P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Can you experience PAW like symptoms without being on a long streak? I struggle to get past a week yet I seem to have a lot of symptoms which some of you guys mention.

 

I went through one of the worst kinds of PAWS after discontinuing pharmaceutical psyche meds after 22 years of continuous use. It was a hell that I would never wish for my worst enemy—crippling anxiety and panick attacks lasting 18 hours at a time, bouts of suicidal depression that lasted for 3 years, anhedonia (the inability to experience pleasure) that lasted for weeks at a time, severe insomnia and horrifying nightmares, loss of appetite and zero energy and brain fog for months. It was the most challenging period of my entire life and lasted for almost 5 years and took a toll on my marriage that I am still healing today.

All that said, I now look back on that period with great gratitude and it’s also one of the greatest gifts I’ve ever received. When a human suffers in depths as deep and relentless as those, they begin to see themselves differently. They begin to see and DECIDE who they really are and what they are capable of. They learn to find what works and what doesn’t work as a matter of life or death.
I began to see how EVERY SINGLE CHOICE I made had an impact on my well being. In the beginning I felt resentful of this because it felt as though I had zero wiggle room in life, which translated to a loss of freedom—but as time went on I started to see my choices as my power. If I was going to get well then it was going to happen solely based on my choices.
Everything—diet, excercise, what I watched or read, the kinds of conversations I had, my sleep, my THINKING—all my choices influenced my experience of life.

In the beginning of that journey I really saw myself as a victim—I saw myself as someone who had something terrible happening TO them. This fed my anger and depression and anxiety and resentment.

As time moved on I started to take responsibility for myself. I STOPPED identifying as someone going through PAWS and STARTED identifying as someone who is responsible for their own sense of well-being. No one else, or any condition, or any set of circumstances was the reason I felt the way I did. It was ALL ME. This level of responsibility taking was what began to set me free. And today in March 2020 I am the most powerful I have ever been. I feel a sense of inner confidence that I never had before. My relationships with other have a depth now that was lacking before (because a human who has suffered and survived knows compassion and real self love and therefore has that to give away to others)

To be honest, I don’t come to this site very often and I rarely post. The reason being, although there are many valuable resources here and some really really wise and wonderful people, I see SO much complaining and lack of personal responsibility in so many of the posts that I find this environment largely toxic.
Yes PAWS exists, but to almost be ‘eager’ to label oneself with a ‘condition’ before even looking at yourself closely is selling out yourself and your own true power.

You are responsible for you.
If the above sentence EMPOWERS you, then you ‘get it’.
I that statement angers or depresses you, then try on the idea that you’ve been playing victim and/or not owning responsibility for who you are. And that’s ok. In fact it’s way MORE than ok—it’s an opportunity to tap into the amazing power that’s right there inside of you (and has been with you all along)—the power of knowing your true self. No one else made you who you are. Only YOU made you—through every single choice you’ve ever made, both mentally and physically. Start to see this fully and you’ll have
all the resources you’ll ever need to build your life exactly as you want it to be.

 

Such a great response to this thread and dripping with truth. I have at various points viewed giving up an addiction and going through paws as the heroes journey. I specifically reflect on the Buddha’s story. He started as a prince who was sheltered from the real world and encouraged to partake in all of life’s vices and live a life full of short term pleasures. When venturing out of his palace he came across an elderly person, a sick person, and a corpse at which point he was told that this is the fate that awaits everybody and that nobody could escape it. Then he saw a spiritual person meditating and it led him to leave his life of vices in search for the cause of suffering. He dove right into very restrictive practices, meditating for hours, becoming a renunciate, eating a grain of rice a day and drinking his urine. It was thought that by abusing the body one could learn to detach from it and get deeper understanding into suffering. After years of taking an extremist path and suffering he decided to eat a meal as he realized he could not gain any understanding if he were to starve. He was kicked out of the group of renunciates and decided he would sit under the bodhi tree until he solved his problem. It was then that he came up with the middle way and realized that life was neither about extreme vices (addiction) or extreme deprevation of all pleasures, it was about finding balance and meaning in every day life. I think I explained that roughly accurately and I see parallels with this story a lot in my own life, maybe others don’t but I do think it is a helpful way of looking at addiction and paws and putting into perspective that suffering is not new and everyone goes through it, some much more than others but no one gets a free pass and we must do our best to find a balance that makes our lives liveable and hopefully propels us forward in the direction we want to go.

 

While I agree with most of your post.. the context and premise I don't relate to.

I dont see anyone here with a victim mentality. I certainly don't have one. It's just cause and effect, you do a ton of drugs and porn for 10 years, and then you pay the debt in recovery.

What is everyones problem with calling a spade a spade; PAWS is real, it exists, it sucks... we come here to get advice and support while going through it.

People do so much projecting on here. Okay you might have had a victim mentality, yeah that sucks, and I'm glad you sorted it out. But doesn't really apply to me, I don't know what to say.

