I wonder if I can ever find the right man for me?

So you want to discuss this? I actually don't. But you provoke objection in me, so much that I have to say this:
I find many of your arguments not convincing. You're using fighting words like "new conformism" or "Machiavellism" (I don't know to what or whom you refer by the former and I could agree on Machiavellism - but why do you even use this term?)
But you're allowed to use these words of course so back to the argumentation. You talk about monkeys and bacteria. But there are people who just enjoy these things, what do they care about the Bonobos. That sex is potentially dangerous because of sexual infection is nothing new. In a world where the sexual act would only be carried out in order to make a baby, sexual disease would stand no chance. But that is an intellectual pastime only and has nothing to do with reality.
(I hope "intellectual pastime" is intelligible. I looked it up. Not a native speaker here)
I also disagree that such practises like "oral" or "anal" would be a new phenomena. These are part of human sexuality for Centuries.

But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't accept your personal choices. In the contrary. Also, in the personal realm these hygiene arguments make sense. (The Bonobo not so much though )

I think we also agree in the role that porn plays. That it messes up the minds and sexuality of many people. I would also blame the p-industry for creating new fetishes like - let's take something prominently - the so-called "money shot". Yes, money is what they want to make and therefore they play with our instincts.

Now, what has happened in the World?
In "the old days", porn was a back room thing. The assumption was that porn was a thing for men, maybe mostly for male teenager, but certainly for "perverts". Watching hardcore porn meant you were either a hormone-driven male teenager, or a temporarily pervert (a man who, out of weakness, indulged in the world of perverts) or just a pervert (a fallen man, so to speak). In a word, it was omnipresent but it was legally restricted and morally condemmned by most of Society.
But that assumption was wrong! It's a little funny IMO. Because when we got fast internet in every household and smartphones, porn didn't stay where it was. We took it with us and it infected the New Media. Today we can see that it's like with smoking or sugar: it's not just for perverts. Every adult is susceptible to it. And sadly even kids are. They can access it with their smartphones easily and often bypass the blocking software that they understand better than their parents who were installing it.
Now some Countries even have identified it as a "public health issue" or "crisis". Here we come from technology to politics I guess. But not today

Have a good time @shedernatinus

 

I am perfectly aware these practices had been there for centuries. I am not that ignorant, but that does not make them any justifiable to me or any less cringy. In the ancient civilazations they were practiced by a small minority , mostly in brodels and by a small percentage of the population. Not like nowdays, where they have become so popular to the point of being almost expected and no critisizm is tolerated. What I really meant is that 40 years ago, only a minimal part of the community engaged in them, and there was still a taboo surrunding them. But the media clearly chose to alter society in a way that suits "liberalism" and "freedom". While at the same time never acknowledging the other part that choose not to follow the crowd. This is machiavellism and nothing else. And porn wasn't omnipresent at all in it's beginning, just ask some older people. Porn back then consisted of mild nudity and most of the time of piv sex. But the porn industry is the main catalyst behind where we are today, no man is born with the mind of a pervert.

 

yeah of course.
Don't assume you were like me just because of such superficial assumptions, you do not know me personally or have enough information regarding my other life aspects. I do not consider my views "preferences", they originate from my ideology of never acting against the natural order of human sexuality. Especially in order to keep a partner from leaving me and rejecting me.

 

I agree.

Yes, that word is more fitting for the present situation. But what I meant was that it was there all the time, porn shops, theaters, movies, magazines ... well I'm talking about what I remember from the 90's mostly. Don't know about 40 years ago.

Well said.

 

You might agree with her but I don't. I guess I rely on logic and value my dignity above all.
kisses and caresses and penetration might become free and unplanned, but I think that is it.

