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Gary Wilson says some people are permanently damaged

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Hisself, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    That’s a very tricky and nuanced question.
     
    Candun likes this.
  2. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    Shoot me questions if you have them.
     
  3. Liven

    Liven Fapstronaut

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    I've have read some of his book but often i can only read a few pages since i start to lose hope and my mood changes bad. Reading this thread i believe can cause alot of guys to give up. I also get anxiety reading this and gets relly scared and also sad.

    Luckily there is a lot of positive people here and success storys that gives hope
     
    Ricardo26 likes this.
  4. Liven

    Liven Fapstronaut

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    I also am one of those people and I feel hope reading this.
     
  5. SaiyanWarrior

    SaiyanWarrior Fapstronaut

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    I believe we can be healed. I believe even if it is permanent it still can be healed. Of course to do that you will have to do a lot of things.
     
    Ricardo26 likes this.
  6. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    How old are you and how much sex did you have before rebooting?

    How is the quality of your erection and sex life ? (ie, are you able to get it up on demand and keep going for long?)
     
  7. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    27 , 0 , have only gotten head and hj so far so good though. In all likelihood I imagine I will see more healing as I continue to incorporate sex and I am not ruling out the possibility of ups and downs to come.
     
  8. Ricardo26

    Ricardo26 Fapstronaut

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    They should close nofap page thers alot of negativity i have Autism all the things i read here gives me anxiety theres no things like permanent if you beleave in God you can get healed for God theres nothing imposable lets have faith and dont lose hope
     
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  9. Staystrong2020

    Staystrong2020 Fapstronaut

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    Hey, I am really curious about what you say because i am in a similar situation like yours but i am 23 and i never had sex. How long did it take for you to solve the ED problems? You had a girlfriend in this time, you rebooted with her cuddling, kissing or you just abstained from PMO? How many tries you had before being finally able to maintain an erection? Are you able now to have multiples goes per night or you took it slowly? Please , i really expect an answer, cuz i am in a very delicate position because of this. Thank you in advance.
     
  10. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    All these questions are difficult to pin down. All I can say is you won’t know until you try.
     
  11. Staystrong2020

    Staystrong2020 Fapstronaut

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    I know what you mean by that. It depends from person to person, how addicted a person is, how much time this person engaged in this addiction etc. But now i am strictly refering to your personal condition if you can tell me; how much time you stayed out of PMO before being able to maintain an erection and how many times you tried having sex before being able to have a real life sex experience. I know its not like it will be the same for my conditon, but i am really curious cuz i can see you started this topic in 2017 , so 3 years have passed since then and i want to know if it took you 3 years or in these 3 years you also had relapses. Also i want to know your longest streak and if you are still masturbating today. I can find a lot of similarities between your condition and mine. I had one time a streak of one year of NO PMO, but i relapsed after one year, and i didnt have sex in this one year of NO PMO. I came back to PMO even harder than before till i reached to the point where i couldnt get erect from Porn and Masturbation. Now i started over again. Its hard but i know i can do it this time. This is why i am asking, it helps me a lot to hear stories from succesful people that overcame this demon of PMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
    M Eezy and Hisself like this.
  12. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    When I said it’s hard to pin down I was referring to my own situation. My initial streak of 10+ months saw massive improvement, I had many hard ons around women I was dating but never had sex due to performance anxiety. After a series of relapses I saw much slower progress due to kindling and because I supposed I had pied many times I shied away from opportunities that could have very well proven otherwise. This is why I am hesitant to throw out figures and why my advice now would be very different than it was in the past. Quit porn and artificial stimulation aka social media, magazines, purposefully glancing at billboards or sexual stuff on tv. This must be a lifelong commitment otherwise forget healing from pied. Kindling will make each relapse worse and prolong paws upwards of several years. Every chance you have to rewire with women you are attracted to take it. Idc if you don’t think it will work, you have no idea until you try. If it doesn’t work either be honest or even better make some dumb excuse and move on, it’s none of their business at the end of the day. Develop an abundance mindset and actively work on approaching women and get over any oneitis tendencies you have. Don’t worry about when you will be cured. You have no control of this outside of the advice I already gave you. Work on yourself, you have obviously neglected important aspects of your life if you wound up in this position. That comes first. Don’t worry about your dick not working if you don’t have high quality women trying to get into your bed. If you have a chance to get with a woman you’re attracted to take it and if you can’t perform their opinion of you is none of your business. Move on. You know what you have to do, no porn, only real women, work on yourself. That’s it
     
