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My husband argues his ogling is not sexual

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Tourmaline, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Tourmaline

    Tourmaline New Fapstronaut

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    HI,

    I hope I can get some advice as our 39 year old marriage is in turmoil all because my husband is ogling women. I appreciate that a man will look if an attractive woman comes in his view, but my husband appears to be actively looking so he can stare at them. He has always denied this behaviour, but it's got to the point that it's causing major problem.

    After many years of denials and what is now horrible arguments, we are now rock bottom. He recently admitted that he does look, (this is a major step), but then comes the justification and minimisation, that all men do it, I only do it once or twice and then the deflection towards me and I get accused of looking at men as well.

    I've explain how this makes me feel and even read online posts how it affects women, the relationship and even the woman he's looking at. I asked what the first thing he thinks of when he sees a woman walking down the road...he said nothing...I asked again and prompted...her clothes, hair, shoes, etc...he replied his first thoughts were….'If she was attractive'. I've accused him of objectifying women, which he denies. He's got two, successful grown up daughters, working in male oriented jobs and how would he like men viewing his daughters, or me like that.

    This is hitting my own self confidence. I've lost loads of weight, wear sexy thongs, provide more sex, (he has very high sex drive) and think he uses sex as a comfort tool for his inability to show his emotions or feeling true intimacy. I am attractive, grown my hair long. I look much younger than my age and see other men looking at me, so I know I am an attractive woman. My husband insists that he is very happy with me, our sex life and tells me how lucky he feels to be married to me. So this is so confusing.

    He promised to change and stop months ago, but he hasn't. Whilst we sat outside a bar, he could not stop looking at a female doing lunges on the bench opposite. He actually continued a conversation with me whilst he was bobbing his eyes back and fro from me to her with rapid consistency. I knew the moment she left as his eyes stayed on me for more than 3 seconds. I couldn't believe what he was doing. Last week, whilst travelling to the vet with my elderly dog who had major neurological problems we passed a female cyclist, within our 5 minute journey. I could see his eyes on her rear end and without fail he was in the mirror to get another view.

    We were devastated that the vet might give us terminal awful news of our dog. Surely, his mind should have been on the situation in hand, but he could not resist the opportunity. This not only angered me, but left me with a deep sadness. I told him once about a dream that I was dying lying in a hospital bed, whilst my loving husband was holding my hand, but as the nurses went to adjust my oxygen mask, my husband tilted his head and shifted in his seat to get a better view up the nurses skirt. When I told my husband, his reply was, 'rubbish' and that was that, but I feel it was my gut telling me that things will never change.

    Firstly, his go to option to deny has shifted slightly. Now he is admitting to doing it, but insist that it doesn't give him any gratification..nothing at all and he cannot explain why he does this.

    I've tried to find logic in this and he told me so is he, but neither of us can. If there's no reward only hurt, then why does he continue to do it. He is fully aware that he's run out of chances and our marriage will be over and he tells me he's trying. He has moved out and we talk online as face to face we argue. He told me he is willing to seek professional help to see if they have encountered this before and he's looking online at web sites. He insists he doesn't look and think anything, but he's looking. He will not accept it is sexual and insists he is getting nothing out of it...Nothing, nothing at all. Is this possible?
     
    kropo82 and Deleted Account like this.
  2. Joe1023

    Joe1023 Fapstronaut

    So this is pretty typical for a sexual addict. "Deny everything and confirm nothing!" My wife and I have been married for over 20 years now and I've been in recovery for about two years now, and when I was still in my addiction, when I was confronted, I lied ALL THE TIME. My wife had proof and I still tried to find a way, ANY way, out of being caught. The truth is that if it truly means nothing that he does it, then he would have zero problems stopping. For him to be completely unable, in any way, to explain why he does this, THAT'S the real rubbish here. My personal opinion would be that if he promises to go (and actually GOES) to continued counseling with you, maybe think about working on the relationship. But the key there is that he must do more than simply say he'll go, because I think a lot of guys will give lip service to their wives, simply SAYING they'll go, then there's always an excuse as to why it never happens. He should make the appointment when you can both go, and not only that, but just as important, he must continue to go. He needs to be taking the initiative on this to find out how to stop this, and keep on doing it. This is on him, NOT YOU.

    Your husband may deny it, but I think he surely knows exactly what he's doing and why he's doing it. You know, I know, everyone on here knows, and just about anyone old enough to have a driver's license knows exactly why he does it.

    Just my two cents. I hope it all works out for the best for you!

    God bless!
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
    mrtumnus, Lilla_My, kropo82 and 2 others like this.
  3. Reverent

    Reverent Fapstronaut

    First of all let me say and qualify a few things. I must say I am so sorry you are going through this. 39years you must be incredibly patient or feel absolutely miserable, or both.

