P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I agree. The thing that you forget to mention, however, is that our innate sex wiring gets tangled with the wicked porn addiction wiring. Thats why MO or even sex can in the first years of reboot be bad for people recovering from porn(-edging) addiction

For a lot of people, hard mode for a couple years or even monk mode is needed

 

Can you point me to what exactly you think I am contradicting myself? I'd like to know so I can clarify

 

Excessive novelty of P for long period of time do cause some paws. But not in the level of orgasms and losing semen repeatedly. MO constantly will affect your endocrine system, your adrenal glands, your nervous system......
If I was addicted to p only I would have been cured long time ago. Instead I have nerves damages, adrenal gland messed up, insane tinnitus long term. I had to quit my job or pull out from society.

A lot of people reported that they have paws but they still able to have sex, working, doing other stuff. All I can do most of the time is lay in bed. That PMO shit fucked me up so bad, I've been in reboot since 2016 and discovered nofap in 2014.

 

I agree about abstaining from MO during a reboot. The wires are definitely all crossed.

 

I am wondering where you are getting your information?

In what world did we start thinking that this was outside the brain? Is gambling addiction also now some sort of mystical physical affliction? I don't get why people include 'nerve damage' in their description, unless you mean nerve cells in the brain (i doubt that). Please elaborate on your meaning of such terms.

Take your case for example. All the symptoms you describe are from high stress, resulted from the sudden removal of a coping mechanism (your addiction). We already know that chronic stress can alter other functions of the body. If you think it is something unrelated then maybe check adrenal glands etc first. We also know that the brain controls erections primarily so that's why as the brain starts to recover, we get our erections back. Some poeple on here even have a return of symptoms just by looking at P or P substitutes for a few minutes. Why would you think that would be true? There is no physical aspect there.

 

It sounds like you are in denial to be honest. You can't even stay away from P, so what does that tell you? have a think about it man. If you weren't addicted, then why do you have a problem with its use? Regardless of symptoms. If you have been trying to quit P for 6 years and you are still looking at it what does that tell you?

With that one sentence that basically proves you have managed to debunk all theories and science about P addiction? This is because you are feeling positive recovery benefits and normal withdrawal? Im very confused.

Next thing is sex addiction is not the same as masturbation addiction, so you should stop relating the two. Sex has nothing to do with it, might as well call it alcohol addiction.

Gary Wilson gives this information out for free, so where is the benefit for him? Again you make no sense. Some parts are outdated, for sure. What do you expect when very little research had been done at the time?

There are so many holes in what you are saying, also you haven't really been PMO free long enough to go off your own experience, from what i can tell. Also feel free to post links to where you are getting your information as i'm curious to check it out.

 

Yes I do.

I'm just not addicted to having sex, as in coïtus. I have an addiction to a certain fetish, and edging for hours to porn that satisfies me in that fetish before finally orgasming. To the extend that I have started to prefer this to having normal, bonding sex.

This is still sexual, but definitely not sex.

 

I definitely agree with you and what you said about edging. I think I was actually completely fine before edging and never really had any PAWS symptoms. I started edging at about 16 years old and I’m almost 21 now. The last 5 years of my life feel like a blur or a dream. Each year it has gotten worse, I feel like a shell of my former self. I’m just a lifeless dull zombie nowadays. I want nothing more in life than to go back to my self before edging.

My longest streak has been about 20 days. I keep relapsing every 10-14 days and it’s driving me crazy. What happens is I see a P Sub or any arousing image or video and out of nowhere it kind of feels like I enter a deeper state of flatline than I’m in and get more withdrawal symptoms. At that point I just say screw it and begin to edge for hours. Obviously terrible thing to do.

So yeah I really do think edging addiction is completely different than normal sex or orgasm addiction. It really destroys your brain. I’m only on day 4 now and I can’t imagine how I’m gonna be able to live like this for 2 years or so on hardmode before I can feel normal again. I also get wet dreams once a week or once every 2 weeks. They don’t feel terrible but it gives me a few withdrawal symptoms like relapsed do. Maybe this will get better later in my streak.

