PMO causing similar effects to drugs. So what on earth is a binge doing?

skaterdrew · Oct 8, 2019

As far as I am aware usually anything that raises certain neurotransmitters and chemicals in the brain to abnormally high levels usually afterwards for the next few days your brain depletes these neurotransmitters and chemicals, basically because it has had an overload of them and now the brain and body needs to start producing more of them again, and it can take a day, few days or even longer to get these neurotransmitters and chemicals back to a normal level.

Look at drugs like MDMA, alcohol, cocaine ext. MDMA sky rockets serotonin when you take it. But then for the next day or few days you feel terrible, mainly because your brain is depleted in serotonin, and it usually takes at least a few days to get your serotonin levels back up.

Alcohol raises serotonin when your drinking it, and the more you drink the more serotonin it raises. But if you drink a lot this will at the very least lower serotonin levels for the next few days, until your brain and body starts producing adequate levels of it again.

Cocaine works slightly differently, it blocks the reuptake of dopamine, blocking dopamine from being sucked out of synapses in the brian, making dopamine high in the brain for a short period of time, but the more you take the longer your brain will be high in dopamine, and the more dopamine your brain and body will of used. So this could also deplete or lower dopamine for the next few days.

So I think it's safe to say no wonder someone can feel like they have issues with their mental health for a period of time after using these substances like this, as we need to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters to feel good. Even to feel sane in my opinion.

But the evidence is suggesting PMO raises a lot of these neurotransmitters as high as what some of these drugs and substances do.

So what on earth is a big PMO binge doing? When I say a big PMO binge I mean literally edging, masturbating, flicking about hundreds of different content for hours before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. I am talking having a 2,3,4 hour long PMO session before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. This is the sort of thing I can fall in to.

But really what I am wondering is what is this exactly doing to my brain? If they're saying PMO is doing similar stuff to the brain as a lot of these drugs do. Now I am not exactly sure all the neurotransmitters and chemicals PMO raises. I do know dopamine is a big one it raises, but I do think it will raise other neurotransmitters, chemicals ext, as dopamine isn't responsible so much for pleasure, it is responsible for chasing pleasure, and how much pleasure does PMO give?

I have felt in absolute EXTREME pleasure for an entire day when I have went in to one of these types of binges.

But then I wonder why my mental health is bad for days later? Probably because my brain is depleted in a lot of these important neurotransmitters and chemicals.

We know you have to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters and chemicals to have good mental health. I actually don't think someone would feel sane if they didn't have normal levels of certain neurotransmitters.

Asgardian36 · Oct 8, 2019

skaterdrew said: ↑

As far as I am aware usually anything that raises certain neurotransmitters and chemicals in the brain to abnormally high levels usually afterwards for the next few days your brain depletes these neurotransmitters and chemicals, basically because it has had an overload of them and now the brain and body needs to start producing more of them again, and it can take a day, few days or even longer to get these neurotransmitters and chemicals back to a normal level.

Look at drugs like MDMA, alcohol, cocaine ext. MDMA sky rockets serotonin when you take it. But then for the next day or few days you feel terrible, mainly because your brain is depleted in serotonin, and it usually takes at least a few days to get your serotonin levels back up.

Alcohol raises serotonin when your drinking it, and the more you drink the more serotonin it raises. But if you drink a lot this will at the very least lower serotonin levels for the next few days, until your brain and body starts producing adequate levels of it again.

Cocaine works slightly differently, it blocks the reuptake of dopamine, blocking dopamine from being sucked out of synapses in the brian, making dopamine high in the brain for a short period of time, but the more you take the longer your brain will be high in dopamine, and the more dopamine your brain and body will of used. So this could also deplete or lower dopamine for the next few days.

So I think it's safe to say no wonder someone can feel like they have issues with their mental health for a period of time after using these substances like this, as we need to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters to feel good. Even to feel sane in my opinion.