 

Yep, I also had PAWS symptoms before trying to quit, as well as after. It is possible, and I suspect that a lot of people have low-level PAWS symptoms caused by PMO who will never make the connection. At the end of the day there is only one way to stop those symptoms - you've just got to find a way to hang on for long enough to see the improvements.

 

So if it doesn’t apply to you, great. Then nothing really TO say. That being said, in matters such as these you CAN’T call a spade a spade because everyone’s journey is so personal and the biggest mistake I see so many people making is that they get all excited because they think that because they found something that works for them/or experience something in a certain way in that that suddenly they’ve discovered a) the solution for themselves/the REALITY of the situation
and B) the universal answer for OTHERS.
More often than not this is naive, unwise and potentially dangerous for vulnerable others seeking answers.

I see a lot of people here who are frustrated and in pain and complaining a lot about why it’s not easier for them—essentially complaining that reality isn’t BEING the way THEY want it to be rather than just the way it IS. They want the results, the ‘superpowers’, but they want it on their own terms rather than life’s terms.

My previous post was simply to share my experience of how surrender and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for EVERY aspect of my life was the path to freedom that I seeked.

Not sure why you would presume that I’m projecting anything here. One might ask you the same question...

 

I find a good way to fight paws is with a good natural nootropic stack... I am currently using l- theanine, lions mane mushrooms extract and ALCAR... each one of them promote focus, calmness and help the production of dopamine and serotonin they also aid against anxiety and depression along side many ocd traits

 

I'm sure yours and everyone else's intentions are good, and perhaps they help someone. For me they are neutral at best, and most of the time most other posts are negative.

I disagree - I think we can call a spade a spade with PAWS, just like if you were to be in a car accident and broke all the bones in your body it's probably going to be a shit time for a while, and your going to need a lot of support physically emotionally and mentally.

When you have PAWS and are looking at 18-24 month recovery, it's going to suck and your going to want it to stop. That's normal and natural. Coming to places like this to get support are so important.

I honestly wish we had 3 criteria to post her; 1) You have to have or have had PAWS, 2) It has to be supportive and encouraging 3) No unsolicited advice

 

Jesus christ, this guy man. Put a leash on him, christ!

You're like Emperor Palpatine draining the life outta everyone here. Quite clearly you're intolerant to a different opinion as well. There could be a multitude of reasons why your having them symptoms it's not a one size fits all. Also I remember you saying in a thread you had a cocaine addiction? Think that might not have anything to do with how you feel as well combined with porn binges and whatnot?

You keep spouting out people who are denying PAWS, who are the people that are denying it? I have it now from caffeine and nicotine. Do you not think its a combination of bad habits? Have you had any trauma in your life? None of us know your full story anyway. Everyone's journey with these symptoms that led us on here this forum is personal, all know that porn played a significant part in it hence why we are all on here.

Come back down to earth man.

 

Its great that you are giving the advice to take responsibility for your life and i totally agree. However this isnt just the magic solution to everyones problems, as each individual is at different stages in their lives.

Clearly at some point taking responsibility for your life started accelerating your improvements, which is great. You found a solution to your problems and think thats the solution to everyone elses too. A ‘Universal answer’ .

The guys on this thread arent complaining about their problems. They are smart people who are trying to find answers and support for what they are going through. You say you went through some struggle yourself, so you shouldn't really be getting angry here for making the same mistakes you did.

i agree with @humbleone in saying that only people who are going through something similar should be commenting on this thread. We are here to support each other, not hold a debate

 

But we are in a thread dedicated to porn PAWS... not a general mental health or life advice thread but PAWS caused by watching an excessive amount of pornography over a given amount of time. The idea is to help uncover and share information and support for those suffering from PAWS related to pornography

You're correct in your assessment, I'm completely intolerant to people who discount PAWS from pornography within a thread dedicated to help those who suffer from PAWS from pornography. Hope that clears any confusion

 

In your own case do you not think as you said in a previous thread of having a cocaine addiction would have contributed to your mental state and symtpoms?

 

Since 12 years old I've watched pornography. I used to sell it on burnt DVDs at school. As soon as I got to uni, I had napster and limewire downloading it and selling it to everyone else at uni, this was just as high speed internet was becoming available via DSL etc.

When I went to uni at 18, my stable daily porn consumption progressed into sex, which quickly became compulsive. I'd probably by age 31 slept with over 500 partners.

Around 26-7 whilst working with a close friend on a new business, and having a ton of stress as we fell out daily, I started partying a lot at the weekends with cocaine, but also upped my sex and porn consumption. This progressively got worse and more extreme, until the point every weekend Id stay awake from Fri-Sun, watch porn continuously and sleep with at least 1-2 partners. This lasted about 1 year before my brain was completely fried, and I started to get anxiety in weird situations, and not full PIED, but I came disinterest in sex with normal partners, and would masturbate constantly with a semi.

