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Romance Author Woes

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Deleted Account, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Wave Surfer 2.0

    Wave Surfer 2.0 New Fapstronaut

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    That's probably for the best. I understand making a post about personally not liking something. I understand making a post about people trying to silence opinions that are different than their own. But I don't understand making a post about criticising what other people like or do. So hopefully OP can clarify.
     
  2. Uh... no. I didn't say I hate people's "right" to read erotica. I said I hate that it exists. Just as I hate that porn exists. People have every right to read whatever they want, or watch whatever they want. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
     
  3. Yeah, I agree. That's why I deleted Twitter yesterday. The only social media I still have is Facebook, because I actually have writer groups on there that are helpful and I use all the time as a resource, otherwise I would probably delete Facebook too. But I limited my friends list and who I follow, so that my homepage will just be mostly writing group posts instead of scrolling through tons of family and friend updates.
     
    Chris_Cactusblossom likes this.
  4. First, how am I taking anything away from anyone by saying I don't like something? That's not what I'm doing at all.

    And secondly, it's my opinion. Your opinion is that it's fine to read that stuff. My opinion is that it's harmful and damaging and immoral, so I don't like it.

    You seem to be annoyed that I'm "taking away people's rights," which I'm not even doing at all, and yet you're doing the same thing I'm doing, by voicing your opinion and disagreement. All I did was say I don't like something.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
  5. I am, and I have every right to do that. It's called an opinion. I think porn is completely immoral and against God, and I don't like that our culture has embraced it as being totally fine.

    Let's take something you probably consider immoral. How would you feel if our culture decided to embrace murder as being completely fine and celebrated? Obviously you would say you don't like it. I don't get what your problem is with me voicing an opinion. I'm not taking away anyone's rights. Literally nothing is going to happen because some rando chick on the internet says they don't like that people celebrate erotica. Calm down.

    It's really ridiculous to criticize me for saying that I hate that people are celebrating something and participating in something that has absolutely ruined so much of so many people's lives. I care about people, so yes, I hate that our culture is lying to people and sending them the message that reading erotica all the time is perfectly healthy and won't hurt them at all. It's not true. It's not healthy, and it has been harmful to so many people. This is literally the equivalent of me saying I hate that people celebrate porn and think it's totally great and fine to watch. It's not great and fine. It's harmful, and I've seen that with my own eyes more times than I can count.

    So yes, I hate that people are probably unknowingly harming themselves. I don't see how it makes me a bad person to make such a statement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
  6. Nice misquote.
     
  7. As far as it being a relapse, I'm not sure whether or not it would be. I suppose it depends on how you feel when you're writing it. Are you getting turned on? Is that part of why you write it, to feel that rush of arousal? If so, I would say it is a relapse and you should avoid it. There are plenty of other ways to enjoy creativity and writing without writing that kind of stuff.

    But in addition to this, I would urge you to think about people who are addicted to written porn. That might not be your situation, but it has been mine, and many others. So you should consider how you feel about creating something that could be harming people. It's your decision, of course, but I would recommend you ask yourself if you would feel comfortable producing pornography, knowing how much it has harmed you and can harm others, and treat that kind of writing in the same way. Because honestly, it is the same thing. Our culture thinks of it differently for some reason, but it really isn't much different as far as the damaging effects we are all here for. I've met tons of women, myself included, who have been addicted to those kinds of stories even more than actual porn, and I would say reading that stuff has damaged my brain more than visual porn has.

    Just some things to consider. And always remember that you can still write and be creative without that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
    ShogunGeneral likes this.
  8. I totallyyyy feel what you're saying here. I mean of course I do, as someone who has read a ton of erotica (not proudly) and who writes romance. It's hard to draw the line when I get to an intimate scene. I want to go all out and make the reader feel everything, and I know that's my strong suit as a writer, so I could probably do a pretty great job of it. But I don't want to create something that can be harmful to people, especially when it's been harmful to me for many years. That would feel pretty hypocritical to me.

    Also, honestly, I've come to appreciate the fact that when you aren't getting deep into the whole sexual experience, you have to find other ways to evoke those emotions. It's more challenging. I don't want to offend anyone who writes erotica, but I have quite a but if experience as a reader and a writer, and it's much easier to get people emotionally invested in something erotic. You don't even really need to be a good writer (not saying that there aren't any good writers writing erotica, because there certainly are). I'm just saying, I think it's harder to get people feeling something without getting them turned on by certain graphic words or statements. So if you can accomplish that without those words, I think you'll be an even better writer. It's like an added challenge, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's a good way to flex your writing muscles and try something different.
     