But the evidence is suggesting PMO raises a lot of these neurotransmitters as high as what some of these drugs and substances do.

So what on earth is a big PMO binge doing? When I say a big PMO binge I mean literally edging, masturbating, flicking about hundreds of different content for hours before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. I am talking having 2,3,4 hour long PMO sessions before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. This is the sort of thing I can fall in to.

But really what I am wondering is what is this exactly doing to my brain? If they're saying PMO is doing the same thing in the brain as a lot of these drugs do. Now I am not exactly sure all the neurotransmitters and chemicals PMO is raising. I do know dopamine is a big one it raises, but I do think it will raise much more, as dopamine isn't responsible so much for pleasure, it is responsible for chasing pleasure, and how much pleasure does PMO give?

I have felt in absolute EXTREME pleasure for an entire day when I have went in to one of these types of binges.

But then I wonder why my mental health is bad for days later? Probably because my brain is depleted in a lot of these important neurotransmitters and chemicals.

We know you have to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters and chemicals to have good mental health. I actually don't think someone would feel sane if they didn't have normal levels of certain neurotransmitters.
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Great post, man!!!

People who arent hooked to PMO like we are....I wonder how are they getting their happy harmones from!!!

Overforme · Oct 8, 2019

Yes you can all out binge and think there wont be consequences because you keep doing it and keep the dopamine accelerated, but then when you stop, you feel flat, tired, unmotivated, anxious, depressed.. it's awful. This proves PMO is an awful drug and as harmful as the others you had mentioned. True bliss and happiness is staying sober and helping others and being kind to them. Then you follow that up with healthy activities that bring upon normal levels of dopamine like working out, eating healthy, doing work you enjoy and making money, meditation, and sleep. This is what is best for the mind and body.

skaterdrew · Oct 8, 2019

Overforme said: ↑

Yes you can all out binge and think there wont be consequences because you keep doing it and keep the dopamine accelerated, but then when you stop, you feel flat, tired, unmotivated, anxious, depressed.. it's awful. This proves PMO is an awful drug and as harmful as the others you had mentioned. True bliss and happiness is staying sober and helping others and being kind to them. Then you follow that up with healthy activities that bring upon normal levels of dopamine like working out, eating healthy, doing work you enjoy and making money, meditation, and sleep. This is what is best for the mind and body.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is everyone wants the instant gratification, and there is so many things that cause instant gratification these days. PMO, alcohol, drugs, junk food, videos games ext.

The issue is these things can raise the feel good neurotransmitters and chemicals higher than the natural healthy things.

I personally think instant gratification can cause long term unhappiness.

PeaceOnEarth108 · Oct 8, 2019

I totally agree with you, you really get to the heart of the issue.

From what I've read there isn't the single 'happiness transmitter' that is high when you are happy and low when you are sad. Same as you I read dopamine is more for high energy and the need to chase happiness. However, it seems that this happiness thing is too complicated for us non-neuroscientists and I believe ofc that it is not fully understand by the experts either. Anyway it's sad that the existing knowlegde is so diffiult to reach, you have to dig through all the bullshit first.

Fenix Rising · Oct 8, 2019

skaterdrew said: ↑

As far as I am aware usually anything that raises certain neurotransmitters and chemicals in the brain to abnormally high levels usually afterwards for the next few days your brain depletes these neurotransmitters and chemicals, basically because it has had an overload of them and now the brain and body needs to start producing more of them again, and it can take a day, few days or even longer to get these neurotransmitters and chemicals back to a normal level.

Look at drugs like MDMA, alcohol, cocaine ext. MDMA sky rockets serotonin when you take it. But then for the next day or few days you feel terrible, mainly because your brain is depleted in serotonin, and it usually takes at least a few days to get your serotonin levels back up.

Alcohol raises serotonin when your drinking it, and the more you drink the more serotonin it raises. But if you drink a lot this will at the very least lower serotonin levels for the next few days, until your brain and body starts producing adequate levels of it again.

