Your life is an occasion; rise to it.

Marise,

Thank you so much for sharing this. That is very well written. I would love to hear more from you.

 

Thank you Marise! PLEASE vent here! I try to not censor myself and write how I feel and I always feel guilty and apologize for "negative posts" but The Eleven always tells me to write how I am feeling. I notice a difference in my mood when I post how I feel instead of worrying about what others are thinking about me, a big problem of mine that I will one day post about when I am feeling ballsy enough... I have a very...messed up past. Maybe I will have the strength to do that and not be so worried.. I am going to think about doing this tonight. Thank you for being honest, that is so important.

 

Just beautiful Marise! It is as if you came inside my head and wrote how I was feeling. Here I am 2 years later and still these issues come up for me. It is so important that women share their stories so that we can show how it affects us. I have found that forums like this one is the only place you won't get dismissed.

Last night we were watching out current favourite show "outlander" and it was the beautiful scene of Jamie and Claire's consummation of marriage. I broke down in tears because we never had sex on our wedding night and we were already neck deep in sex issues by the time we even got married. Like you, I stayed because I loved him.....but part of me also hated him. I felt disconnected. My wedding day was one of the worst days for me. To say my relationship has been confusing is an understatement and I too go back and forth with rage and love. I also have a life now tainted with insecurities whereas before I felt much more sure of myself. I know there is something for me to learn in all of this. I just can't quite figure out what! I am so glad we have come this far and I am slowly getting to the place where there is MUCH more love than rage.

 

Marise, maybe the person you hate is not Ghengis, but a diseased mindless caricature of Ghengis caused by his PMO addiction. I can attest to this. When in the grips of a PMO session our reason gets shorted out and we act on instinct. It is such a strange feeling, actually, because there is little control over our actions and all the reasons we tell ourselves not to be doing what we are doing get thrown out the window. We become different people, addicted, greedy, lustful caricatures of ourselves. I'm not trying to excuse it, but just saying that the Ghengis you love and the Ghengis you hate are not the same person. PMO Ghengis is just an addiction that has taken control of his mind and body.

So don't think you hate the loving, caring, kind Ghengis that you laugh with, wink at and watch mindless movies with. That is the true Ghengis that is trying to take control of back from the false Ghengis. He needs all the support you can give him to pry himself from that other Ghengis' clutches. Only your love can make true Ghengis grow strong enough to beat the false Ghengis. I know that sounds sappy, but that is what recovering from an addiction is all about. Nourishing our true selves so that our false selves shrivel and die of starvation.

 

Well girls, I just have one thought. Usually fapping and watching porn is not about you. You could be the most beautiful, young girl in the whole world, with the greatest body, personality and sex skills, and still taht wouldn't make a difference. Your husband, boyfriend, whatever, would still PMO. So while your insecurities are completely understandable, they are -usually- unreasonable.

PMO is about the dopamine hits of novelty, and you can't match that and that is not your fault. The key to a successfull reboot is to exchange the dopamine hits of PMO with the dopamine hits of something else. Finding that something else is the rebooters responsibility and one should actively search for something more healthy, that can make him/her feel good. If someone just tries to abstain, but doesn't find a substitute...it won't work. The relapse is inevitable.
I try to encourage people to find some activity to do, that makes them happy, gives them some novelty (not as much as PMO but still) so they can soften the withdrawals, and eventually be able to quit for good.

Also, you have every right to feel angry and sad about a relapse because that means that your partner is still not dedicated enough to quit. I would treat a relapse much more seriously than an average Fapstronaut here, but that's just me.
I wish you all strenght!

 

Hi Marise,

The bad and good parts of myself are exactly as you described. I felt for so long that I was being consumed by the bad as the good slowly dissipated into the darkness, like the spirits Vaatu and Raava from The Legend of Korra (been watching a lot of it lately, sorry). Two sides of one internal world fighting simply to keep the balance, never one to completely destroy the other.

Yet I felt as though this balance was disrupted, allowing my dark side to take over, the light being too weak to fight. Having never experienced such heartbreak and strife in my life, I grew up incredibly idealistic while always being able to forgive and see the good in those around me. I understand your battle completely.

I really believe this is one of the trials I need to become who I am meant to be, and I believe it is the same for you and all other women on this forum. To learn boundaries, to discover the ideals you would give your life for, to become a balanced and strong person who knows what she wants. Over time the light came back, if only to spark the realization that the way I was feeling and behaving every day wasn't right.

I knew letting the darkness take over was not only hurting me, but preventing growth. Striving to be the person you know you are inside while dealing with harsh life circumstances really strengthens you. I see you to be not only someone who is hurting, but someone who is determined enough to get through this stronger than before. You have a fiery passion that rests in every thought you lay bare. (and I do love your writing!)

I still feel angry, disgusted, torn apart, fearful, and completely devastated at times just as you do. It's alright for you to feel this way, no one can take that from you. I agree with @mumchance. I used to get so pissed off that he couldn't control himself. How is that possible? How can you not think of the one you love before you hurt them? This addiction changes you into the complete opposite of who you are at the depths of your core.