    I qualify my response by saying I am just some random porn addict on the interwebs, I don't know either of you, I only have my opinions. I have been in recovery for over 2 years after 33 years of troubling behavior.

    DENIAL, that's a word I am very familiar with. Maybe he does it out of shame. If you experience him physically looking, but won't accept that. Then it's shame and he's hiding something. Otherwise if he wasn't embarrassed he would have no problem accepting truth. He may not know why he does it, but he surely knows he is doing it. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.
    Another thing is, maybe he is immature emotionally and doesn't believe or know it's okay to be attracted to beautiful people. We are naturally programmed to be stimulated by people with striking features. It's okay to notice obvious beautiful women. Most wives accept that. That's how they believe and behave.
    Where the problem comes is when it turns to lust. Is he fantasizing, undressing them in his head? The real issue is the point his brain leaves reality (a pretty women in front of him) and enters lustville. (Creeping for a better angle, fixation, staring, creating brain narratives or false hopes of seduction) and nonrealities that it becomes a problem. I bet he doesn't know what is an appropriate glance and what is ooglying.

    Are you truly at rock bottom? It almost sounds like you are at whit's end, and he hasn't hit rock bottom. Most people once they are laying on their back with no where else to look but up, desperately take any advice, criticism or help to remove themselves from the agony. One becomes bathed in utter humility and no embarrassment, shame, or anything else will keep them down. I have a feeling he isn't exactly there. Good news is recovering can happen without hitting the absolute bottom, there is always room to climb out of a hole.

    Classic addict behavior is to blame-shift, minimize, deflect, denial, or rationalize. He probably does all of these. That's why it's a problem. We do these things to feed the addiction or compulsion. The brain wants what the brain wants. Telling him to shut off the dopemine facuet or fix the leak is painful and unpleasant. Plus he may not even know how to. Deflection, excuse, etc. is his issue, IT IS NOT A REFLECTION ON YOU. I'm sorry he doesn't get it, or at least know how it truly affects you.
    If in fact you are looking at men as he suggests, Stop. No one likes s hypocrite. But if you are not, nothing to worry about keep being the good woman you are.

    Can you define what objectifying women is? Can he define what objectifying women is? Maybe you two have different definitions and are miscommunicating.
    Same goes to what he means by "attractive". Yes there are other attractive people in the world besides you two. So what, good for them. What is considerate is that he never behaves in a way that you would feel 2nd class to them or that he would ever prefer any of them over you, not physically, emotionally, socially, mentally, or spiritually. If you are saying you don't feel safe, it is his obligation to meet that need for you. If he is unwilling than he is only trying to serve himself. That is no relationship at all. Again I'm sorry you are going through this.

    Guilting him about his issue by bringing up his daughters probably didn't get you the results you wanted. I would find that offensive, dismiss it, and compartmentalize my behavior and believe that I was a special exception or whatever. It's always better to lead with love. That is easier said than done, sorry it's so hard. Besides he already has justified All men do his bad behavior, and by objectifying women they aren't people just sexual tools for his gratification anyway, he probably supposed it's happening around him. He just blocks it out like he does with every other uncomfortable reality, no biggie to him.
    Until he can realize what you realize, that every woman has innate worth and aren't sexual meat for predator behavior. That ever woman, lady, and girl had a soul and life and humanity, dreams, ambitions, goals, and intrinsic value in this universe, he won't stop ooglying.

    Ooh let's unpack this! Of course it hits your self confidence. How could it not. Here is the man you yearn to please and serve, share and dream with and he isn't noticing you. Or he is inviting other gals into his mind instead of you. You should have to compete, he chose you, he made vows to you and you alone. No other woman was dressed as gorgeous that day, you stood there alone. Why would any other girl be invited now. It is classic response behavior for you to try and compete by being sexier, younger, thinner, more erotic, etc. You desire his complete affection, attention, and devotion. Don't fail victim to the lies that you have to be a certain size, freakiness, etc. in order to fulfill him. Practice self-care. Be you for you, yes considerate of him, but not at the expense of your true self. Most all women have body, esteem issues especially as they age. Throw any poisonous belief system out the window.
    You are innately beautiful. Your heart, you mind, your character make you who you are. All these attributes make you wonderful. Don't believe for a second that sexiness is what creates your value. (Weren't we just saying your hubby only sees sexual values in girls?)
    You don't need to satisfy his unquenchable sexual appetite by being someone you're not! Be kind to yourself, please.

    Next, you say (my husband has a high sex drive). I smell BS. What does that even mean? Had he ever done a reboot? How does even he know what his true drive is? I suspect as long as he is chasing dopamine hits, he always has the pump primed ready for action. I believe he probably masturbates, and likely looks at porn. (I don't know from this post) the ooglying is just bleed over from those compulsions. He behaves one way when he is in private and another in public.

