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His porn and your relationship are separate

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by RiverBlue, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    It's probably hard for any SO to comprehend, but at root a porn addict's attraction to porn is separate, even unrelated, to his attraction to his partner.

    I have been in passionate relationships with women I loved, and still would view porn and masturbate to it. The urge for porn came from feelings that were not even really sexual. For me it is mostly to avoid thinking about stressful things in my life or just from boredom.

    So my porn habit was separate from and didn't really effect my sex life with my partner - at least from my perspective.

    You can take away 2 things from this, I think. First, a man's addiction to porn doesn't mean he doesn't love you or that there is something wrong with your love making. He can be getting everything he needs sexually and emotionally from you and still have an urge toward porn. Porn is fulfilling completely different needs for him.

    Second, you can't replace porn in his life. There is nothing you can do sexually that will pull him away from porn. If he and you really want to end his feelings for porn, he will need to work on the underlying causes of his addiction. The most you can do is support him.

    Speaking of which, I am sure the fact your partner lies about his porn use is hurtful. That's fair. But consider that he is likely very ashamed. He is doing something that is really unacceptable and that he knows you want to stop, but he can't fully control himself. That's a terrible feeling.

    Also, his lying about his porn use doesn't mean he is lying to you about other things. If he's lying to you from shame, then it may be he is trying to protect your relationship from being torn apart by something he feels he just can't control. It doesn't necessarily mean he's dishonest generally.

    But, of course, any dishonesty has corrosive effects. And porn addiction too. So you need to decide for yourself whether this guy is worth the effort. If so, the best thing you can do is be fully supportive. Make him comfortable enough to be fully honest with you. And help him to deal with or seek help for the underlying sources of his addiction.
     
  2. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    There are two paragraphs in this that I think are very important, and 100% true:
    But I'm not convinced by the later paragraphs:
    I think that if we, as porn addicts, habbituate ourselve to lies and secrecy then it does make it easier to be dishonest in other aspects of our relationship. This idea that porn is a separate compartment that has no effect on the rest of your life is addict-thinking, it is not true.

    No, if our significant other decides to stay then they need to focus on their own recovery from betrayal trauma. It is great if they can be supportive too, but their main initial goal needs to be self-preservation. It's like they say on airplanes: fit your own oxygen mask first before helping your loved ones.
     
  3. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    I agree with this, absolutely. It's a different point than the one I was making about supporting him, but completely true. A SO can't support her partner if she isn't healthy herself. And getting herself healthy may in fact mean getting out of the relationship entirely. That's what I meant by having to decide first whether the guy is even worth it.
     
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  4. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    Agreed, but if she decides to stay she still needs to put herself first. Putting oneself first does not always mean leaving (thank goodness!)
     
    !mkj!, Psalm27:1my light and Lilla_My like this.
  5. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    Very smart input from both of you on this thread; I hope many women get read it. It's very difficult not to feel extremely down sometimes, but these kinds of insightful posts make it so much easier. Hopefully, addicts in recovery, like you both, understand how valuable you are to the relationship forum. Us SOs can't thank you enough.
     
  6. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    This! Putting yourself first often times feels selfish to the so. Most women are taught that they should think of others first and take “ care” of others. This works in a normal marriage where the man also cares and gives and supports. But addicts only take. They don’t see it when addicted. They don’t see their selfishness. All people have a level of selfishness, but addiction makes the addict completely self absorbed. It’s amazing how different they are when clean. For the so, she must care for herself first, especially if she decides to stay. It’s self preservation. My husband is one who falls into the category of only lying about porn use. He is rigorously honest with everything else. Now, don’t think I believe that because he says it, I know he’s honest about everything else because of me and my gut. Ironically, the only place he’s destroyed trust is about his porn, all other areas of life, I’d trust him with my life.
     
  7. used19

    used19 Fapstronaut

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    But how are we supposed to believe that something sexual - arousal, lust, orgasm - doesn't have some relation to us, some reflection of us, especially in the case of marriage. Feels like trying to swallow a big whopper of a lie with our husbands telling us, oh don't worry this has nothing to do with how good you look, with my attraction to you, with what I want to do to you and how you make me feel. Looking at those women and getting excited has nothing to do with looking at you and getting excited. I only use the perfect bodies to orgasm for when I can't cope with life and your body I use for love. Really? How? Sorry honey, if I'm feeling badly I gotta pull out the big guns, the perfect stuff. I'm really struggling with this idea of calling something clearly very sexual not sexual. Been going round and round with this with my own partner - yes dear I imagined myself screwing her and pretended my hand was her (thanks btw wife for giving me the real life know how of what that other lady might feel like) but really it's got nothing to do with you, you're just great. Sorry for the anger- on our end there is no way to separate it at all.
     
  8. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    I am not saying you shouldn't be angry. His behavior has obviously terribly affected your relationship and your happiness. That's why I've made the point to other posters that every partner of someone who is addicted to porn (or any other sexual addiction) needs to decide early on whether it is even worth staying in the relationship. Your happiness is important and don't fall for any idea that you owe your partner something. Get happy. