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P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Fenix Rising, May 12, 2019.

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  1. What dosage of of Arimidex were you thinking of? I pressume very low doses every other day or a couple times a week. 1mg is a very strong dose for people who don't use steroids. You don't want to shutdown your estrogen levels man. It can get really bad. If you don't take aromatizing steroids like testosterone or dianabol I would be really carefull. I used low dose aromasin at 5mg every third day. It maybe made me a little more confident in the beginning and slowly faded away anyway and started feeling more tired. (Could also be nofap related) I was still in withdrawal and having symptoms like social anxiety, brain fog, insomnia. You name it, I had it. My perfect hormones did not affect the way how I felt.

    I have no real explanation why some get acute dopamine withdrawal, why some heal faster than others, only get PAWS, For some withdrawal started after a few weeks, for some months and some others never get withdrawals. Some get setbacks after they are feeling healed. And there are these lucky dudes that have nothing but "superpowers"

    I guess it all depends on the kind of edging and binging session you been through, what genre and tolerance you had/have and for how long you participated in the addiction. Also the duration of the edges/binges may play a part. Other lifestyle factors and genetics and epigenetics play a huge part too.

    I hypothesize that the brain starts missing the dopamine high after a while. And causes us cravings and withdrawal to get us back to the addiction. Because DeltaFOSB changed our brain structure into an addicted state. When the brain starts missing this habit, it things it's needing it for surviving. A lot of brain changes occur and start resetting during abstinence. This avtivates the anti-reward pathway. This causes HPA axis dysfunction. Overactive and sensitized stress hormone receptors and stress hormone release from the amygdala, hypothalamus and the adrenals cause an increase of the levels of dynorphin (which decreases dopamine further and causes dysphoria and depression) norepinephrine (fast heart rate, anxiety and shaking) and corticotropin releasing factor will all be released. Increases in cortisol will cause insomnia, and can cause a decline in testosterone. GABA levels go down during withdrawal also. It causes massive anxiety with severe physiologal and psychological reactions. Causing all kinds of hellish symptoms.

    The withdrawal will go away when every interconnected neurotransmitters, receptors and hormone systems regain homeostasis. Why do some get withdrawal right away? Why do some after 10, 20 or even 50 days get a late onset of withdrawal? I can't answer that. Why do some stop getting withdrawal while relapsing? Why do some only need 90 days? This remains a mystery. A lot more studies should be done on this topic.

    I still stand by the premise that porn is the problem, not steroid hormones. Because my bloodwork was perfect. I sometimes get withdrawals right after a relapse and sometimes it takes two weeks or more weeks. I had periods without any PAWS and felt healed. Strange addiction this is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  2. showmethepmofacts

    showmethepmofacts Fapstronaut

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    I’ll believe you when you say hormones aren’t in play here, seems like your high testosterone and low estrogen combo would have worked if they were. A strange addiction indeed.
     
    SLeepisLost likes this.
  3. AspiringVitality

    AspiringVitality Fapstronaut

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    Just came across this picture which shows us some more info on what we can focus on to heal even faster. Keep on keeping on guys. We'll get there!

    (sorry, couldn't find it any sharper than this one)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    I have terrible IBS - it would be fantastic if kicking the PMO habit permanently would allow me to eat normally again. At the moment, as well as avoiding PMO I'm on a really restrictive diet, that makes life in general even more difficult and miserable - it's like having two addictions that I need to quit simultaneously.

    Thanks for the graphic!
     
    AspiringVitality likes this.
  5. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    So guys, just to update everyone here. I attended a family wedding and met everyone in my close family after about 8 months. Me and my wife live in another city so yeah. At least 2-3 people said to me that I look younger and look different. And a few complimented me heavily regarding how healthy I am looking. Just to confirm, I am still going through heavy PAWS and social anxiety made it really difficult for me to be my normal self and interact with everyone normally. Despite this, I got compliments regarding self improvement and looking better than before in a why which I have never gotten before. Also to clarify, I haven't joined any gym etc or done any self improvement. All I have did is leave PMO. Just sharing my experience that despite being socially awkward, I got these compliments so it just makes my belief stronger that this PMO addiction is destroying us in many ways which we are yet to know. Also another change I have noticed in my body is that I don't have back acne anymore. I have had that for like 10 years and it never went away. It's just miraculously gone now in last 2-3 months.

    As of update on PAWS, not much improvement in that area still :(. Social anxiety is still very much there and so is general anxiety for no freaking reason.
     
