Advice on Relationship with Transgender In-Law

Since noFap seems to be an excellent place to get advice from a large variety of good intention-ed people, I thought I would seek out ya'lls advice.

I am married with more than 4 kids, they are all young (less than 8 years old). My brother-in-law is a transgender woman (born a man, lives as a woman). He is young (in his 20s), and he came out not too long ago. He takes hormones and has had surgery. My kids knew him before he came out to everyone, and these days my brother-in-law looks very different due to the hormones, surgery, clothing, and make-up.

Since he lives in a different state and since we didn't visit with him much (even before he came out to everyone), we haven't had to address the situation and have had the luxury of riding the fence.

My wife and I don't approve of his decision to become a woman. And, we especially don't approve of his hormone therapy and surgery (due to the risks and permanence of those things).

Why I don't approve:

There are logical reasons, which I will focus on, and there is a simpler reason, which I will mention first in attempt to not hide anything from you all.

Simple Reason: I feel uncomfortable being around and talking to a "woman" who I have known for years to dress like a man and talk like a man. It just weirds me out. I think, though, I would eventually get desensitized to the feelings of weirdness. So... I try not to dwell on those feelings, as I think they are only temporary.

Logical Reason: Why waste soooooo much time in your life trying to change yourself from a man to a woman? This seems like such an empty and selfish endeavor. Physical appearances are very superficial. I dislike the idea of someone having surgery to change themselves into a woman as much as I do the idea of paying to have your boobs artificially enlarged. Shouldn't humans worry about more important things, like, helping out their neighbor, volunteering, raising their kids? My brother-in-law claims he needs to be a woman to be happy, but, I contend that he will never find happiness by changing his external appearance, and that he will only find happiness by healing himself from within.

Where I am Seeking Advice: We worry about allowing him to influence our kids. I talked with him about this and even he admitted that he would at some point explain his thoughts on his actions to our kids. I really don't want an authority figure in my kid's life trying to explain to them that having sex change surgery is one way people find happiness in their lives. At the same time... am I just being an ignorant conservative honky? I also don't want to hurt my brother-in-law in an effort to protect my children, if that effort to protect my children is unnecessary.

I feel conflicted. Your differing views and varied advice might be helpful.

thanks

 

@wildwood, thanks for the opposite opinion, it is much appreciated.

My statement, "Why I don't Approve", IS a form of judgement. Aren't there times while raising a child, that judging others is necessary? For example...

"Hey little Jimmy, stay away from the that anti-gay family. I don't approve of them, they are going to put selfish and bigoted thoughts into your head."
or
"Hey little Jimmy, stay away from that porn star, she is likely to get you involved in some filth that will warp your mind."

Both statements are judgmental and presumptuous, but, they are both debatably good advice for a child. Who knows, the porn star might be the kindest person in the world, or she might have been the prostitute Jesus met at Jacob's well.

Likewise, shouldn't I discourage my kids from using surgery or medicine to solve their problems, if I whole-heart-idly believe they are the wrong path to take?

Another example... (true story for me, and fairly common from what I understand) I am surrounded by several unhappy family members who are taking doctor prescribed anti-depressants to cure their unhappiness. They keep trying new drugs, each drug has its side effects, and nothing is working. Is it wrong of me to teach my children to avoid anti-depressants in an effort to find happiness? My point is, that, a little bit of judgement of others is required as a parent. To be clear, I never make strong judgments, like... "You are going to hell if..." or "Steve is an evil person for doing...". I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I always assume I don't know the whole story, and I recognize that we are human and we all have our own fallacies/struggles/hardships.

I don't think I am judging based on societies standards. But... I am biased, I am the product of my society at some level, so, maybe part of me is judging due to societal norms (I'll never know for sure). I do think that most of my opinion on this topic was formed from my past experiences in life. I remember being depressed throughout my adolescent years and having extremely low self esteem. I remember doing what I could to change myself so that others would accept me. I remember everything I tried, didn't work. It wasn't until later in life that I learned to accept myself the way I am, and, I starting being happy.