Cocaine works slightly differently, it blocks the reuptake of dopamine, blocking dopamine from being sucked out of synapses in the brian, making dopamine high in the brain for a short period of time, but the more you take the longer your brain will be high in dopamine, and the more dopamine your brain and body will of used. So this could also deplete or lower dopamine for the next few days.

So I think it's safe to say no wonder someone can feel like they have issues with their mental health for a period of time after using these substances like this, as we need to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters to feel good. Even to feel sane in my opinion.

But the evidence is suggesting PMO raises a lot of these neurotransmitters as high as what some of these drugs and substances do.

So what on earth is a big PMO binge doing? When I say a big PMO binge I mean literally edging, masturbating, flicking about hundreds of different content for hours before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. I am talking having a 2,3,4 hour long PMO session before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. This is the sort of thing I can fall in to.

But really what I am wondering is what is this exactly doing to my brain? If they're saying PMO is doing similar stuff to the brain as a lot of these drugs do. Now I am not exactly sure all the neurotransmitters and chemicals PMO raises. I do know dopamine is a big one it raises, but I do think it will raise other neurotransmitters, chemicals ext, as dopamine isn't responsible so much for pleasure, it is responsible for chasing pleasure, and how much pleasure does PMO give?

I have felt in absolute EXTREME pleasure for an entire day when I have went in to one of these types of binges.

But then I wonder why my mental health is bad for days later? Probably because my brain is depleted in a lot of these important neurotransmitters and chemicals.

We know you have to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters and chemicals to have good mental health. I actually don't think someone would feel sane if they didn't have normal levels of certain neurotransmitters.
Click to expand...

From what I've read and from my own observations (I've been in described category for 25 years) I believe brain protects itself from elevated levels of dopamine by reducing dopamine receptors. That's why you see progression in duration and in use of more extreme "materials" over time. (P)MO also elevates epinephrine and norepinephrine levels and releases adrenaline, oxytocin, vasopressin (excitement during the act and feeling of numbness after finish), but I don't know how chronical excess of these chemicals effects us in the long run. Reduced D2 receptors is what causes anhedonia (lack of pleasure from any "normal" activity) when you abstain. You get hit twice: abstention reduces dopamine production + brain has reduced capacity to accept dopamine = stress/anxiety/depression/anhedonia and all the other withdrawal effects we experience.

There was very interesting study done on binge PMO Subject: Pornographic binges” as a key characteristic of males seeking treatment for compulsive sexual behaviors

Dave G 123 · Oct 9, 2019

Fenix Rising said: ↑

There was very interesting study done on binge PMO Subject: Pornographic binges” as a key characteristic of males seeking treatment for compulsive sexual behaviors
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Wow - that's the kind of study we need more of!

Lilla_My · Oct 9, 2019

Pleasure (endorphins, opiates) is not so crucially important when it comes to (behavioural) addiction, at least not after a while. The chasing of pleasure is so much more vital to keep someone "hooked". Big release of catecholamines like dopamine during the chase of pleasure causes a down regulation of D2 receptors in the brain, i.e. anhedonia. Nothing new there.

Low dopamine (as in withdrawal) give rise to prolactin, which is involved in depression. Think of when a woman has just given birth, the post baby blues = high prolactin (involved in breast feeding).

Deleted Account · Oct 9, 2019

skaterdrew said: ↑

As far as I am aware usually anything that raises certain neurotransmitters and chemicals in the brain to abnormally high levels usually afterwards for the next few days your brain depletes these neurotransmitters and chemicals, basically because it has had an overload of them and now the brain and body needs to start producing more of them again, and it can take a day, few days or even longer to get these neurotransmitters and chemicals back to a normal level.

Look at drugs like MDMA, alcohol, cocaine ext. MDMA sky rockets serotonin when you take it. But then for the next day or few days you feel terrible, mainly because your brain is depleted in serotonin, and it usually takes at least a few days to get your serotonin levels back up.