  13. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    Bruh, I know I'm permanently damaged, no need for any expert to tell me, in fact I seriously believe I'm damaged by default, but that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement
     
  14. Staystrong2020

    Staystrong2020 Fapstronaut

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    I am shocked that my situation resembles yours a lot. I have been one time on a streak of one year, i relapsed just when i achieved the 1 year. Like you i saw massive improvement, became more attractive with the women, all of them started suddenly glaring at me and smiling to me, without any joke. But along with this for me it was the terrible side effects of withdrawal. I encountered foggy mind, couldn t concentrare like i had ADHD condition, massive social anxiety and social akwardness, insomnia and a lot of dreams, especially dreams with my fantasy, because i also suffer from crossdressing fantasy. It was horrible and a dream was the reason i relapsed and the fact that it wasnt a straight sex dream was the thing that made me worry more, cuz even i indulged a lot of years in crossdressing and sissy fantasy and homosexual fantasies, i am not homosexual, i know for sure. I dont find men attractive when i see them on the street and i always turn my back after girls so i know that i am not. The fantasy just brainwashed me till the point that straight porn didn;t make it for me anymore... and in the last months i reached the point where even with my fantasy i will not get erect.
    Like you said, in this one year i run away from opportunities of having sex because i thought i will have pied, when i probably wouldnt get it. Just one time in this one year, i tried it with a hooker when i was 10 months free of PMO, but she didnt make me any interlude, it was a cheap one, she just undressed and started sucking my dick with the condom on, so i wasnt able to get not even one tiny erection . Shortly after this i refused an offer of sex with a girl that i really liked, because i thought the same will happen with her.... ye i know, i was stupid as fuck. By kissing and cuddling i will get erect in an instant at that point, but with the hooker i havent been able because she didnt even kiss me or anything... I didnt understand that it will not be the same with a girl. Probably i was nearly fixed at that point, but that bad experience with the hooker created the performance anxiety for me.
    I wanted to ask you about this detail. There are people over this forum that say you need maybe at least 6 months up to 1 year of abstaining, not even trying to have real sex during this rebooting proces, especially for those who didnt have real sex experience before ( like in my case) and for those who also indulged in a lot of fantasies ( like my crossdressing fantasy) and in a lot of edging ( I used to spend some days maybe 4-5 hours of edging, just watching a lot of porn, masturbating and stopping right before the climax, i would attain that orgasm after 5 hours maybe of fapping, yes i know really fucked up). This is what i wanted to ask you about. Right now i am almost reaching 60 days of NO PMO again. In the last 4 months and a half i fapped only one time. Also at this point of my life, i got myself a girlfriend and real soon i will want to try have sex with her. Should i wait more before i try? Should i try right away ? When did you start trying, after how many months of NO PMO? Also, should i let her give me a blowjob, will this thing slow my rebooting process? i really want to know your impression about this and your experience.

    The last thing i want to ask is how you dealt with the flatline. For me, like i said above, it was horrible, it was literally hell. The reason i know that these symptoms of mine were related to abstaining from PMO is that right away after i started fapping again after that one year streak, all of them diminished, no insomnia anymore, 2-3 days after a session of fapping no anxiety. So anyone who tells me that you cannot get witrawal symptoms from abstaining , i will frankly call him an idiot. There are times when i feel that only a session of masturbation will relieve me of these horrible symptoms... but i know that i must stick to this road of NOFAP forever. For me i feel like this is my last opportunity, because i am already 23 years old and i cannot think of fapping ever again. I know that for me maybe these symptoms will not dissapear even after 2 years of NO PMO, maybe after 4-5 years, but i want to diminish them having a healthy sex life, which right now i am not able to have because of the PIED.