This statement squarely hits on the conflict going on in my head. How resilient are my kids? How much should I shield them from the real world? One problem with being a parent is that you never know and probably will never know, what were the right/wrong parenting decisions.

I guess... I hope this thread, might do one of the following...
1. Give me reason to rethink my position on the idea that external features should be altered to make you happy internally. (obviously there are some extremes where this would be ok, like, your face got ripped off by an ape, so you had surgery to fix your disfigurement)
2. Help me better know how to expose my children to behavior that I worry will influence them in a wrong and lasting way.
3. Make me not worry so much about the impact my brother-in-law's decision will have on my children's life.

 

@wildwood and @Limeaid, thank you very much for expressing your feelings on the subject. I am asking these questions because I want my worldview to be challenged. I am open to changing the way I view the world and I need people brave enough to challenge me. In my non-internet life, I am surrounded by people who will only affirm my feelings or who are too afraid to challenge them. I consider myself lucky to have found noFap, as noFap is a place where I can hear and discuss different world views and meditate on them.

So... I want to ask both of you all to continue to entertain me while I push back on your comments. I feel like I don't fully understand where you all are coming from, there seems to be some sort of disconnect. As in, I feel like I am talking about bananas while ya'll want to discuss apples.

Let us start with where we seem to all agree.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed. Although, I don't think a missing arm is the same as a gender identity problem.

Some things I would like to clarify

I agree that the possibility exists for someone to be a woman trapped in a mans body. Only my brother-in-law can know for sure if he is a woman trapped in a mans body. If he believes that to be true, then, that is fine with me. But, I do think there is a choice my brother-in-law had to make. He could (a) be a woman who had a mans body, (b) or he could physically change his body. He has chosen (b). He fully has the right to choose (b). I am willing to accept the decision he made, but, I don't have to agree with his decision. I will beat the dead horse again, I don't agree with the idea that a woman or a man should get face lifts, peck implants, boob implants, liposuction, hair removal, wigs, hair growth treatment, etc. I don't want to encourage my child to think that way. I want them to love themselves for the way they were born. I want them to learn that it is ok to be a feminine male or a masculine woman, just be yourself. Don't take on the medical risks associated with steriods, hormones, weight loss drugs, surgery, etc. etc. that many people do to make themselves happier. I believe that society has screwed with peoples minds and convinced them that if they feel like a woman on the inside, that, having a penis needs to be fixed. What is wrong with a woman having a penis? Be yourself, be a woman with a penis, own it, but, don't risk your life with surgery, don't mess your body up by taking hormones that are not well understood by the medical community.

At the same time, I can't fault a woman with a penis from succumbing to an overwhelming desire to better fit in with society. If you are insecure about yourself, it is only natural to try and find a way to fit in better into society, this is only normal. But... it is not what I would recommend to my children.

I never meant to imply that I thought my brother-in-law's transgenderism might cause one of my kids to be transgender. I agree, that is a rather silly idea. Rather, I am worried that my brother-in-laws outlook on life that he can find happiness by going under the knife and taking pills will affect my children. My brother-in-law is a walking example of people trying to solve problems through drugs and surgery. When I was growing up, my behavior and worldview were heavily influenced by my uncles, and thus, I expect the same to be true for my children.

While writing this response, I started remembering one of my uncles that my mom sheltered me from. We only saw him once or twice a year during the holidays. Due to the less frequent visits, he had very little impact on my life. This is an option. But... I think myself and my wife want to have more of a relationship with her brother than my mom had with her brother. So... I don't think avoiding contact with my brother-in-law is a very nice thing to do and is a pretty crappy long term plan.

Maybe there is some research out there that might change my opinion on the subject.

I don't think this statement fairly represents my mindset. If I didn't have kids, none of this would be an issue. I would give my brother-in-law my advice and then accept whatever he decided. But... I have kids, and I need to determine the best way to have a relationship with my brother-in-law with the kids around. I agree, I have my own problems, I have no right to look down on my brother-in-law. I don't feel I am looking down on him anymore than I look down on myself or everyone else in the world.

