A question for men about checking women out

I've noticed that these types of statements are some kind of illogical somersault porn addicts use to make their victims (yes, I believe an SO is every inch of a victim) feel gaslighted, controlling and crazy. It's in the line with "should we go blind folded on the streets?!" "Should men be locked in a basement so we can't SEE other people?!"

No. It's pretty obvious (once the porn addict is willing to take personal responsibility) that we aren't talking about noticing good looking people. Everyone with somewhat functioning eyes will see people of the opposite sex, some attractive, some not.

But it's very different to see a beautiful individual, and oogle that person. Or masturbate to that person. Or obsessively stalk that person on social media or in real life. Non addicts in relationships notice, and then they move on; no licking of the lips, no second look, no comments, no picturing of that person naked or taking pictures under that person's skirt. You don't need God or a blindfold to refrain from said behaviour, just common sense and the smallest sliver of respect for the partner you actually chose yourself.

 

And indeed should we expect women to totally cover up in public..

 

I don’t think it’s a somersault to say that if you treat your partner as “guilty until proven innocent” it’s going to have long-lasting effects in how each person relates to each other.

1). Generally speaking a hurt spouse may Desire to control or obsess in analyzing every look, but it’s not practical. Porn is practiced in private in most marriages— where the wife obviously has had little impact in preventing it —- why do you suggest that to deal with oodling the SO is fully able to change the man in The process ?

Instead, I gently suggest an SO could admit as a partner they have zero control of their partner's eyes. If he looks maliciously, (which I am not sure all looks are malicious) it’s not her fault.

The men who struggle with oodling while single should understand it’s disrespectful because it’s objectifying a woman. It is not deemed unacceptable only when married.

2). Men look at porn, like it , yet hate it, yet determined to try not to— only to self loathe themselves to where no grace is applied and feeling badly, they go back to it.

You are advocating a 2-person version of this cycle. You can not control a partner into a healthier relationship without becoming a field Marshall in the process.

 

I really appreciate your genuineness......

Really how plain heartedly you are curious about the thing.. Very nice.....


Frankly I can't say what others guys things since these are not always spoken up upon...

But I don't imagine here nude or performing an act if it is a fast/ imidiate kind of look.

Yes but there are desires that internally I say that..... She is looking hot....

I don't know are you getting anything out of it.. What I said...

 

People are varied, and so are porn addicts, so we cannot say for certain what is going through his head. I can tell you what was going through mine. It is difficult (for me at least) to really plumb the depths of what I'm thinking, I'm more use to letting it all wash over me, but here's my attempt:

1. Sometimes it is mainly aesthetic, I'd think "she's beautiful" and then I'm captivated by her looks. This is similar to being in a gallery and just finding oneself absorbed in an amazing painting
2. Similarly she might look very sexy. Some women assume this is because of provocative clothing but it isn't, anything can look sexy on a person who wears it well. This was a problem one for me. If a woman whom I found sexy cycled past me on the way home I might speed up so that I could keep her in view and appreciate her cute ass, demure face, sexy summer skirt, fine legs, or whatever it was that grabbed my attention.
3. I'd fantasize about friendship and intimacy. Not necessarily sex but chatting to her as she gets dressed in the morning. I imagine both the sense of trust and sharing but also the detail of her underwear.
   
4. This one's clearly porn-addict thinking, and I doubt most men thought this, but I would often find myself planning out which search terms I would need to use on a porn site in order to find shoots of porn actresses who looked the same as the woman I was ogling. Things like summer cotton dress, pink fir coat, long red hair, or whatever. I think it was this thought process that made me first start doubting that my ogling was just natural and that it was OK to leave it unchallenged.
5. This one's worse. If a fantasy develops in my mind it sometimes goes darker and starts to involve coercion:
   Spoiler: Trigger Warning

   What if I accosted her and forced her to undress for me?

There you go.

@Tired Of Being Lied To what does he say he is thinking about? Does he know how compulsive (and sleazy) it looks? It is hard to get inside our own thought processes. I don't know if women find it easier and are thus frustrated when we men struggle to put words to our thoughts. And, as @quit@porn says, this is not something guys talk about so it is hard to judge what is typical.

I have stopped (or at least drastically reduced) my ogling behaviour, at first very consciously (journal post) and recently more subconsciously (journal post).

@Tired Of Being Lied To I hope your husband conquers his porn addiction and the related behaviours that cause you pain. There is inevitably some pain in any long term relationship but at its heart marriage is about making our partners feel better about themselves, not worse, and I hope you both find the route through to mutual support, admiration, and love. Does he journal here?