Alcohol raises serotonin when your drinking it, and the more you drink the more serotonin it raises. But if you drink a lot this will at the very least lower serotonin levels for the next few days, until your brain and body starts producing adequate levels of it again.

Cocaine works slightly differently, it blocks the reuptake of dopamine, blocking dopamine from being sucked out of synapses in the brian, making dopamine high in the brain for a short period of time, but the more you take the longer your brain will be high in dopamine, and the more dopamine your brain and body will of used. So this could also deplete or lower dopamine for the next few days.

So I think it's safe to say no wonder someone can feel like they have issues with their mental health for a period of time after using these substances like this, as we need to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters to feel good. Even to feel sane in my opinion.

But the evidence is suggesting PMO raises a lot of these neurotransmitters as high as what some of these drugs and substances do.

So what on earth is a big PMO binge doing? When I say a big PMO binge I mean literally edging, masturbating, flicking about hundreds of different content for hours before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. I am talking having a 2,3,4 hour long PMO session before you ejaculate, and doing this the entire day. This is the sort of thing I can fall in to.

But really what I am wondering is what is this exactly doing to my brain? If they're saying PMO is doing similar stuff to the brain as a lot of these drugs do. Now I am not exactly sure all the neurotransmitters and chemicals PMO raises. I do know dopamine is a big one it raises, but I do think it will raise other neurotransmitters, chemicals ext, as dopamine isn't responsible so much for pleasure, it is responsible for chasing pleasure, and how much pleasure does PMO give?

I have felt in absolute EXTREME pleasure for an entire day when I have went in to one of these types of binges.

But then I wonder why my mental health is bad for days later? Probably because my brain is depleted in a lot of these important neurotransmitters and chemicals.

We know you have to have adequate levels of these neurotransmitters and chemicals to have good mental health. I actually don't think someone would feel sane if they didn't have normal levels of certain neurotransmitters.
Click to expand...

You do not understand how neurotransmitters work.

Neurotransmitters are released in to spaces between two neurons synapses. One neuron releases them and they activate the other neuron so it can continue to send the signal, the more of the neurotransmitter is released the more next neuron is activated.
Space where this release happens is called synaptic cleft and this space is rapidly cleaned up through the process of re-absorption.
So activating neuron will release lets say dopamine, and that activates the next neuron, once dopamine release stops ongoing re-uptake of dopamine is able to rapidly remove it from the synaptic-cleft, resetting the activation.

Re-uptake is the process of reusing neurotransmitters, they make it back to the cell and get reused over and over and over. Cells are machines, they follow instructions to the letter they do not run out of dopamine or any other neurotransmitter as that would mean death.
Your body has massive reserves dedicated to making sure you maintain normal operation of the brain and if those reserves are spent, body will break down its own tissue to provide the brain what it needs.

There are other reasons for why you feel bad after alcohol consumption, like poisons your liver dumps in to the bloodstream in huge amounts after processing poor quality alcohol.
Which is why you should never drink cheap alcohol, there is a reason why quality bottle of whiskey costs 150$ - you never get a hangover, because it sat in a barrel for 15 years and "bad" parts have broken down and metabolism is clean.
Back to the brain

What actually causes issues for neurotransmitters is not that you depleted them, what happens is adaptation and self regulation.
If large amount of dopamine builds up in the synaptic cleft, then the neuron becomes over-stimulated, it then reduces sensitivity to dopamine receptors so that large volume of dopamine does not produce over-stimulation.
Second component is the process of re-uptake of dopamine is increased so it gets removed faster from the synaptic cleft, again to prevent over-stimulation of the target neuron.

Similar things also happen with other neurotransmitters and end result is - emotional low, due to overall drop in brain activity.