 

did you just assume my religion ? no one here brought any religion. Science is more than enough to show the flaws in your thinking, in my homeland 8 years old children know about the hardships of life more than any 30 years old westerner. I wonder if you will stay with an impotant husband who can no longer have sex? or maybe all the love will dissipate. Just like many cases reported on nofap by porn addicts with ED. I am willing to sacrifice for the people I love, but not to a unhealthy degree and to the point of loosing respect for myself as a human being. As for the religion, not everyone who opposes the new form of "sexual liberation" is automatically religious or fundamentalist, I am always arguing with religious freaks who want nothing more than to enslave womankind and never once they intimidated me. I don't care about money, I don'tcare about big houses and expensive clothing. Not tolerating alcohol doesn't make you unique in that matter and it is not a relevant criteria about the depth of your personality. Maturity has little to do with age, and more to do with insight and experience, many girls my age wasted their teenage years on stupid and useless things, while I wanted nothing to do than study hard and make my mother proud. I read a lot about grieving husbands and boyfriends who have been abondoned by their partners because they became impotent, after being given the same type of love and sacrifice as you did give, their primary concern is to have sex again and maybe even regain their partners. I don't care if my man won't be able to have as much as I want or not have sex at all, but I will react very negatively when I feel my dignity is on the line and that he prioritzes his pleasure and never considers the harms at all.

As for the natural order of things, I think looking into anatomy books and using human logic on biology and intelligence will give you a more definitive and realistic outlook on the most natural and safest version of sex than relying on religious books and pastors, and I think mouths and butts are not made for such things. Beside I am a secular and don't count on religion to solve all my problems.

Sacrifice doesn't have to involve the bedroom, it can be being content with normal clothing or being patient enough for many years till we buy our own house, or giving my partner the necessary time to find a job or even giving up on sex with a partner with medical condition. The modern generation has a very twisted concept of sacrifice and love, like the bedroom is the center of the world.

 

Yes, you are perfectly right in your opinion about the person going down degrading themselves. But I think to free yourself from any guilt or remorse you should never let a partner go down on you, just ASSERT your boundaries. And if the partner refuses to respect your view (which is very much sensible in my opinion) , there are not worthy of being your lover. You are right to believe this act is degrading (and I very much agree with you) but you should stick to your principles and never go against them, it will only make you feel unhappy.
I think what you meant with being "fine with receiving oral sex", is that you will feel sexual pleasure. This is completely expected, me too I will feel pure physical pleasure, but that doesn't mean I will change my position about it. This is a reaction mostly related to my anatomy, and not really to my knowledge about human anatomy, or the proper role of each organ. But still, I feel just like you do, and that is enough for me to never consider receiving this form of stimulation. I treat others the same way I wish to be treated, but I will never go easy on someone who abuses my kindness or try to deceive me.
It makes very much sense for the person going down to be seen as "degraded". Because this place is infested with millions of potentially dangerous micro-organism, urine (always leaking in small drops, mostly in males), and a lot of excrement (in both males and females), and letting your organ of consumption wander there is very much lacking in respect for your own person and your own instinctive and protective aversion. I believe most people had viewed it this way at some point in their lives, but repressed their natural repulsion, which is a natural defense mechanism,in order to blend into societal norms and avoid isolation and rejection. I do not see myself as "prude", I think being "prude" in nowadays standards will make me die as a happy old woman who has no regret. Who knows ? maybe this sexual "trends" won't last forever .

 

Yes I asked doctors about the acts portrayed in porn, and my worst fears were confirmed. oral is way more risky and harmful than any unprotected PIV intercourse between STI free partners, they told me about a lot of creepy incidents they encountered with patients who were having oral sex as a form of entertainment and novelty. Anal on the other hand, is a nightmare of it's own, but no less scary than oral sex. You will hear about everything truthful if you ask a sincere doctor who knows what they are talking about. Some people say they want to avoid infections and deceases by using protection, but it will still be using your mouth on a waste exit (vagina, penis, anus), even if the possibility of infection is reduced, the degrading connotation will still persist, either in the back of your mind or in your partner's mind.
It's scary how masses can be easily manipulated. I think sex and morality are never going to be exclusive. Humans are regulated by morality in every facet of their life, and sex is no exception. Some acts are instinctively viewed as degrading or gross, go ask 10 years old kids about eating some other human's genitals and I think they will not hold back from expressing their disgust, anal is also widely viewed to be disgusting because the anus is very dirty ,nasty and smelly, but I think most children will be completely accepting toward regular vaginal sex because that is how they were conceived.