  9. Yep! And I was criticizing people for something they like. Because the something they like is harmful and immoral, so I don't think they should be celebrating it. I like erotica too, but I don't celebrate that fact. I try not to look at it, because I know it's wrong. Just like I wouldn't what people celebrating kicking puppies, even if it's what they love to do for fun. Not everything people like to do for entertainment is good or right, and I'm allowed to say I don't agree with it.

    Obviously you disagree with me. That's fine. But it's silly to act like it's somehow wrong of me to voice an opinion or criticism of something someone likes, when that something is harmful. You would say the same thing, if you agreed it was harmful. If you've ever even thought "I wish people didn't like _____, because it's really bad for them," then you've done exactly the same thing I just did.

    Here's another one: I wish people wouldn't celebrate eating junk food all day long and not exercising. That may be what they love to do, but I'm criticizing it, because it's not healthy.

    Everyone in the world has opinions like this. And there is a HUGE difference between posting something like this here, and picking on someone directly for liking erotica.

    I'm friends with several authors who write erotica. I've done video streams with them where we write together, and they talk about what they're writing and we have a good time. And I've never once told them they shouldn't be writing what they're writing. When asked, I say that I don't read erotica. That's it. Just so they know that if I don't buy their books, it's not anything against them, it's just not my genre of preference.

    What I posted here is completely different than what you're acting like I'm doing. You're acting like I'm out here shaming people and telling them what to do and trying to take away people's rights, and quite frankly, it's a ridiculous over dramatization of what I said.

    I'm honestly really sick of people who act like you're a terrible person for saying you think something that someone else likes is bad and they shouldn't like it. Literally everyone has things they would say that about. What if you have a friend who loves going out and getting blackout drunk every night? Are you gonna say "well, that's his right and he enjoys it, so I'm just glad he's happy." If you said that, that would make you a terrible friend. What you SHOULD do is say hey friend, I know this might be enjoyable to you, but it's also really harmful, so i wish you wouldn't do it.

    That's all I'm saying, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that. And if anyone pretends there is nothing in the world they would say that about and they totally respect everyone's right to do whatever they want as long as they're having fun, they're lying to themselves. You shouldn't respect someone's right to do whatever they want for fun if the thing they're doing for fun is hurting them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
  10. For the most part yes, this was obviously the main point of my post. But I'm not going to pretend that I don't think it's wrong for people to read erotica. I do. I don't go around telling them that and shaming them and trying to "take away their rights" to read whatever they want to read. But I'm not going to say that I'm not critical of people reading erotica, at least privately in my own mind. I do think it's wrong, and I wish people wouldn't do it.

    But you are correct that that obviously wasn't at all the point of what I posted, and has been blown wayyy out of proportion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
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  11. Wave Surfer 2.0

    Wave Surfer 2.0 New Fapstronaut

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    @Castielle Sorry for unintentionally blowing things out of proportion. I agree, by voicing an opinion you're not taking away anyone's rights, I sounded a bit too dramatic there. You keep making analogies to kicking puppies and murdering people. Those behaviors affect other living beings. A murderer affects other, innocent people with his behavior. I don't see how someone writing erotica for people who enjoy reading it affects you? I personally think sex without love is immoral. But I don't see the point of investing my precious energy into what other people are doing with their own life if it doesn't affect me. If someone gets enjoyment out of it and isn't hurting anyone, why should I care? Of course you have every right to have and express your opinion, I don't have a problem with that at all, despite it maybe sounding that way. I was simply questioning the purpose of doing it. But you don't owe me an explanation either. I was just voicing out my confusion.

    What? A paraphrase and a quote is not the same.

    Also, I am calm. :emoji_smile:
     
  12. It doesn't, and I never said it did. I care about other people too, not just myself. Therefore I care when people are doing something that might harm themselves.

    Lol but you do see the point in investing your precious time and and energy into arguing on my thread about how I shouldn't waste my precious time and energy... gotcha. Why bother saying anything at all then? You've been arguing back and forth about how I shouldn't criticize things people like. How does that effect you? And if it doesn't, then why aren't you taking your own advice by not wasting your time and energy on something that doesn't effect you? Everybody discusses things that don't directly effect them, all the time, including you, right now. What you just said is a giant contradiction to everything else you've said in this thread. You're literally doing exactly what you just claimed you don't do.

    It IS hurting someone. That's the entire point. Porn hurts people. Sin hurts people. And I care about that. And I won't apologize for caring about people hurting themselves, especially unknowingly because they have been taught that something that's harmful is actually good for them. That's really sad, and I wish it wasn't the case.