When my boyfriend was PMO'ing frequently, he had no respect for me or what I thought. When he would "relapse", he would tell me he just did it. There was no conscious thought. That's what it does to you. He wasn't awake, fully conscious of his actions and the effect they have on others. I now understand that the guy who I watch anime with for hours on end, the one I laugh and cry and silly dance around my apartment with is the real one. The one who gives in to temptation, who lies and ignores my need for transparency and validation is a husk of a man.

The important thing to keep in the back of your mind is that your boyfriend is awake now. He understands now, maybe not all of it (such as how it's made you feel), but he'll get there. My boyfriend is still struggling with this as well.

I'm here for you if you ever need to talk. Don't ever stop fighting for that good part of yourself.
(and I apologize for hijacking your thread, just wanted to relate )

 

I think on a conscious level we all understand this. The insecurity comes from the lying and betrayal mostly. At least for me it did. I knew that I was the one my husband wanted to be with but because of PIED he wasn't able to and it became a vicious circle. When a man chooses sex outside of the marriage does the reason really even matter? You still, as a woman, will blame yourself for it. It isn't always "rational or logical" but that is the nature of being a woman. We are feeling creatures!

 

@Limeaid @marise0705

Of course, I perfectly understand your standing. I didn't want to dismiss your feelings, just wanted to put the other perspective there. My point ultimately is, that I heard from some girls, that they think if they become more like their boyfriends, husbands favorite porn star, he will stop PMO and have sex with them instead. So the girls watch the guys favorite videos, and try to act like a porn star. And while this reasoning is understandable as well, still not correct, because of the reasons I mentioned above. I did not want to imply that you are like this, but maybe at some point it has crossed your mind or will cross someone else's, who reads this thread.

Just a question: do you consider masturbation sex? I mean do you think that there is a place for masturbation in a marriage/relationship, or not?
(Personally I think that masturbation is completely unnecessary in or out of a relationship, but I'm curious about your view.)

 

I do understand that you didn't mean any disrespect and I did not take it as a dismissal at all!! I just wanted to offer a woman's point of view on it which might be hard for a man to understand since it may not be logical or rational

Not sure if the question was directed at me or not but thought I'd respond!! Before PMO I thought masturbation was perfectly fine and not a problem at all. I knew my husband did it and he knew I did it and we thought having sex 1-2 times a week (in the beginning way before PIED) was normal....even great! Well now that we are having sex 4-5 times a week on average I can say that M definitely interfered with our sex life, even in the beginning before PIED. My husband is completely anti-masturbation and says he will never ever do it again ever. He is very adamant that M robbed him of a good and fulfilling sex life for many years. I really can't say exactly what I think because I don't really have to do it anymore and I always preferred sex to M anyway. There was a time in our relationship where I loathed it. I think for single people it's ok in moderation but in relationships I don't understand the need. Even if there was a scenario where the wife couldn't have sex I think a husband shouldn't have to resort to PMO. I personally feel it is a husband and wife duty to provide that for the other in some way, even if it's hand jobs all the time!!

 

Hi again Marise, since you mentioned Naruto Shippuden I wanted to share this:



I cry whenever I watch this episode, it is so beautiful.

Like Nagato, Ghengis may be a monster at times when he is PMOing. But just like Nagato, that is not his true nature. There is light in him and, like Naruto, you have the power to draw it to the surface. Naruto used compassion, and I think that is your weapon. Fuel your compassion with your anger. Make that monster your friend.

Haha, I'm sorry about that forced analogy, but I hope it helped some. Perhaps I just posted this so I could geek out about how awesome Naruto Shippuden is.

 

@Limeaid , @marise0705

Thank you dear ladies for your elaborate answers. That certainly shed some light on the issue for me. I'm with my gf for a bit more than 5 months now. In the first 2 months it was kinda uncertain if we'll last because of the 8 years age difference between us. I still PMO-d during those months, but cut back on it. Then when we worked through that issue, I decided to stop P, but keep M, because since we won't have sex until marriage anyway, I might as well release my tensions through M. Then I decided to talk to her about all this NoFap stuff and she asked me to stop M-ing as well, not just P. I wasn't sure if her request was fair that time, because for a man in his prime, no orgasms even when he has a gf...that seemed kinda harsh.

Her reasoning was that sex should be practiced in marriage and since M-ing is a sexual act, it is somewhat sexual immorality. I didn't agree with that, and I don't agree even now. But she promised, that if we get married, she'll take care of me whenever I want if I keep away from M-ing. I thought that's a fair deal then, so I agreed.
Plus, after my first reboot, I thought I could keep M but ditch P, but that didn't work out too well, so yeah, exactly what Marise said: "moderation is not possible" At least for me.
I was wondering how other girls think about M-ing, that's why I asked. Thanks again!