  6. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    Can anyone whos ever gotten over PAWS or further along help me with the following, Im currently 11 months in;

    Around every 30 days or 90 days I have an attack of porn/sex fantasy of extreme extreme stuff, that tempts my to get escorts and try it. When this happens I get extreme throbbing in brain etc and a serious craving for the dopamine and excitement I get. Im scared one time Im gonna cave and go do the crazy sex stuff. These extreme porn/sex fantasy only started when I started nofap

    Does this type of extreme craving dissapear when healed? Could do with some motivational advice - the thoughts are seriously depraved and sick, and hoping they go away
     
  7. Younameit

    Younameit Fapstronaut

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    I've tried literally everything
    currently about to take ibogaine to do a reset of the brain chemistry/reward circuitry. Probably this sunday, I bought from a guy, awaiting the shipment
     
  8. ThomasTheCat

    ThomasTheCat Fapstronaut

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    Im looking foward to hear about your experience Younameit
     
    Younameit likes this.
  9. AspiringVitality

    AspiringVitality Fapstronaut

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    Unfortunately the only way is plowing through.
    Accept the thoughts, don't try to resist because what you resist persists. Say "hi" to those thoughts and don't identify with them. Then put focus on something entirely different.

    Whatever you do, never ever give in. It will get better. It really does
     
    Optimum Fortitude and dudealone like this.
  10. Younameit

    Younameit Fapstronaut

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    which receptors? hormone receptors or neurotransmitter receptors?
     
  11. Younameit

    Younameit Fapstronaut

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    I posted a similar picture here in this forum
    Bioenergetics and TRE (Tension release exercises) help release the tensions stuck in the body musculature therefore freeing one of the "frozen" state
     
  12. Most studies are done on dopamine d2 G-protrein receptors. with PET scans using a dopamine antagonist like raclopride that are made radioactive. I myself participated in a study on porn addiction and D2 receptors in the Netherlands. Androgen receptors work a little differently. Steroid users can use the same dosages years after years and still make gains. Almost no tolerance to nuclear androgen receotor.

    Opioid receptor dysfunction has also proven that mu-opioid receptors are not reacting for endorphines anymore. And in alcoholics and opioid addicts there is less dopamine projection fro the VTA to the nucleus accumbens. Ibogaine seems to repair these dopaminergic neurons in the ventral tegmental area and nucleus accumbens, reset opioid receptors and increase serotonin levels long after it's use due to it's metabolite noribogaine, which increases neurotrophic proteins like GDNF in the ventral tegmental area and BDNF in the nucleus accumbens. Repairing dopaminergic pathways and sensitizing receptors. this elmiminates wirgdrawal symptoms. After the treatment you should still work on yourself. It's not a magic cure but a tool.

    Porn and orgasms both share some of the same pathways in the mesolimbic system, so Ibogaine could work. Rats given morphine had way less orgasm intensity and vice versa.

    I'm here explaining things you probably researched yourself, so I don't want to sound like some kind of all knowing neuroscientist. I'm just an amature researcher.

    I wanted to try it when it was legal here in Holland, but started reading horror stories. So I changed my mind. Better have good calm trip sitter with you. Hydrate yourself, take electrolytes and messure blood pressure. Blood pressure can become dangerously low. I would never take that stuff alone and trip on a flood dose for 3 days straight without being able to move and puke all over the place and dehydratie and miss fruits and water

    Please give an update on how things went. Hope you get some good insights and repair. Keep us updated.

    Edit. I made this post after severe insomnia, brain fog and feeling anxious so made some spelling errors lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    clapas, dudealone and ThomasTheCat like this.
  13. Fallensoldier1

    Fallensoldier1 Fapstronaut

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    I want to get in on this thread as I believe I have suffered from paws as well. I want to read through this thread to give more of my symptoms and such. I have went 101 days hard mode and 204 days with no PMO. Then i fell back into it. I have had it so bad as being bed ritten and couldn’t exercise from feeling like crap after, headaches, stress and anxiety, crippling depression. I could be so happy and feeling so good for a hour or two a day, and then feel absolutely terrible for several more days straight. Lots of heart palpitations, fatigue, brain fog, laziness and I could go on and on.

    I will say flatline from starting nofap kicked in. I never had a problem with erections while fapping. I was always horny and always could get hard. Well nofap started and I loss libido, since I was rebalancing I suppose. Then I wanted to go hard mode, so went 101 days and it was hard to get there I was so horny around that time and hard a lot.

    after me and my wife started having sex again flatline hit, and hit hard, I couldn’t get it up, it looked dead and had no life. I tried hard mode again, it wasn’t going away very well.