 

I didn't write ANYTHING about proving anyone guilty, nor did you. That was not what my message was about at all.

This is just inherently wrong. It's not an SOs job (or desire) to control their PA partner. It's your job as a PA and husband to control yourself! When you consistently refuse to, your partner might be super vigilant in order to protect herself from her abuser. That's your partners right.

If a PA can't control his behaviour, it's the PAs responsibility to be honest, get help or step away from the relationship. It's never right or defendable to disrespect or emotionally abuse the ones closest to you.

 

Ok... I actually took a step back from this thread and thought about some things. The title of the thread is literally “men checking out women”... I mean does grass grow as well? Lol.

I agree with most of what everybody says. But to be honest it’s not big of a deal at all. Everybody in the world can check someone out.. not just men. I see women checking out men.. and you don’t see me post a thread and complain about it. Us men imagine a lot of things, but in reality we already know where we stand. Try not to oversee everything your husband is doing that’s when your trying to become the man in the relationship. It’s a real turn off for most men out there.

He still loves you... that’s why he’s still there with you. Simple as that. Your only going to make it worse if you start assuming the little things he’s doing. To be honest being observant is a good trait to have. Just try not to assume he’s cheating on you or your not good enough for him. That’s when you start imagining all these negative thoughts going through your head and questioning everything about a small issue...

Please try to understand that its not a big deal. There’s really more important things out there that he’s trying to accomplish. Having a wife is his biggest accomplishment by far. Because he chose you, he’s willing to love you, and take care of you. That’s a fact.

I apologize if I’m being a d***. But I can tell that most of us in society are becoming a little to sensitive about small things then for some reason make it even a bigger issue...

 

I'm struggling with the lack of focus on @Tired Of Being Lied To's actual questions:

I've pointed @Tired Of Being Lied To at my list of ogling threads here, and I've tried to answer her question personally here. I think it would be great if we answered her question, instead of arguing the morality of ogling.

 

Ok so all the guys here can’t stare or oogle anymore. Alright guys (porn addicts) she’s right. Lets all apologize and only stare at our woman. We can’t go outside anymore either or do anything because there is women out there. Since the whole point of NoFap for men is to become a better person. Because according to her ALL MEN “can’t stare or oogle”. If a female does a presentation in a TedTalk remember to only stare at your woman. She will love the attention.

Like really? We’re here trying our BEST to remove PMO from our lives. Then your coming out here to accuse us to be porn addicts (when literally that’s what we’re trying to resist) your only making the situation worst. That’s basically taking away our free will to do anything. When your married, a woman can stare at a hot guy. I’m not gonna get on here and say “MY GIRL IS STARING AND OOGLING AT THIS ATTRACTIVE DUDE, I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I HOPE SHE ISNT CHEATING ON ME.” See how pathetic that sounds. Now remember which site your on jeez.

What in the world... This is literally a FIRST WORLD PROBLEM(staring and oogling). Are u kidding me right now. Lol

You know what. PM me so we can talk. I don’t wanna argue on this thread.

 

Staring/oodling sounds creepy and is not what i am describing.

What I am discussing is the glancing and noticing. This habit is aggravating. Nuisance.

Scenario#1
Friendzone Girl—“did you just look at her?”
Guy—“yes”.
Friendzone girl says “ok, cool well she is cute right ?”

Scenario#2
Girlfriend—“did you just look at her?”
Guy—“yes”.
Girlfriend says: “ you seem to notice all the girls with that body type. Honestly it kinda bugs me . I don’t like it but I get it. She’s cute “.

Scenario#3
Wife—“did you just look at her?”
Guy—“yes”.
Wife says: “ What is wrong with me that you look at other women? Can’t you just stop looking at other women and respect me?”

The assumption his relationship fulfills his need to look is fundamentally flawed.

Instead of asking “why does my husband look at women when he’s with me,” we could ask— why/how does the husband not realize he’s oodling when he’s with his wife?”

... it’s calling the guy to be more self aware and monitor his wandering eyes. I personally think the best solution for that is a spiritual one.

@Tired Of Being Lied To
Apologies if my posts sound cold — I’m not sure if you felt that. I think best when I detach my emotions from my thought process. I have faced this problem and don’t advise micromanaging it as the SO, instead —-know you are beautiful and any glancing he does must not let you doubt your value in his heart. This is tricky virus to isolate and eliminate. I agree with Lila here— this is his job to attack.

Ok— thanks for clarifying.
Agreed.

 

No one said you, or anyone, can't look at other people, or notice their attractiveness. It's very normal and not what we are discussing here. If you are unsure of what oogling means, Google is your friend.

