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Is high speed internet porn part of the reason for the rise in incels?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by skaterdrew, May 27, 2020.

  1. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    I mean what exactly is an incel? Is it not just someone who really wants a sexual partner, a proper relationship, but feels like they can't and never will be able to get that?

    I don't really define my self as an incel, but I guess I do kind of somewhat feel that way.

    Recently I actually heard on the news about an incel terror attack or something like that? Pretty crazy.

    But I mean seriously what is causing this huge rise in guys thinking they're incels? I do believe high speed internet porn/artificial sexual stimulation could be a factor, potentially even the main cause.

    I mean guys literally having erectile dysfunction because of years of extreme PMO use. Guys having mental health issues because of years of extreme PMO use. Guys having next to no social skills with women because of years of extreme PMO use, because they simply haven't felt the need to go out and talk to women and chase after women because they have been getting their needs met from using porn for so many years.

    Something I do definitely believe is if we lived back in the times there was basically no artificial sexual stimulation or very little artificial sexual stimulation, I do believe men living in these times drive to go out and chase after women would of been generally much higher than what it is today. As they didn't have that level of sexual novelty. The men back then would of been seriously drawn to women, being pulled towards them by their instincts. Being more confident around them, building up confidence from years of being around them. As they wouldn't of been going back to their room to wank in front of a screen all day. They wouldn't of had that option.

    Something I do believe though, and I could be wrong about this. But I feel like a lot of women today don't give a lot of guys an easy time. I feel like a lot of women are generally very picky. The guy usually needs to have a lot going for him, being confident, maybe being successful ext. Women generally don't want an under confident guy. I feel like this is usually a big turn off for most women, and like I said I feel like this generation is actually full of more under confident men than previous generations. Simply because of the way a lot of guys these days live, through their sheltered lifestyle and heavy usage of high speed internet porn and artificial sexual stimulation ext.

    So I mean maybe this is naturally the woman's instinct, to be more attracted to confident men, as men through the ages probably naturally used to be much more confident, and if a lot of women these days aren't seeing this confidence then naturally they won't be as interested? I'm not really sure. I mean I do think a lot of women these days are very picky, especially women who are very attractive, who have a lot of options. But again is this more because women are naturally attracted to confidence? and these days there isn't on average as much confident guys as their used to be?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  2. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    It's impossible to know the extent that its contributed to the incel mindset, but I definitely think it plays a big role.
     
    Wugazi32 likes this.
  3. I think a child's upbringing also has a huge part to play in this. Kids not being properly socialised from a young age. They grow up and don't know how to handle themselves in social situations. Porn falls into the equation and just makes it a whole lot worse. Sex is still such a taboo subject in many families and children are not being educated well enough. Thanks for bringing this up, I would also like to know more about it as it plays such a large role in society. "Sex is a sacred privilege- both the cause of mans's downfall and a means to purification and oneness" Edgar Cayce
     
  4. g2stop

    g2stop Fapstronaut

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    I agree with everything you say, I think this is exactly what has happened

     
    Asgardian36 likes this.
  5. Asgardian36

    Asgardian36 Fapstronaut

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    i agree 100%....
    PMO is having its toll on people. Expect more and more of such events. It is upto us to speak in support of NoFap.

    Yes, women these days are being very picky! They need to give average joe a chance! Like peter jordanson says top teir men get most of the pussy....bottom feeders fight wars for bread crumbs....you get the idea
     
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  6. fredisthebes

    fredisthebes Fapstronaut

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    It's definitely a factor.

    We have a generation of teenagers that know an extraordinary amount about sex - including the most unusual practices - and have even developed niche and depraved fetishes, but know absolutely nothing about relationships.
    To translate any of this fantasy life into reality you must learn about the dynamics of male/female relationships - not just seduction, either. Romance, playfulness. How to make a girl feel listened to and respected. How to assert your needs and desires without being pathetic and needy. This stuff is hard, and the best (only?) way to learn is to give it a go.
    Good news is, it's easier than ever to get a date - pick your favourite snaps and get onto a dating app. In the olden days I had to hang around awful nightclubs and try and chat girls up. Yeah, no shit the odds are stacked against you, but it's no different from how it always was. Get out there and get some numbers and go on some dates. And it's not a failure and a waste of time if she doesn't have sex with you - you are learning how to romance a girl, how to read signs, how to form relationships. It's always a 'relationship', even if it only lasts one night/weekend/holiday :) so learn how to 'relate' to girls.