    So, as a conclusion, should i try have sex right after 2 months of NO PMO or should i wait more till my first attempt? Is it too soon? Is it, from your experience, bad to let your girlfriend touch and rub your dick for the rewiring?

    Thank you for your time. God bless our souls!
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    M Eezy likes this.
  15. Hisself

    Hisself Fapstronaut

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    I’ve had many pmo sessions that lasted more than 5 hrs. I wouldn’t necessarily go right for sex if you are going to try, foreplay first, make out, get naked and chill in bed until you feel comfortable, if she is leading and seducing you let her, if you feel you have to say something before she wants to have sex then do but you may not have to. If you are leading go at your own pace. You don’t have to have sex to rewire, you can lay in bed naked or making out without sex. If she wants to give you a blowjob it isn’t going to hurt rewiring, none of this will. The only thing that can set you back is forcing an erection or orgasm against your body’s will. If you are leading the seduction go at your own pace. If you want get naked in bed with her and if you feel uncomfortable just explain that you’ve had some negative sexual experiences in the past and to be patient. Then just take your time and go as far as you want. Don’t make it weird or it will be a turnoff for her and could kill the seduction.
     
    M Eezy likes this.
  16. Gary Wilson might be wrong about the whole D2 receptor downregulation/desensitization as well. So he could also be wrong about the "permanent" damage.

    In 2017 I participated in a porn addiction study at University Medical Center Groningen in The Netherlands to investigate if porn addiction down-regulates D2 receptors in the nucleus accumbens by using radioactive raclopride (selective dopamine D2 antagonist) in a PET scan and an fMRI scan to scan the reward pathway VTA - NAcc - PFC.

    Guess what, today I called the with the doctor to ask him the results, because I was losing patience, and wanted to know the results, which is: there was no D2 receptor down-regulation in any of the addicted participants, including me. They all had issues with low motivation, anhedonia, anxiety and severe PAWS, otherwise known as prolonged withdrawal. (including me). My brain showed normal D2 binding and normal blood flow to the prefrontal cortex. No sign of hypofrontility. The MRI also showed no sign of abnormalities in the nucleus accumbens of all participants.

    We talked about other dopaminergic receptors that could be involved and maybe D3 has something to do with our problems.

    The study is about to be published on pubmed, but it can take some time.

    About myself: I have relapsed multiple times and no real bad withdrawal symptoms have come back. I still believe PAWS (withdrawal) from this addiction is real and it's a dopaminergic problem, but D2 receptors are not involved according to this study. My brain showed normal D2 density just as the controls. There are other systems involved, and me and the guy who performed the study hypothesize opioid and dopamine anomalies in the VTA (ventral tegmental area), but not with D2 receptors in the NAcc (nucleus accumbens)

    I was kind of disappointed and also a bit sceptical, because I was hoping to see some changes in my brain. To prove that this porn addiction really is a thing and can be measured with scans. It's strange that people with other behavior addictions like gambling, do show this blunted D2 binding... This study can be used as fuel by the porn addiction naysayers. So I hope this study gets peer reviewed and more faculties perform more and advanced studies on the matter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2020
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  17. Were you ejaculating a lot in your pmo days?
     
  18. Agent

    Agent Fapstronaut

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    No one is permanently demaged from PMO, with God everything is possible. Trust me, some cases people might be more affected either psychologically or physically due to it but there's no such thing as permanent demage.
     
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  19. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    They are often one and the same.

    I was a chronic porn user, but since have escalated to escorts, and compulsive masturbation to erotic and novel fantasies.
     
  20. I was binge edging for hours after I found my favorite porn flick. Sometimes 5 hours. When I finally reached orgasm, I had an extreme chaser effect and started binging orgams, right after the refractory period left and prolactin levels decreased, I started trying to O ask much as possible. (Because I thought fuckit! Might as well full blown relapse now all progress is lost anyway. That is always my worst mistake. Chaser effect. After doing this cycle in 2018, a truly hellish withdrawal occured. More than 50 hellish symptoms and had to quit my job and social life for 200+ days.

    Right now I'm a lot more stable and I'm not being plagued my these extreme chaser effects.
     

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