 

I never said sex was just for making a baby, it is a very enjoyable experience every human have to experience at least once in their lives. And, yes I am African, north African precisely. I used to think most acts portrayed by porn are "natural", but that was back when I used to be a naive middle-schooler. I did serious research when I was in high-school, and little by little, every lie I have been fed had been shattered. Choosing to rebel against conservative teachings is good, as long as you won't blindly tame your natural repulsion just for the sake of conforming to your society. It is a defense mechanism that only had been useful to our specie since it's dawn. I have no doubt it is "pleasurable" even without being natural (and therefore biologically deviant, yes that is what it's technically speaking) as you have just stated, now I think we can agree on something.
I really trust you when you admit reading different versions of the bible, but I seriously doubt you have any consistent knowledge about the medical,anatomical and (maybe) the Darwinian "bible".
African people are not full of viruses, this is very racist and offensive. White men are not clean or sterilized just because they happen to have lighter skin tone. When my 62 years old mother was a teenager, she was told be a french settler who has lost her cat how my own people where savages, and how there was no way her kitty couldn't have been eaten by us, what a prejudiced ignorant person this woman was. It's sad a millennial have a similar mindset concerning people of their former colonies.

As for the protection issue, it won't really solve the problem because it will be still putting an organ somewhere else than the place it belongs to.
Early Taoists have found various ways to enjoy sex and oral or anal were rarely brought into the picture (if not never), with the right positions and the male endurance both sexual partners can have an intense climax, without using each others wrong holes in the equation.
I think you have a very shallow mindset about life in north Africa or Africa as a continent, a lot of African women are more enlightened and have stronger personalities than your average western woman, my mother is a fine example of this. My former teacher never backed down from raising her voice at impolite students and thugs who disrespected her, she also fully never approved of the western lifestyle. While the law will not invest much effort to assure her safety, she just was too strong headed and educated to bow down to any man , including her close relatives. In the colonization era many women engaged as volunteers in the popular resistance movement, many even took firearms to protect their families and villages. I'm sure these courageous women will most likely not differ with me on this particular "issue" I have shared here.

People of this generation ? I do not believe we have a wide age gap, you are just old enough to be an older sibling of mine. I haven't shown any potential anger unlike what you did with this reply, so I am not that much of a snowflake I guess.
Anyway I wish for nothing more than for you to find peace, as for me, I think I will look proudly on my past as an elderly person and think about how much mistakes I have avoided.
Well I think my open discussion about sex with my mother surely helped me learn about my body as a woman, she even told me to have as much sex with my future husband and enjoy his body and myself as a woman, but she always warned me to think for myself and always be critical of thing that are seen to be "normal" by a majority of society. That advice just saved my life and soul.

 

If you wan't to find a man, he will respect you for what you want and your preferences. Men have certain preferences to when they are with a woman. My co worker has told me that he loves feet and I never understand that and why its attractive. In my past sexual experiences I've never felt necessary to do such a thing. It strikes me weird also to why people have anal without a condom. I mean you can still get STD's and everything. I just don't get how they don't and yet they brag. I remember being in high school and some one was bragging about this situation with a friend and acted like they'll never get anything. I know they are dormant for some time so it just questions me.


Porn makes it seem safe as well as degrading and insulting. It makes us believe the unimaginable after a short period of time of being hooked on it. I'm not trying to change your mind, but I'm just saying that it can be wonderful in another way with love, acceptance, passionate.

 

Porn is not the only thing that makes it seem degrading, touching a person's waste outlet regardless of using protection is, overtly or covertly, seen as degrading. there are more people than you might assume who do not see it as "natural" or think it's "degrading" and won't dare to share their views. Also, the chance of getting infection is highly possible with those kind of acts who can clearly never be backed by biologists or even scientists.
I think it might seem loving only because one partner chooses to make a little sacrifice for the other's pleasure, but the idea of swaying the balance shouldn't be romanticized basing on this perception.
Even tribes in the amazons will mostly view this as degrading or disgusting while living (mostly) naked ,in complete harmony with nature and their bodies , I am sure these people also know how to love.
As for love, I don't think putting up with something like just out of sacrifice is the way to love, I love my dignity as a human being above all, and will respect my partner the same way I want to be respected.