Both men and women are generally uncomfortable with their partner compulsively and sexually staring at others, especially if porn has already grinded down the relationship to virtually nothing. That's just reality. To somehow mix that up with following a TED-talk is not only ridiculous, but highly disruptive.

If you are on NoFap because you are a porn addict, then you are a porn addict. How do you like it to be sugar coated to your liking? "Nudity aficionado"? There is no stigma in being a porn addict in search for help, quite the opposite.

Why would I wanna PM you?

@Tired Of Being Lied To There seems to be a compulsive behaviour behind his actions. Brain plasticity is very much like walking through a field covered in high snow; eventually you will make a path that it's difficult to diverge from. The brain finds comfort and efficiency in performing a certain activity (connecting it to a reward that might not even be present), and "forgets" what "normal" is. Bottom line: he is so used to doing this, he can't stop.

If he is made conscious of his behaviour, he could learn strategies to interrupt it and eventually, stop it altogether.

 

I like how you deleted your post after mine.

Good thing I referenced what you said on my second post. Because you literally did mention it’s about oogling and staring.

If anyone wants to check read her quoted message on my previous post. And tell me if she is not being sarcastic...

 

So what he checks others chicks? Yeah he finds them pretty but thats how men brain works and you cant do nothing about it, its normal.

 

Yes I do feel that, it was a bit more harsh.... She should consider others views as well

 

That's correct, I deleted it out of respect for those men in here that work on their issues. I don't want them to think I meant something disrespectful, as I have nothing but utmost admiration for a porn addict in treatment.

For those who continue to blame and gaslight their partner while behaving like a pervert, I have no respect and will never have. I was indeed sarcastic in that post, so at least you got that right. It's funny how you felt the need to point that out when it was so blatantly obvious.

 

I believe it's in our nature to want to check girls out and it doesn't mean anything (just like I guess women also check men out).

That being said, I understand how it can be hurtful or upsetting if he does that in front of you.

I've always strived to dedicate my focus to my girlfriend whenever she was around. Even though I would see pretty girls I would apply myself not to check them out wit my gf around. And I always applied myself to check girls out in a non-invasive, non obvious fashion. Otherwise I think it's just being rude, unconsiderate and creepy for the girls you check out as well as one's partner.

That said, maybe your husband really actually doesn't even realize that he does just that. Good chances there is no harm intended but if it reallze bothers you and he does not realize it, try to talk rationally and objectively about it with him: try not to blame him or accuse him. Try to approach it as a compulsive behavior and sork with him to change that habit. He has to be onboard with this though. If he keeps being on the defensive and stuff it will be complicated. But if he really cares for you I guess I'll make efforts to change that.

PS: and remember on these forums some posters are sometimes very young and not everyone comes from the same country i.e. maybe in some parts of the world ogling and staring is not a big deal (though I doubt it's not a big deal foe the women..) while in the Western world it's kinda rude.

 

That is easy in my experience, there is no thought at all. For me it was being on instinctual autopilot. Personally I always needed a lot of time to develop to the point of fantasy so it can't happen at first glance. And I would think that is rather unlikely in general because if someone had a strong imagination, they would be less likely to need external visual stimuli - but that's what's driving things in this kind of situation. Of course imagination is one thing and the internalized porn narrative is another. The inner process may vary if it's someone that would talk about it openly with the guys though, I'd imagine.

Of course, no thought is one thing, no awareness of behavior is another.

Edit: Not sure if anyone here is interested in this distinction, but to me the deeper question is intention. Getting a pleasurable hit is a basic, simple intention even if it isn't one driven by higher functions.

 

Ma'am,
Your questions is genuine, but I don't think you will get answer here on this forum, because it not only women who feel insecure (we men also do although the percentage perceptions may vary) .....

Talking about intensions then also ans is, that it depends upon the person, so best part of this que can be answered by ur partner ( I know u feel that he lies) but, how could we answer these things for him????? .....

I can tell u that what does I think or feel, 99% of the time when I look a good looking girl or women, I appreciate her looks including body( u may not like it, but yes it is true for me at least) but then instantly I forget also, on very few occasion I do fantasy as well if I could have her image in my mind, which is not generally the case as I said I forget ( but ogling, harassing, crossing line was never and will never be in my mind )

I don't know if u could get something from this ans.......

You will have to talk to him only......... Or you can ask here some specific questions....

Why don't you give it a try to questionier?? Make list of que which will give to data and we the addict ( haha) will poll on it?

May be you could get some useful insight from it ( a suggestion)....

Best luck you ur hubby may not tire you " By lieing" From 2020

 

* may instead of you