Anyways at least I’m not the only guy who had an edging addiction, I wish I could learn more about how much damage I’ve done to myself and how I could speed up the recover process.

 

You will be alright if you get very very strict with yourself. It will get worse before it gets better but if I had to guess at your age you will probably recover within 9 months. If you start relapsing this could get worse and go on for years though.

 

Thanks for the reply and encouragement. It’s extremely difficult to even put into words how drastically my life has spiraled downwards ever since I started edging. I literally feel like a different human being. if only I knew how much dopamine I was pumping into my head and how dangerous it was.

I pray that it only takes 9 months, you don’t understand how happy I’d be. Even a year, but 2 is just very hard to fathom.

Do you think wet dreams have a negative impact on recovery? Also does it really delay my recovery if I’m inadvertently exposed to arousing content like in movies and other media? I try to look away but sometimes even if I get aroused for maybe 10-15 seconds I start feeling worse. Could this get better later in recovery?

 

Also for whoever was talking about how this addiction could mess up your adrenal glands. I have adrenal hormones that are quite elevated and I really do believe it’s because of this addiction. It’s caused most of my hair to thin out and I’m only 21. The hormone is called DHEAS. My levels are at 900 ug/dL when the normal range is between like 300-550 or so. Dr. Told me that it’s not really a big deal and that it could just be my baseline. I think this edging addiction made it my baseline.

anyways who knows, I think the majority of the damage is in my brain.

 

Lets all get along and be nice to one another. We all have different experiences and everyones is valuable.

Ive not watched porn. Ive never edged. I was just obbsessed with achieving O as much as possible. Masturbating hard when flaccid, clamping my soft penis down to a position so I could beat it! When I got a regular girlfriend, I had ED. I used viagra to get hard, and had porn star like sex smashing away over and over as often as possible just to get orgasm. Then viagra stopped working and I started to find the nofap community.

Its interesting how we all differ, but its all tied into dopamine or the reward system on way or the other.

Porn = novelty = more dopamine = more sexual arousal = more orgasms - Thats how I see it. But edging keeping dopamine high for long periods makes complete sense to be damaging also.

An interesting experience ive had regarding deep voice and erections.... Ive injected testosterone and it never changed my nasally voice or improved my erections. However I took Mucuana Pruiens (basically dopamine powder) years ago, and for about three days my voice got super deep, solid erections galore. It never worked the same after the first time I took it. Thats what makes me beleive its all about dopamine, and perhaps more importantly our sensitivity to it.

Sure dopamine is released when sexually aroused, and it has a big part to play in erections. Sure edging keeps it elevated for a extended period of time, and that must have some effect. But I think dopamine and other pleasure chemicals must peak at orgasm, to give that great feeling. We have dopamine all day long, without it we are the empty unmotivated zombies that we see in the "flatline". When starting to recover we are gaining back our dopamine or sensitivry to it. All of a sudden we are coming out of flatline, and interested in eating, moving, socializing, grooming, working etc. The difference is night and day to me. Dopamine is always there perhaps, but its our sensitivity to it thats changing. When edgiing the dopamine is elevated above base for a period of time. But to me orgasm is the brief peak of ectasy which makes sense is a surge of dopamine. That super peak at orgasm over and over is what causes the damage in my opinion.

In regards to edging. I have found in my experience, the longer I edge wether M or SEX, the greater the euphoria at orgasm. ITs almost that the dopamine builds up over the time, and at orgasm it gets released or moved to another part of the nervous system. So is it the edging doing the damage directly? Or is it indirectly causing greater damage by a greater build up and release when orgasm is eventually released.

If one watched loads of porn and got aroused but never MO would they have an issue?
If one edged for hours and hours masturbating but never O would they have an issue?

Whether its high frequency of orgasm causing damage (my experience) or edging and then having one LARGER orgasm, I beleive the damage is the same.

Porn is just the ultimate dopamine fuel, providing the novelty and drive to orgasm.... I THINK!

