What is your opinion about masturbation (without porn)?

I still don't get. How exactly do you get detached? Is it socially, emotionally or sexually detachment?
And one more thing, please consider that when I said It's ok to masturbate without watching porn, I meant only masturbating when your sexual tension builds up and you can't control the urge. To give it a value, take it like 3-4 times a month. Nothing more.

 

All three. When I masturbate I become more anti-social, emotionally detached from others (it impacts my ability to feel empathy), and sexually I become disinterested in others.

Please consider I only gave my views about masturbation according to my own personal experience. I made it pretty obvious I was only relating to myself with “I feel” and “for me” language. Also, are you some type of masturbation specialist? How did you come up with the universal treatment of 3-4 times per month?

 

You will keep wondering until you hit rock bottom then you will get it. Anything causes sexual indulgence without a real life partner is harmful and wrong.

 

These anti social and all that are most probably side effects that you masturbate too much to feel that dopamine rush or short term high. And later you experience withrawal symptoms which detaches you from people. In simple words, masturbating more than 3-4 times a month is just addiction. And addiction always has it's side effects and withrawal symptoms.
I'm not a expert but I learned that from many professionals and some monks too. I'm just forwarding their experience and also my own

 

I felt these issues when I was young and masturbating less than 3-4 times a month so, again, just forwarding my own experiences. I’m sorry if that brings some chaos into your “perfect amount of masturbation” theory. We’re all different, something to think about when giving out masturbation prescriptions, lol.

 

Well to be honest. This is not my experience. This is just what I was told was right. Maybe I am wrong. But the major point why I thought that masturbating not so frequently is ok because what else are we supposed to do then? Do we not masturbate at all if we are unable to have sex? What am I going to do when that sexual tension will build up?

 

Not sure whom you are talking about. But I'm not an addict. I'm already 50 days on NoFap

 

Yup. I'm on Hardmode NoFap. No masturbation, No porn nothing. I never said I masturbate but I will definitely do once my streak is completed. And same way I told (3-4 times a month)

 

Jeezus, how old are you? You keep telling me to "stop doing" things. I can do whatever I want, I am an adult and so are you, if you enjoy giving people orders, then you should become a dictator or kindergarten teacher

That's not what I meant. I am talking about having sex for procreation. You need another human being to reproduce. You cannot reproduce with your hand or a mental/visual image of a mate. The natural function of sex is reproduction. Therefore, having sex with your own hand aka masturbation is unnatural. I honestly didn't think this was such a hard concept to grasp. Just because animals do something it means it's natural? What kind of logic is that? Some animals happen to eat or kill their offspring, that sort of behaviour is definitely not fulfilling the biological function of making the species survive.

Where did I use nature as moral predicator? If you would can kindly point out to me where I said masturbating is immoral/wrong because it's unnatural, I would appreciate that, otherwise, like False promise said, you're just looking incredibly stupid and ridiculous trying to rhetorically inflate baseless arguments now apparently I have to repeat what I said because you don't seem to understand: what I said is that something that is unnatural will have negative effects on your physical/mental health because of our naturally programmed (hopefully you won't feel offended by this term) biological functions. Eating processed foods is unnatural and therefore unhealthy. Yes, your body might handle it every once in a while without noticeable negative effects, but the more you do it, the more you realize how these negative effects add up to making you feel noticeably bad. Food is a perfect analogy, because it is 100% equally a biologically programmed need like sex is.

It's NOT about saving your sperm for sex, never ever said that. It's about not wiring your brain to an unnatural behavior. Our brain chemistry has a biological purpose. Your brain releases dopamine when you are anticipating eating food because you are supposed to survive. If your brain released dopamine when you would anticipate eating a piece of paper, you would die. Because a piece of paper has no nutritional value. You brain chemistry makes you release dopamine when you anticipate sexual activity because you are supposed to continue the human race with another HUMAN, not your own hand or a computer/phone screen. We cannot function properly biologically if we distort our brain chemistry by wiring it to unnatural behavior, the more we do it, the more these effects will become apparent, as every user on NoFap can confirm.

First of all, English is not my native language. Second of all, I did a google search with the terms "ncbi" "human body was designed", got 11.900 results. But I'm sure the National Center for Biotechnology Information's database made a mistake and clearly the term is religiously charged.

 

I don’t know what you’re suppose to do. I know that, for me, every itch doesn’t need to be scratched. I’m not gonna die from sexual tension nor am I gonna die from bearing some discomfort.

 

Yes, I am going to deny that, especially coming from a porn addict

 

I have to disagree with you here, because fantasies are not different from porn in the sense that they are artificial stimuli. The need and desire for sex is by nature the need and desire for physical intimacy. Sex is an act of human connection. If you keep being intimate with yourself and the mental image of a woman, you will keep conditioning your brain to be aroused by artificial cues rather than real life physical interaction with a woman. It's not as bad as porn, but still not good. It conditions you to think that sex is about you and your penis. It conditions you to use a woman's appearance/body as if she was merely an object, for your own sexual pleasure. When nature has obviously designed it to connect to another person, not to a picture/video or a fleshlight or your own hand.

 

That is one function of sex. It is not the only function.