    The reason he can't be intimate is likely because of porn and masturbation. PM hijack our brains and make it IMPOSSIBLE for real connections and intimacy. The best of us like to think we are able to, but we don't know the first thing about intimacy because we live in fantasy-land and numb out pain. It takes quite some time clean before we even begin to recognize what real connection even means. Don't buy his excuses to keep the lies going. His brain wants what it wants. He will definitely use sex as a numbing comfort tool for his in ability to deal with negative emotions. You nailed that diagnosis sister!
    What should happen is he put on his big boy pants and learn to confront every emotion head-on and appropriately coping with all of them in healthy ways. Using you, Porn, or his hand is never a healthy solution and is immature emotional coping. Being used for sex is awful. I am so sorry that you are dehumanized this way.

    Again you're expecting him to have a connection to reality that he knows nothing about. You were expecting a normal emotional response to a difficult situation with your pet, again cold and self serving. His brain wants what it wants, it will always chase the high of his sexual appetite. Sad, really sad.
    Broken promises and more lies are the mantra of us addicts. Denial. It is too painful to face the sad reality of what's really hurting us so we hurt those around us. It is possible he wanted to change a month ago, but doesn't know how. Fear drives shame, shame drives denial, denial keeps us from change. You obviously can't force him to change, that would always backfire. Too bad too, since you desperately want it. He will need help to overcome sexual compulsions/addiction. The sooner he realizes that the better it will be for you two. Again, I AM SO SORRY.

    No it's not possible. Again definitions. What does he even mean by he gets "nothing" out of it? Does that mean he sees a woman and he didn't jack off so he's good? Does it mean he stared and stared and was still limp so - nothing? Is he saying he couldn't even identify any characteristics of the woman if asked by police had she been involved in an incident? We all should be getting something by human interaction how is it possible he gets nothing, that's plain stupid.
    If he says he will see a professional, hold him to it. He needs somewhere to learn and be safe, and be held accountable. More than likely he will try and manipulate that relationship too, but I wouldn't be too worried. I'd have him promise that if he thinks that therapist is a quack, he will always find another until one works. Don't let him one and done to pacify your boundaries. It's either him or them, and not every therapist can be wrong. Remember the brain wants what it wants, he will use any tool to satisfy and justify his behaviors.

    As for you get some help. It's more than likely you are suffering some trauma and could benefit from guidence and love. Frequent arguments can't be healthy.

    I've said enough so far, I wish you the utmost success and healing of your hearts. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Be kind to yourself.

    Peace
     
  4. That he kept looking at that other woman at the bar, while you were talking to him, imo, it's lack of respect for you. He wasn't fully paying attention to what you were saying.

    He is definitely lying. He's not honest with himself, let alone you.

    I pray for you both.
     
    fadedfidelity likes this.
  5. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    @Tourmaline, sadly it does not sound like he is ready to stop this habit yet, despite you letting him know what it is doing to you. I have been collecting a list of useful threads here about ogling, and when he is ready to tackle his problem I'm sure he'll find lots of useful tips, techniques, and discussion therein. He can fix this, many of us porn addicts have. The list is buried in my journal post here. Good luck!
     
    Vizsla Dad likes this.
  6. Wait one second. You’re telling me that he was sitting with you at the bar and eyeing another women right in front of you?
    He knows this behaviour bothers you and he isn’t doing anything about it.

    Next time he does that do yourself a favour. Stand up, don’t say a thing, and walk out. No, it’s not to punish him, it’s because you’re a beautiful woman who won’t tolerate being disrespected like that. You mentioned your daughters... would you want them to sit around watching the men they love ogle other women or would you feel proud of them for standing up and walking away? You have tried speaking to him but it’s clear he is still in the denial stage. So stand up for yourself and leave that situation. If he follows you and wants to know what’s wrong. Don’t yell or get angry just explain that you refuse to sit there and be disrespected, then leave. Go get your hair done or your nails done. Go do something for yourself instead.
     
    egil, Chefb87, fadedfidelity and 2 others like this.
  7. IamOlive

    IamOlive Fapstronaut

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    That sucks. If my husband was checking out a woman’s ass repeatedly while talking to me, I’d be pissed.

    With that being said, I’m not of the mindset that men and women can’t notice other people and think they are attractive.

    Where my personal definition of ogling happens and what I’m not okay with is

    1. Lingering glances or going back and forth for another peek
    2. Making inappropriate comments
    3. Sexual thoughts about the person
    4. Comparing them to me

    Which to me he sounds like he did. :(
     
    Joe1023 likes this.
  8. fadedfidelity

    fadedfidelity Fapstronaut

    OOOhhhh, I like it!! Yes.
     

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