthday party on Sunday and a wedding on Saturday, the weekend went pretty quickly.

    We had more conversation last night, mostly revolving around the same points as the last few weeks. I definitely handled it better by just listening and not saying much, other than inserting affirmations.

    My marriage seems to be in dire straits. My SO feels like she wants out of the marriage, but doesn't want to hurt the kids. She doesn't see a future with me being any different than it has been. I will always be looking out for myself and my needs, before hers and the kids. And she doesn't want to leave me and look like the bad guy ("You left him?! But he's on track for recovery, doing so well! You need to be there for him!"). She wishes I would be the one to get up and go.

    I'm considering bringing up separation or at least some boundaries while we process through this. Thing is, I KNOW that my SO hates separation/isolation. I don't think that it would help her heal, rather it would probably serve to solidify her feelings of wanting to get out. But maybe that IS what 'healing' needs to be for her (get over me and get out).

    Through all of this, I'm committed to sticking to recovery for myself. If I come out of this with no family remaining, so be it. It will hurt, but I am determined to become a better person regardless.

    How does one practice selflessness? Do I set a reminder to "think about other people", lol? I am constantly preoccupied with my own wants and needs and thoughts, it feels like wading through an avalanche with no end. I have been praying more throughout the day, and it seems to help a bit. I'm going to cling to that practice and pray (pray for better prayer? YES!) for growth.

    I feel: Hopeless in my weakness, trusting in a higher purpose
     
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  13. I am woefully inadequate to give advice regarding your marriage, but I figured I would throw this out there (and keep it brief because I'm always paranoid about overstepping my bounds). I think you're on the right path, and I know you're dealing with a lot with both recovery and trying to make the best decisions to help your wife with her trauma. With that said, my initial reaction when I read this:
    Was please no - don't do that. Then I read:
    Absolutely! 100% Do everything you need to create boundaries your wife needs, but even more importantly, diligently abide by them. I just cringe at even the mention of separation or divorce because first - I don't believe that's what you want, and 2nd - I don't believe that's what is best for your wife and your family. If your wife goes there, then that's her decision and then it's a matter of patiently hoping you can change her mind, but whether she goes there or not, the absolute best thing you can do is:
    A thousand amens. No matter what happens, this is what matters, and I believe that with enough time, your marriage can heal once your wife sees that your efforts in recovery are not just a fad or a temporary thing, but a permanent change. If you continue long enough, there's hope she will see it. No guarantees, but I urge you not to suggest something that you know is not what's best:
    This is a horrible thing we allowed into our lives, and it's going to take time to extricate it fully and repair the damage that is done, but control the things you can control and work on your self. Selfishly pursue recovery and improving yourself, and your entire family will reap the benefits.
     
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  14. GottaBFree

    GottaBFree Fapstronaut

    Hey I’m just reading stuff on a tough day and I just wanted to say I appreciate your posts and journey.

    Good things will happen for you.
     
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  15. I tend to agree, and never thought I would ever even consider it an option. But, at this point I've heard statements from her several times nearly begging me to be the one to end it and leave. I told her I would need it in writing first. And when I say separation, I think an in-home separation would be the first consideration, what with our three kids in the home. But still messy and not good, any way you look at it.

    I appreciate your thoughts. I don't want to jump the gun with this, and she doesn't read my journal here (though she is welcome to), so I will definitely be taking this slow, with much caution.
     
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  16. MisterDirection

    MisterDirection Fapstronaut

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    I would say dont assume she wants you to make the decision for her to leave.

    That will just turn i.to blaming you for leaving

    If that's what she decided then she decides that and asks you to leave. Remember we make our own decisions good or bad do.t make decisions for her. Work your recovery and do all you can for her ....she will tell you to leave if she makes that decision....or vice versa
     
  17. Exactly! If she leaves (as she feels she wants to), then she thinks she will be shamed and judged for leaving. But if I'm the one that leaves, she will be spared that burden. I'm not saying her motives are great or even good, they are definitely self-serving (but really she is just trying to protect herself further, so it's hard for me to blame her).

    I don't want to leave, and don't want her to leave. I'm NOT going to advocate for separation unless I really am convinced it will be helpful (and I'm not).
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  18. MisterDirection

    MisterDirection Fapstronaut

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    Remember whatever happens...God will make sure you and your family WILL BE OKAY, no matter if thats together or seperate
     
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  19. Acky31

    Acky31 Fapstronaut

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    I don't like the idea of you bringing up separation with your wife, as it's not something that you want, or feel would even be helpful to you, but I do think that being open to what may be best for her healing is great, though it is for her to contemplate what that is, not you.

    When does she bring up these thoughts? Is usually said in the heat of an argument or in conversation? I think sometimes things said in argument are not necessarily meant.

    How are things between you on a day to day basis?
     
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  20. rah2790

    rah2790 Fapstronaut

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    Hey man,
    I just read thru your journal...reading others helps me get thru my own you know. And the above quote really struck me as far as your journey goes. I have no idea what it is like with your wife feeling betrayed and all that, my wife never really minded it, but is super excited I decided to take this step on my own, and is loving the results so far.
    After reading your whole journey that quote stuck out to me, because it is what I was saying to you the whole time I was reading it. (Its much easier to point out the faults of others isn't it?) But this comes from a place of love from a fellow Christian, husband, and father. At some point you are gonna have to forgive yourself and become the leader of your home as God commanded you to be. I dont see her getting past it until you do as well, and as she said, man up. Again, I'm not saying this harshly, but loving your wife as Christ loved the church means a lot of things. O e of those things to me is he was the leader, he was strong, and confident. In just my opinion, you need to forgive yourself, so that you can be that again before she can forgive you. Again, I'm not in your marriage, so I may just be blowing smoke, but reading your journey really had me in the feels for you man, and I just wanted to put my input in in case it may help you. God Bless and good luck. One last time, that came from a place of love to a Christian brother
     

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