    It wasn't a good paraphrase. It completely changed what I said.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2020
  13. And thank you
     
  14. ShogunGeneral

    ShogunGeneral Fapstronaut

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    Hey thanks for the reply... I see you have put a lot of thought into it. I definitely do get an arousal so yes you are correct on that aspect. I will say that to your second point as far as my responsibility to readers I was very conciseness when I wrote my material to write it with a high amount of empathy especially toward my female characters in the stories. I actually looked at as a way of doing good work that I consciously tried to make the stories as much about love and with a positive look towards interpersonal relationships as possible. WHen I posted I let it be known that anyone who was interested in seeing violence or aggression toward women (or themselves) should avoid my worl. I really felt a lot of love and investment in my characters and saw them as extensions of myself. To put it in short, I realized what an ugly world I was working but in some ways saw myself as an agent of change thinking 'well... while these people are consuming this maybe I can at least create something that is beautiful and well write and redeeming... maybe I can be a kind of light for good in this space...' but at the same time I could just have been deluding myself as well. I don't think there is an easy answer here.
     
  15. I get what you're saying, but I think you've missed the point of what I was getting at. It's not about whether or not your porn is well written. It's that it's still porn.

    I've read a ton of erotica, some of it offensive and and violent and some of it sweet and romantic. The sweet and romantic stuff was still terrible for me, and still damaging. It's not about whether or not the stories are well written, it's the fact that if your stories are entirely centered around graphic sex and fetishes, you are producing porn. And as someone who is on a site for porn addiction, I assume you know how damaging porn can be to people. So that's something you need to consider.
     
  16. Wave Surfer 2.0

    Wave Surfer 2.0 New Fapstronaut

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    Well if you're talking from a religious standpoint, then that's different. I am not religious so I guess that's the answer I was looking for. Otherwise it makes no sense to me to decide for other people what is bad for them. If they choose to do something that makes them happy, then I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm not arguing, I was wanting to understand another person's viewpoint out of personal interest, because it is connected my own viewpoint. That's not the same, but feel free to disagree.
     
  17. Well it's not JUST about religion. I mean, have you not read the science about porn addiction being harmful? I would think as someone who has been here for a long time, you would agree that porn is harmful.

    And I just don't believe you actually mean it when you say this:

    So if someone is getting high on heroin every day, going in and out of the hospital, you wouldn't say it makes sense to say that's bad for them? It makes them happy, and it doesn't effect you, so by your logic, you would have to be fine with them celebrating it, and you shouldn't say anything negative about it, because it makes them happy and it doesn't effect you.

    The difference in our views isn't that you don't think it's right to tell people what is bad for them if they're doing something that makes them happy. The difference is just that you don't think reading erotica is one of those things. If we were talking about someone cutting themselves, or starving themselves because they want to look like Jack Skellington, I doubt you would remain consistent in anything you've said about letting people do what makes them happy if it doesn't harm others and doesn't effect you, and not criticizing their behavior or telling them what's bad for them.

    It's fine if you don't agree that reading erotica is bad for people. But I just don't think your views about not criticizing what makes people happy or telling them it's bad for them are consistent. Or at least I highly doubt they would remain consistent in other situations.
     
  18. Wave Surfer 2.0

    Wave Surfer 2.0 New Fapstronaut

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    I think you answered your own question there that I would have different opinion in other situations. Heroin is not porn. Billions of people in the world watch porn without becoming addicted to it. Although my argument was about written porn, because I do think other forms of porn can harm innocent people if they are forced to do it, for example. But watching/reading sexual images is not comparable to mind and body altering drugs. Shopping or eating food can become dangerous addictions. But I don't think we can tell people who enjoy going shopping and eating food are harming themselves if they don't develop addictions.
     
  19. I just don't see how you can say you don't think it's right to tell other people something is bad for them if it's making them happy, then. That's not true. You're fine with telling people things that make them happy are bad for them. You just aren't fine with me doing it in regards to erotica. Which is fine, but just say that then.
     
  20. Wave Surfer 2.0

    Wave Surfer 2.0 New Fapstronaut

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    Because for me, having an addiction equals not being happy and healthy. It's true that some people are in denial about that and would still claim they are happy despite harming themselves, but that's what addiction does. It limits the brain's ability to prioritise long-term happiness over short-time happiness from the dopamine hit. But if people are not addicted and in a healthy state of mind, I think they are capable to decide for themselves what makes them happy and what hurts them.
     

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