    Internet porn is making a lot of guys not want to bother any more. It's a shame.
     
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  7. recoome

    recoome Fapstronaut

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    Random Sex = fast food
    Good Relationship = healthy diet

    Unfortunately people are made to believe fast food is better than healthy diet. TV and movies play a huge role. Not that it's the job of TV and movies to 'guide' the society. The job to guide their children is of parents who, unfortunately, are also engrossed in TV and movies.
     
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  8. Free your mind

    Free your mind Fapstronaut

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    I agree with every word you wrote.
     
  9. Batty Belfry

    Batty Belfry Fapstronaut

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    I think consistent PMO does place males into this incel camp. Another part of it is mindset; if you think you are an incel, you most likely act like an incel or become one. The problem can be twofold, with PMO and the mindset cycling back and forth. The PMO has to be cut out of the male rhetoric and practice, none of it translates naturally in reality. During such time, one's thoughts have to be good thoughts, so that one's actions become good actions.

    If we are drawing straws, females get the better draw, but arguably only slightly. Yes, they can reject you for incompatibility and any other reasons they find reasonable whether or not a male is incel. A male can also reject any women, but he has more to show for if he has withstood the temptation of PMO. Self-control, selflessness, and self-forming (individually-tailored and better) habits, in my opinion, combat this incel state of mind and physical circumstance.

    Know yourself before you get to know others; it is easy to reward yourself with a woman you will never meet on a screen, but that is not a reward, it is the illusion of a reward, which is this: you get to do it again. The real reward is doing nothing, turning it off, and bettering yourself for yourself and eventually for others.
     
  10. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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    I am a woman myself and I really need to answer to this. You are all saying that women have too high standards nowadays but you are talking about what kind of women? You see the problem with all the porn, all the Instagram models and just all the beautiful people you even see in music videos and netflix is that we get used to a certain beauty of women. Men nowadays are used to see lots of 10’s in a day on a screen but this isn’t reality. Unless you are a 10 yourself as a guy, you should still realize that the 10’s you see on your screens are 1) rare and 2) that a woman who looks that way probably has tons of other guys to choose from. I mean tell me, if you would be a guy and you would have tons of guys everyday sending you a message, wouldn’t you choose the most handsome girl too?
    I feel like the problem is more that guys are just not interested nor satisfied anymore with an average looking girl. It is not that women have too high standard nowadays, it is more that men only go after women who are out of their league because they get desensitized with all the women on their screen. Average joe needs to find an average Emma, isn’t this logic?

    Our perceptions of beauty are skewed... We all want the most beautiful women or most handsome men nowadays... Even women see a lot more handsome men because of media than 50 years ago. But we shouldn’t forget to be realistic. That’s the danger of living on the internet. The people on your screens don’t represent reality. Only a small percentage of people looks like that and every man wants that top percentage.

    Apart from that, as a women who have had sex plenty of times... (and I model btw so I have above average looks)
    I can tell you because I have had so much sex, I am just turned off by how men are wired nowadays... They expect you to do all these degrading acts which might be normal in porn but it is not how ‘normal sex’ should be. A lot of them have sexual dysfunctions... And I think in general women also are not as keen to have sex in these days because in the end having sex is more about worrying about how your body looks and if it measures up to all the fantasy women a man already has seen and if she performs well than anything else. Men are used to too much! It doesn’t make a woman feel beautiful and sexy anymore... and in the end that is what all women want.. they want to feel desired and sexy when a man is having sex with them. Porn ruins that, because they see plenty of naked 10’s on their screen so they aren’t impressed anymore... It destroys a woman’s self-confidence. One tip: most women are insecure nowadays. The key to getting a woman is to work on that insecurity of her. If you can make her feel confident, then you have won.
    That is the biggest tip I can give you guys but I just don’t know if most men nowadays can be sincere in that because admit it: most real life girls can never measure up to fantasy women. That’s why men need to watch less so they can see the beauty of a real life naked women. You can’t fake being impressed by that. A woman senses these things.
     
  11. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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  12. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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    In short as a woman: knowing that men are watching so much porn nowadays just decreases my interest in having sex with these men... It’s not fun to have sex with men who get their education from porn and who are incredibly desensitized and also not easily impressed too. And men who expect you to do degrading stuff because it is ‘normal’ and are next to that selfish like crazy.
    I don’t know how to make sure some sentences are hidden so that it doesn’t trigger anyone but I don’t even like to perform oral anymore because of a guy that was surprised why I could only do it this deep... And next to that a lot of guys don’t think of the pleasure of the women because when they PMO too much they only have to think of themselves and probably watch videos where the pleasure is only focused on the male... It is a selfish act in the end...
     