 

I dont think Gary Wilson should be knocked. He highlighted the issue and made it mainstream. Without him I wouldnt of noticed my issue even though porn isnt involved in my case. He should be applauded as he has undoubtedly saved many people alot of pain. He has also attempted to profit out of his discovery, so I think he should be allowed some slack when creating a narrative to sell his books and make some money.

He has highlighted perhaps the most common reason for excessive sexual activity - streaming porn. But that doesn't mean there isn't other reasons for excessive sexual activity. Mine was simply my obbsessive personality got hooked on the feeling of orgasm.

I do agree though in what you say it is a little irresponsible for him to say things like masturbation is healthy, and having sex is healthy without saying anything about frequency and over indulgence. From what ive read he doesnt encourage hard mode, monk mode or whatever. He actually encourages you to have sex and orgasm and to masturbate without porn. The effects of orgasm in my experience is the same whether im having sex with a loving partner or masturbating.

 

Lets not turn this thread into a twitter fued, as it would be a huge disservice to others suffering and looking for answers. The whole reason im still here is to do just that. I have been reporting on this thread for a long time and it should stay on topic. Too many times this thread goes on a tangent when someone comes on and thinks they know what is going on. It is exhausting.

Its much more beneficial and positive to continue the reports, thoughts and discussions that this thread was meant for. It is a thread for long-term sufferers or people looking for help and if you are not one of those then you probably shouldn't be here.

 

Thank you

 

Ok PAWS reports only I promise! Ive been waking up motivated and opinionated the last few days hence my subject stiring posts! a few weeks ago I don't think id even be able to focus enough to be able to write so much!

Day 118 today - Im feeling a lift after a few days of exhaustion and low motivation. Today I woke up at 6am with a near perfect morning wood. Only my second one of the process. Things are looking good for me atm.

 

When I watch a video game cinematic, I get immediate goose bumps and chills down my spine, and then I feel like shit afterwards.

When I'm hanging out with a friend, the good mood overflows and I get tears in my eyes. But it doesn't last, soon I go into a bad mood and don't want to say anything.

Anyone else dealing with this bullshit?

 

Ive dealth with similar for years. Almost like I have a pleasure/happiness limit. Like I will sing/listen to music and I will feel awesome, tingles, euphoria and then after a certain amount of time, sometimes minutes, sometimes an hours itll just STOP. Then I will be left feeling rubbish again. Almost as if there is only so much happy chemicals to release, and when its gone your left running on empty.

If it encourages you, since 100 days into my reboot, this has improved.

 

Day 121 Hardmode

Had a few really good days! Thursday night, girl came over and we went out for a meal.. BAck to mine, I took a little viagra but laying on bed bed with her talking I was getting aroused like ten mins after taking so dont think viagra was working yet as I had a full stomach. So im gaining confidence, I think ill take less and less and hopefully never take that shit again. Sex was good, didnt come close to O. Could control my orgasm and still have good sex. I Couldnt go hard for very long, but she was very satisfied.

Mood motivation energy is all up. Yestarday I was driving my van early morning to go to a job, listening to some dance music, and I felt mild euphoria, and felt really happy all morning. I Cant explain how amazing this is for me, my life has been empty and miserable and it seems all of a sudden im a happy and motivated person. The difference is incredible, Ive taken drugs inthe past and it feels like im on a mild high all the time. I understand why people say superpowers as thats what it feels like when youve been a miserable zombie for so long. Just feeling normal feels like a superpower.

Im in a really good place, getting up early, exercising daily, working hard, motivated, socializing, grooming. Im so happy right now

IF your interested read my journal on here and I was a suicidal zombie not able to get out of bed for most of days 10-100.

I suspect your mood and energy levels improve first, and then that motivation grows and your sexual function improves as well. But even if I dont regain normal sexual function I Dont care... Im happy.

 

100% agree

Quick update; Im around 25 days monk mode and today had a surge in fantasies for the first time. Im going to start daily scoring my symptoms to track them through this recovery period, Im 17 months in now almost to the day, and my brain is aching hard with sexual fantasies of a hardcore nature