To move forward, I am either going to have to do one of the following...

• (a) decide that surgery and drugs are an acceptable way to deal with personal issues
• (b) decide I can as a parent explain my opinion to my kids and become comfortable with the idea that my opinion will carry more weight than my brother-in-laws opinion and trust my brother-in-law to respect my position on the matter
• (c) restrict my kids exposure to my brother-in-law

(c) is morally horrible, so, I won't be doing that.
(a) is the most attractive, because it would make things so much simpler, but, when I am honest with myself, I still can't agree
(b) sucks, because it is murky, and confusing, and full of stress and feelings of resentment between all parties involved. But... (b) seems like the only viable option.

Am I missing something?

Parting thought: Writing this post has been very eye opening for me. I think my brain is slowly coming to a realization that I should be able to explain my worldview to my kids and find a way to have a healthy relationship with my brother-in-law.

 

I have been surprised by the quickness in which people got angry about my post. I didn't get it at first. See... I used to be a really angry guy and I still have my problems with fits of anger. But... anger is so blinding, like a bright white light that washes out everything else in my brain. I can't think when I am angry. I make problems worse when I am angry. I miss opportunities when I am angry. I usually regret getting angry.

For example, I infer that people are agitated that I don't yet feel comfortable referring to a person to my brother-in-law as my "sister-in-law". I mean... I am just being honest. You all don't know the entire story. You don't know that the last time I talked with him, I called him "sister" and I referred to him as a "her". The last time I met with my brother-in-law, he was a he. He lives in a different state. It is hard for me to think of him as a her, it is foreign to me. My visual image of him is as a dude. Isn't that a normal response? Additionally, I am in my mid 30s, and I have my own flaws, my own baggage, my own bigotry, my own preconceptions about things, why in the hell are a lot of people surprised and offended by my feelings on the subject? Offended? Why aren't you hopeful about the fact that I am seeking answers? Would you rather I just keep my mouth shut and not ask for your opinion? Would you rather that I do not risk offending you? The collective "you" I am referring too isn't just the LGBT supporters on noFap, but, also others I have tried to talk to about this topic in the past.

back to what I wrote... "I didn't get it at first."

I guess I will never fully "get it". By "it", I mean the anger of the LGBT community. But... when I was looking for answers I ran across this article...
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/gay-anger/Content?oid=4252

And, it made me think. I, like a large percentage of the population, was a depressed kid through most of puberty. I was shunned by the cool crowd, I found myself without friends. But... as I have matured, I have realized, my problems with depression and suicidal thoughts when I was a kid was fairly normal and they could have been a lot worse. Lots of people went through similar childhoods, and my story isn't very unique.

In contrast, I didn't grow up confused about my gender or attracted to the same sex. That would have been devastating to me. I mean, I saw those kids in the hall at school, I avoided them like the plague. I felt sorry for them, but, nonetheless, stayed away from them. I thought... god, I am glad he isn't my brother, that would be so embarrassing. So... yeah, I will never fully understand the anger of LGBT people, because, I will never understand what people like me put them through (and people worse than me put them through) while they were growing up. I am sorry I was that way. My only excuse was that I was insecure and flawed. I guess, if I had grown up gay or transgender, I would be angry too. I wouldn't just be a little bit angry, I'd probably be one seriously pissed-off SOB, especially when anyone hinted that they might treat another LGBT person the same way I was treated growing up.

I realize now, that at some level I should respect the anger of the LGBT community. It is not my place to tell them when they should quit being angry.

I do wish however, that people like me, could have more open conversations about the topic without having to worry so much about easily offending everyone in the room. I wish I did not have to worry so much about shutting down the conversation before it even begins. But... if you are hurt and gotta be angry, then, fine. I'll get over it.

“As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I'd still be in prison.”
-Nelson Mandela

 

well crap. i guess im the overly sensitive one.