    I’m saying this cuz I read someone say this, sometimes maybe our libido needs a jump start from another female. I wasn’t feeling in the mood at all, and it was hard getting me there, and the wife really had to try to get me hard, but once she did it was like jump starting a car, I was ready to go.

    this may not work for everyone, and you should try hard mode first. But if that’s still not working, try letting your wife’s help.
     
    winningover likes this.
  14. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    My story is very much similar to yours. After I cured my PIED, I did feel that flatline hit me again for a while but it was not as worse as before. As of PAWS, I also have heart palpitations, very high anxiety and lack of motivation. I have crossed 300 days with 3 months of hard mode in there as well. I wonder when my suffering will end : (
     
    Fallensoldier1 likes this.
  15. Fallensoldier1

    Fallensoldier1 Fapstronaut

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    Ah man I’m sorry to hear that. Tell me about your heart palpitations more. I’m not sure if I’m having them, if my heart is skipping a beat or what it is. But sometimes randomly it feels like it. Almost like a shot of adrenaline when something scares you or something. It’s weird. I don’t notice it and I feel real good while pmoing, but almost like I constantly need to be doing it. When I quit obviously I feel terrible. I’m definitely like a hypercondriact. Always worried about my heart, cancee, diseases etc.

    Dumb question, but are you doing health activities to replace PMO? Such as exercising, eating better, taking vitamins and herbs? Blah blah blah.. lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  16. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    Well, its because of high anxiety for no reason. I get into fight or flight mode for no reason. Then my heart starts beating extremely fast and then I tend to leave whatever situation I am in to get a breather. Sort of like a panic attack.
    Yes, but not so consistently. I need to get more on the exercise regime for sure. I have consciously tried to cut down sugar. Also tried fasting for 3-4 days but need more of that. I am not into taking vitamins etc
     
  17. LeeUK

    LeeUK Fapstronaut

    'depression, anxiety, insomnia, headaches backpain and joint inflammation are killing me right now.'

    This sounds worse than while doing pmo.. Is this really what you get at 90 days? If so then 100% abstinence is NOT the answer.

    Are you having any sex at all? At day 90+ I want to be confident and actively seeking intimate encounters with women. Not still depressed, suffering from headaches and joint inflammation??? (Wtf)

    This sounds ludicrous to me. If I experience any of that shit I will release my semen every 30 days or so in a way that doesn't involve porn. For example, sex.

    Are you sure 'PAWS' isn't something deeper than pmo addiction and may be linked with general, severe depression?
     
  18. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    It's complicated, but it is real.

    Everyone is different, and I've even noticed different responses within myself over time as I've got older. For the record, I am including all the symptoms mentioned above and more, exhaustion being the worst for me. I can attest from my own experience that all these things come and go according to my use of PMO, and the effects are severe and long-lasting. If you read back through this thread, you'll see people saying that it can take up to 2 years to fully recover in the worst cases, although how well / bad you feel at any given time is hard to predict.

    If you've found your way to this thread then basically, we are the experts - we are learning to pay attention, question things as honestly as possible, listen to our bodies, and try new approaches to living, coping and succeeding. As arrogant as it may sound, there is no-one out there who can claim to know any better - I doubt whether anyone (or at least a large group of people) in human history have ever gone where we have, and it's too new to have been studied properly. Not something to be proud of necessarily, but worth acknowledging.

    So although I've stated that "Everyone is different...", there is a sub-section on this community that are describing and experiencing the same broad suite of symptoms that go beyond performance issues (PIED etc). It's too consistent to be ignored, and it's been a relief for me to find it.

    PAWS may be linked to other, deeper problems for many, but from my own experience, managing a long PMO streak on it's own (ie no other changes) has allowed me to experience profound improvement in my health and wellbeing, so as far as I'm concerned abstinence works (preferably hardmode). The question is - why did we start PMO'ing in the first place, and why is it so difficult to stop? Could be personal trauma, pre-existing depression or other mental health issues, or for some, just the fact that it's just so damn accessible and addictive?

    It's a tough road to follow, but it's the only one that leads to a good place.
     
    winningover likes this.
  19. filmit57

    filmit57 Fapstronaut

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    My last hurdle is the brain fog it makes learning and recall very difficult. I will say the brain fog has improved a little bit but no where near what I’m hoping for. Everything else has improved a lot since I started, I am currently on a 380 day hard mode streak.
     
    Don Quixote likes this.
  20. I'm heavily addicted to porn (and to nothing else) myself and I would NEVER accuse someone who is in pain because of this addiction. However I'm really sceptical about PAWS. Well maybe you are right, Dave G, and it PAWS is real for porn addiction. How can we even find out?

    I think the problem is, that PAWS is researched and broadly understood only for substance abuse. Even the videos on the OP are actually about "substance addictions".
    I agree that we can learn from this. But be careful! Porn addiction is not substance abuse. For one thing there's no substance that is taken into the body. For another thing p.a. is neither heroin addiction, nor alcohol addiction, nor weed addiction and so on. These are ALL DIFFERENT kinds of addictions.

    Again, I'm not saying to anyone "hey, you can't have PAWS!". Naturally if anyone suffers from such symptoms and it looks like PAWS he or she can use this platform to talk about it.
    I'm just worried that some folks here could overreact and persuade themselves that they would have or get PAWS. The mind is a powerful thing, right? It can make things real!

    And when I think about it, it also bugs me that porn addiction (and other behavioral addictions) are still so little accepted and researched.
     

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