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  13. This^^

    Everything u just said is the reason why I am wanting to overcome PMO. How selfish would it be for me getting into a relationship with a woman whilst addicted to porn. I would basically be cheating on her. One of my motives is to detox my brain and soul. To empty my mind and appreciate women for who and what they are: Being supportive, nurturance, emotional, affectionate, gentleness etc.

    I mean, how would I feel if my partner was addicted to P? For starters I would think that my 'package' is not enough for her, thereby I would experience low self esteem and confidence. What is to say women don't react in the same way?
     
  14. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    At a certain point you might say it's just a byproduct of the information age. Like you said "part" of the reason so qualifying it further is it because we have too much information? Of course even with news etc. we don't have to consume it all day in a compulsive way. There's access to information and the interpretation of information, which is of course what a question like this seeks and I think the interpretation part is where we're lacking. A lot of people seem to swallow the interpretation they have predefined for you wholesale instead of forming their own opinion - so it goes way beyond our sex lives for that matter.

    When I read you say "sheltered lifestyle" I couldn't help but think shelter-in-place. The truth is before social distancing as a physical proximity there was already social distancing without it, same with being sheltered and shelter-in-place. The online informational equivalent to that is things like the echo chamber. There's a distance here because anything social is supposed to be RELATIONAL, a dialogue, and when it's just a superficial agreement party (I take it as a bad/sad sign in "conversation" when people have to say "I agree" without further details) and preaching to the choir there is no thinking. In that sense I think we are fairly healthy in this online community in that there are different perspectives on the reboot process and we try different things, although as far as how much people listen to other perspectives that might be another story.
     
  15. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    BTW what some might see as triggers or p-Sub, (though I think the latter should be dependent on your intention) like in an advertisement I now automatically remind myself this is someone trying to sell something, and it may have nothing to do with the model in question. So the way I frame it has nothing to do with sexual attraction, it DOES have to do with recognizing there are people on the other side somewhere trying to push our buttons and not allowing that to infiltrate the mind psychologically. I think this is way better than wholesale avoidance if you can implement/remember it.
     
  16. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    I actually think what also happens a lot these days though is a lot of women who are on social media and these dating sites might not actually be a 10 in looks. But because of how good their images look on these sites and the amount of guys messaging them on these sites it makes them think that they're actually a 10 in looks. So this is another reason that causes them to become very picky and reject a lot of guys. The male is much more likely to be the seeker than the female. Meaning the male is more likely to do the chasing. So any woman who is even slightly attractive on a dating site or even social media is going to get tons of messages and likes ext. I think there is meant to be something like 20 guys to every one female on a dating site.

    I have done a bit of reading in to this. The two things that mainly got my attention were, guys are not usually as picky as women, and women are much more picky than what they used to be.

    I honestly believe a lot of women a long time ago would of been less picky for a handful of reasons. I think one reason is a lot of women back then wouldn't of realized how attractive they were. They probably didn't realize they could of had their pick of tons of guys, and tons of guys would of loved a chance with them. I actually believe this is likely the main reason a lot of women back then would of been less picky and would of settled with a guy much easier. A lot of women back then wouldn't of been sure of them self the same as they're today, and they wouldn't of realized just how attractive they were, and that they could of had their pick of loads of guys. Now a days a lot of women realize how attractive they're. They realize they can have their pick of tons of guys. I don't feel like this is good situation for a lot of guys if I am being honest with you. Unless your a really attractive, confident, successful guy ext.

    I think a lot of women would of settled for their average Joe much easier and much quicker a long time ago than what they do today. But maybe guys back then would of also settled much easier and much quicker for their average Emma back then to.

    But I believe these days a lot of guys aren't even getting the chance with average Emma, because average Emma doesn't want average Joe, because average Emma realizes she has her pick of tons of guys. I think this is what is happening.

    From what I have read guys overall seem to be much less picky than women, and women have overall become much more picky than what they used to be.

    I believe the main reasons women have become much more picky than what they used to be is because they have much more choice of guys than what they used to, and they either realize more these days how attractive they actually are, or a lot of women think they're much more attractive than what they actually are. Because even women that are not a 10 on dating sites, on social media sites still get never ending comments and likes from countless amount of guys. So this actually causes them to think they're a 10 and makes them much more picky.
     