Following the above, I thought it was all down to cocaine, I still at this point didn't even think sex or porn addiction could be a thing. So I worked on stopping cocaine, which was somewhat tough, but possible, and within 12 months I'd mostly stopped.

But all the symptoms still remained.

By this point I had been meditating for a few years, and after stopping the cocaine, I now had a mild form of HOCD from my experience with PIED with hot girls, and I realised via meditation my mind was COMPLETELY obsessed with sex. I couldnt meditate 20 minutes without stopping to masturbate alot of the time.

The above drove me to google, in which point I found Gary Wilson, realised I was a massive porn and sex addict and had been for a long time, and that I needed to deal with it. This was August 2018. I was determined and had no doubt about stopping, it was inevitable now.

Over the next 4-5 months I racked up good streaks of 30 days or so several times. My last real relapse end of Feb 2019 I was in Dubai and slept with 3 girls, and after sleeping with one girl then watching porn my brain started throbbing and hasn't stopped since.

Since beginning of March 2019 I have been hardmode besides one relapse in August 2019 in which I watched porn had sex and did cocaine for 48 hrs.

When I started my first streak August 2018 I had all the acute withdrawal; terrible anxiety, insomnia etc, that came and went in 2-4 weeks, before I'd relapse again. When I finally got on my current streak in March 2019, when my brain had its dull ache, all symptoms locked in and have been consitent until this day.

Don't get me wrong I feel better now at 12 months then at 1 month, but my brain still aches and the anxiety and other symptoms are still here.

Im 100% sure and confident it's PAWS from porn/sex - my brain is addicted to dopamine it's that simple - and I will be fully healed in 18-24 months, which is another 6-9 months. There really is nothing else to it.

 

Yes, very well now mate. Very well indeed. Porn was playing a part no doubt. But ultimately there were other issues like a nicotine addiction and caffeine addiction also. Since I have cut both of them out my anxiety is gradually getting better week by week. Smoking and caffeine end up causing low dopamine as well which is basically every symptom of PAWS or even is PAWS. I have the porn, caffeine and nicotine in control now so everything is getting much better. I think one is a catalyst for the other so all three need to be in check for me.

Had a day the other day where I could feel all the feel good chemicals in my brain again, felt like a kid. This is from having as you guys know terrible symptoms for years. So when I hear humble one saying no one has it bad as him I have to laugh. My life has been on hold ever since excessive porn, caffeine and cigarettes came into the equation., I was unemployed for over two and a half years at one point and then another year and a bit recently. All because of symptoms. Now I'm finally getting back to reality, want to do things and get on track but it very much is in waves but the waves get less intense as they go on. And I've never felt as much progress beforehand as I have now whilst having a complete detox off porn, cigs and caffeine.

I'm not saying dismiss PAWS or anything. I'm just saying if your like me at two years with symptoms still you should take a long hard look and look at other angles, for real. I have dissected my own experience so many times throughout 8years of nofap and have now found what is working best for me.

Many more people like me on here who have said the same. God speed!

 

I wouldnt even know what to label it don to tell you the truth, paws, chronic stress, low dopamine, this that the other all I know is I had a very, very shit ten years with loads of hellish symptoms the same as saneagain, darksektur and all the other severe cases.

 

Oh and cognitively much better well. My memory is superb, I'm not thinking what to say, I dont stumble over words. My voice sounds much natural and not raspy/worn out. I can actually read stuff again and not feel like a brain dead spastic as well. I used to love reading as a kid buy lost that ability over the years. Now I'm engaged, fully, into a book for the most part. I'd have to read a paragraph about ten times to sink it in before.

Piece by piece, slowly but surely I am becoming sensitized to life again and I'm excited where it will go..

 

We are in full agreement - if someone got to 2 years hard mode and still had major PAWS symptoms, you'd advise them to look at other contributing factors. Considering that nearly everyone recovers from PAWS from most addictions within 2 years, probability dictates that as time lapses post 2 years, the chance it is related to the stopped addictive behaviours become less and less, and the chance there are other factors higher

But we are also in agreement, stopping porn should coincide with fixing up all compulsive behaviours from instagram to alcohol to caffeine. They are all just symptoms of an underlying problem.

 

We are in full agreement in my eyes then so I fully apologize for acting like a dick beforehand.

I want you and everyone else on this forum to succeed and get back on track and in the end however you beat this is going to be your own experience. We should all share our methods, whats working and whats not. I don't think out of any other forum I've seen PAWS/Withdrawals/symptoms tackled as much as here and that's a good thing as we have all pioneered this together.

Like Saneagain & BeanBuritto come to my mind straight away and I know there are more cases where wll over two years and still suffered. And yet Bean swore in the end that by taking Anti-Depressants helped his recovery and we will never know what happened to Saneagain as he hasn't logged on in a while, hopefully he finished his economics degree and is killing it!