 

No, this is just an ignorant reaction from you as well, people of African descent have nothing to envy you. I heard many women in here say the same thing about white people, we too are worried by you over liberal culture you know. People in my homeland rarely die from heroine overdose, or even cocaine's for that matter. Heavy drugs are alien to our culture, and we prefer it stays this way since we already have a hard time educating our children and teaching them that not everything western is "cool", science is cool, getting basic human rights is cool, I agree on that. those are real facts about your society as well, even STD's are not as common in here as in the west. So facts for facts.
Again, this doesn't aim to disrespect white people or any race for that matter (yeah, because mentioning the west is pointing the finger to white people, but that is what raging wife globally understood). hell, I am sure there are many white or westerners in general who agree with me, but if they spoke their voices will be silenced obviously.
But valuing my safety and life will not let me exclude this possibility, because how can I make sure I am interacting with a decent white person ? there are little clues for me to know.

I am inclined to believe you in that, because it is rational thinking you use in those disciplines, not the one regulated by pleasure hormones aka the hedonistic thinking. I believe it is disastrous when education values mostly memorizing information more than using it in real life. Being a medic doesn't mean that you will be follow a healthy lifestyle or keep in mind everything they taught you in medic school. Doctors are not perfect people, some doctors know about the dangers of drugs but they still choose to use it, others know about all the potential harms of cosmetics and they still consume it...etc.
You might have knowledge about some phenomenon, but you can prefer to ditch using this particular knowledge for some environment-induced reason. and it can work for many life aspects, so it is not only restricted on this topic.
What I loath is how modern culture frames oral sex as well as anal or even rimming as "natural" and "safe" or "acceptable and freeing", and take me for an idiot. At least they have to be truthful and sincere about sexuality and some sexual acts.
Other than that, I really want nothing to do with people who fancy those "stuffs" , other than telling them to stop underestimating my cognition.
But, the chill pill is a good one, I am sure it might one day save the world from violence and aggression.

this forum is a public platform , not the property of a restricted group, I don't think this is included in the forum's rules. If I am mistaken, then show me the light.
It is true that this platform centers about porn addicts who are recovering, but it is not obligatory to be an addict to join the forum or even to be the partner of an addict for all that matters.

Really, wow, if anything Charles Darwin made astonishing discoveries way back when naturalism was only a matter of observation. His knowledge was later confirmed by modern genetic science only recently.
If you think Darwin was a lost sailor, then tell me how did you come to this conclusion. If you found any flaws in his deductions then, please show the members of this forum the correct answers.

Thank you for that, I'll will have only one favor to ask, and that is not to convince everyone around you about the senseless propaganda used by liberals and spread the idea that an unsanitary act is "liberating" and "loving", so that those same people will participate in this collective delusion.
You will earn much more respect as a honest person by admitting that you enjoy an act that is naturally and organically deviant, and that is neither healthy or tasty or has to be loving at all. After all, who has the right to interfere in your own personal bedroom, this is your life , and this is your body and these are your progeny. But please, don't pull more people into your daydream.
Don't just assume that mister right can only be one of your peers , the world is wider than Europe or north america, mister right can be in any part of the world. the only thing you took wrongly is that he is hiding from ME, but I think he might more worried about hiding from YOU instead of me.

I think you like to use the word "you" a lot much more than I do, but generally I prefer using neutral sentences. the only exception is when I will feel targeted and accused, just like in this post. I think that maybe you like to refer to me as person in your post for some reason, but I don't like to put accusatory sentences in my answers
And again, I am not a troll, trolls don't like to put effort and patience in their replies. Just toy with the nerves of the community and have a good laugh.