Abuse of pornography is not the same as drug abuse.
Critical element in porn abuse is that individual avoids orgasm, without orgasm body is unable to dampen arousal response.
Person watches arousing content, this amplifies arousal, switching to new content is required because it keeps novelty and arousal never stops.
So in essence, what happens is sexual arousal response to new female, situation or event is abused over and over and over, because it gives pleasure.
High dopamine keeps you clicking, and sexual arousal gives the pleasure.
As I always said, best way to stop this abusive behavior, if you found going full out is to have an orgasm, which will kill your sexual response and you will be back in control.

Neurons adapt to extremely high levels of neurotransmitters in the same way - they reduce sensitivity in number of ways. The longer and more frequent high levels are present - the longer these adaptations will persist after you stop using.

skaterdrew · Oct 9, 2019

Ronila said: ↑

You do not understand how neurotransmitters work.

Neurotransmitters are released in to spaces between two neurons synapses. One neuron releases them and they activate the other neuron so it can continue to send the signal, the more of the neurotransmitter is released the more next neuron is activated.
Space where this release happens is called synaptic cleft and this space is rapidly cleaned up through the process of re-absorption.
So activating neuron will release lets say dopamine, and that activates the next neuron, once dopamine release stops ongoing re-uptake of dopamine is able to rapidly remove it from the synaptic-cleft, resetting the activation.

Re-uptake is the process of reusing neurotransmitters, they make it back to the cell and get reused over and over and over. Cells are machines, they follow instructions to the letter they do not run out of dopamine or any other neurotransmitter as that would mean death.
Your body has massive reserves dedicated to making sure you maintain normal operation of the brain and if those reserves are spent, body will break down its own tissue to provide the brain what it needs.

There are other reasons for why you feel bad after alcohol consumption, like poisons your liver dumps in to the bloodstream in huge amounts after processing poor quality alcohol.
Which is why you should never drink cheap alcohol, there is a reason why quality bottle of whiskey costs 150$ - you never get a hangover, because it sat in a barrel for 15 years and "bad" parts have broken down and metabolism is clean.
Back to the brain

What actually causes issues for neurotransmitters is not that you depleted them, what happens is adaptation and self regulation.
If large amount of dopamine builds up in the synaptic cleft, then the neuron becomes over-stimulated, it then reduces sensitivity to dopamine receptors so that large volume of dopamine does not produce over-stimulation.
Second component is the process of re-uptake of dopamine is increased so it gets removed faster from the synaptic cleft, again to prevent over-stimulation of the target neuron.

Similar things also happen with other neurotransmitters and end result is - emotional low, due to overall drop in brain activity.

Abuse of pornography is not the same as drug abuse.
Critical element in porn abuse is that individual avoids orgasm, without orgasm body is unable to dampen arousal response.
Person watches arousing content, this amplifies arousal, switching to new content is required because it keeps novelty and arousal never stops.
So in essence, what happens is sexual arousal response to new female, situation or event is abused over and over and over, because it gives pleasure.
High dopamine keeps you clicking, and sexual arousal gives the pleasure.
As I always said, best way to stop this abusive behavior, if you found going full out is to have an orgasm, which will kill your sexual response and you will be back in control.

Neurons adapt to extremely high levels of neurotransmitters in the same way - they reduce sensitivity in number of ways. The longer and more frequent high levels are present - the longer these adaptations will persist after you stop using.
Click to expand...

Great answer man.

This also explains why there wasn't much of an issue before high speed internet, and then why after high speed internet it's been a disaster.

If I masturbate just using my imagination I would say the longest I masturbate before I ejaculate is about 10 minutes, and usually that is me done after that. If I masturbate while on high speed internet I would say I masturbate for at least an hour before I ejaculate, edging flicking about hundreds of different content before I ejaculate. A lot of the time it is much longer than an hour. Plus after I have ejaculated I still go back to the porn later a lot of the time.

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PMO causing similar effects to drugs. So what on earth is a binge doing?

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