This is a poorly formed conclusion for several reasons. Firstly it is a non-sequitur because it has nothing to do with your premise (which is faulty in its own right, as I pointed out above). One does not have "sex" with their hand in the hope of reproducing. And you are conflating sex with masturbation, which are two very distinct activities with very different functions. The functions of masturbation and sex do not correspond one-to-one. One function of both sex AND masturbation, however, is to induce pleasure, something which you have completely denied. The overarching issue here is that this whole argument is fallacious because it is an appeal to nature. Nothing about an action being "natural" or "unnatural" makes it right or wrong. Furthermore, you are not even correct in your assumption that masturbation is unnatural, because it is. Humans, other primates, dogs, and plenty of other animals do in fact masturbate without any instruction or influence. You need to throw away this argument or reconcile it with the facts about reality which you are in denial of.

That's fine if you aren't making a moral argument. An appeal to nature fallacy is still invalid even when you are constructing a utilitarian argument from it. Because something is unnatural does not imply that it is healthy or unhealthy. So now I've corrected my response.

This is wrong, and I can provide a counterexample to show why: wearing clothes is unnatural, so are various medical treatments that we don't have natural access to. These things all contribute positively to our health. So to say that something is unnatural and therefore unhealthy is false.

First of all, sex is not a need, in the sense that it is required for individual survival. If you want to argue that it is a need for the survival of the species, then fine. Secondly, this is cherrypicking. Using one example of something that is unnatural and unhealthy does not prove that unnatural implies unhealthy. See my counterexample above. Thirdly, how do you even define "healthy" in this context? If I am starving to death, then eating processed foods will certainly be more healthy than eating nothing.

So are you saying that if people masturbate, they won't know that they're supposed to have sex with other people? And now I see you're trying to sneak quantity into the discussion. I'm asking you to provide a reason why masturbating is unhealthy at all, not why doing it excessively is unhealthy.

Also, you said "If your brain released dopamine when you would anticipate eating a piece of paper, you would die." This is not true. You can still get a dopamine reward from eating paper AND eating healthy foods. See the difference? These are not mutually exclusive activities. You can enjoy masturbation AND sex. And EVEN IF you masturbate so much that you don't want to have sex with anyone, how is that unhealthy? I fail to see the connection between sexual desire and health.

I'm just asking you to use the term "function" because it is less ambiguous. If we don't agree to use the same definitions then we will not be able to respond appropriately to each other's arguments.

What makes you think that I'm a porn addict?

 

For me, I believe it as waste that I ain't nutting to something that is "worthwhile" and it kind of serves as a good motivator to cut PMO out because porn and masturbation come as a unit. Cut the former out and the latter dies. Even on the contrary, it is dangerous on all levels to my progress if I have the latter cut out but the former still going because it will compound psychologically on you and make you return to your old ways.

 

How I detailed it was how it went for me atleast. I have been trying to kick this bloody addiction since the 6th grade now and I am heading into 12th. Before 6th, I watched porn in 5th grade and that was the starter of my addiction. All the streaks I have put up, longest one included, were ended by porn infiltrating and masturbation taking place after.

 

After years of masturbating, I think that masturbation (without the use of pornography) is a very pleasurable but empty activity. We don't need it in our lives, but we don't need to avoid it unless our lives are dominated by it. Also, I'm not judging anyone that engages in masturbation, it's not my business.

 

I thought your profile picture was a close up on Ugandan knuckles until I actually looked at it lol

 

During my fight, I have always tried doing a resistance based training exercise, similar to how weightlifting goes, but with PMO. Yes I have explored the possibility of making stimulus bland so I won't whip out my junk every time. I play one of these fap compilations or go look at IG chicks or whatever sets the loins on fire. Every time one pops, I go and do pushups, situps, and planks until this it goes away. I can keep my progress by whatever statistical method comes up like how many pictures went by or the time on the video or how long I lasted between boners or frequency and so forth. However, I have never tried this on actual porn because the studies have shown that it is porn which tricks your body into thinking you are mating with them. I might try to test out this hypothesis but I am not so sure because it is more dangerous territory than what I have treaded.

 

It’s not porn that tricks you into thinking you’re mating, it’s you. Your prefrontal cortex is not fucking retarded. If it’s functioning, not inhibited by your limbic system, you can easily realize you’re watching other people have sex on a screen. Masturbation is about tricking your body into thinking it’s having sex. Porn is just videos on a screen. As long as you continue to masturbate to anything, you live in a fantasy realm. Far away from realty. The moment you ejaculate your brain realizes you tricked it.

 

Porn addicts are addicted to sexual novelty resulting in the release of dopamine. Addiction means sensitisation to a substance or behavior associated with the 'reward-feeling' of dopamine. With porn addiction, an already naturally existing association between dopamine and sexual triggers gets even more sensitised. Someone can get addicted to playing video games for example, even though playing video games is not a natural reward and therefore without addiction would not result in a sensitized physical response. Being sensitive to sexual triggers is something that happens regardless of porn addiction, that's why there is an overlap in response to sexual triggers. Same with someone who was addicted to food, they will still start to feel hungry or their mouth will be watering when they see delicious food, because that's just a natural response.