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  17. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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    I love the fact that you realize these things, because a lot of guys don't with support of mainstream media... Actually you can't blame men nowadays, they are just a product of our society. I just wished a lot more guys would wake up...

    A lot of people say porn isn't cheating because you just see it on a screen and you are not physically close with that person so men are allowed to do that. However, I think that is a lame excuse. A lot of men would never be able to fuck the women they see on the screen and they would never have the chance to be physical with them. If hot women were as available as porn was, they would also cheat that way if nobody would see it.

    And obviously the psychological effects it has and the way you start to view your partner and women. It is not healthy… I have been there.. I have been with a partner who was addicted to porn. Most traumatizing experience ever. I felt like he cheated with multiple women everyday while rejecting me. I am glad I moved on.
    It would have been different if he realized he had a problem but he never said he wanted to change so I left. Best decision!
    That is why I respect the people on this platform because you guys at least try to work on it
     
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  18. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Actually I don't know if this is true, two pieces of evidence: PUA stuff seems to work to an extent, and since that is psychological/mental not physical (which I don't agree with but for the purpose of this discussion just to point out it isn't dependent on looks/physicality alone) and body dysmorphic disorder, which "a lot" of women have. BDD has been found to have an actual neurological basis, but regardless because it is not so much about the physical as the perception of the physical. Now you might interpret that as it has to be a very high standard, after all girls who have that issue sometimes feel like they are not good looking enough even though they are already very pretty, but I don't know that we can assume it works one way like that. I briefly saw a girl who apparently has that as a diagnosis, even if she didn't have her brain scanned to prove it and I remember we were having lunch and asked me off handedly "you ever feel like peoples faces just look wrong" or something like that, and quickly said "not you." Point is we don't know what kind of distortion that would have, and presumably she liked me enough because I was kind and said positive encouraging things that could influence her psychological perception of me and thus influence her visual perception.
     
  19. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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    Hmm.. To be honest, the girls in my environment that are active on social media are in general more pretty than average and the average looking girls and under that, they barely post.
    This might also create a bias I think.
    But ofcourse it is true that girls have more luck on dating sites. A lot of men just want sex so I have heard they sometimes swipe everyone that has a vagina to the right.

    I don't know if girls realize more that they are attractive these days?
    Don't forget we as women also see a lot of perfection on social media and most women know they can't measure up (at least the majority of women).
    We are more and more confronted with perfection which wasn't there as much 50 years ago.
    50 years ago we probably only saw the people who lived in our neighbourhood and the prettiest girl there was our reference for beauty.
    Now even the prettiest girl from a neighbourhood can look average in comparison the world's most beautiful women on the internet who has used tons of plastic surgery, make up and photoshop to look that way on a picture..

    I think maybe men should start approaching women in real life more. You Always get rejected but that is a normal process in life and unfortunately a lot of people nowadays are scared of that. Rejection only makes you stronger. :)
    I even approach men myself as a woman lol.
    Because of porn people lose their social abilities and drive to actually do effort for women. I think men just don't want to do too much effort when there are tons of virtual women out there to get their needs met.
    Maybe that's the problem, men just don't learn to court anymore.

    By the way, my brother is quite handsome and smart and when he was single he used to be able to get the hottest girls from school. He is just very social and he knows how to talk to women combined with good looks.
    BUT because he is social, he also has a lot of male friends and even my brother says that so many of his friends who look average or below that, only want and try with the 'model' types. They don't want to settle for anything less and that's the reason a lot of these guys end up being single...
    I really think media and porn has to do with it. You also see a lot of ugly guys with beautiful girls in porn (but porn is fake and these women get paid for it) and maybe that's why a lot of men get wrong ideas?
    I think a lot more people need to become more realistic and live more in a real world instead of a virtual world and that that the reason is that a lot of people never have learned how to talk to women.

    But I won't deny that women also might have changed. I am just seeing it from my perspective. :)

    Btw: I don't want to offend anyone here, I just want to give different perspectives that perhaps brains that are brainwashed by porn might not have. :)
     
  20. vanessa123

    vanessa123 Fapstronaut

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    Yes it is very prevalent these days. I was scared to have sex in general because of body issues. And probably also caused by porn use myself as a girl because I would look at all these women and they didn't look like me. I am rather petite and no big boobs/big butts or anything. I thought no men would like me because I didn't have all these curves and that they would be used to seeing other type of women.

    I actually think most women these days have low self esteem. Only a small beautiful part might get really arrogant and even then I have met a lot of beautiful women who were still insecure.
     

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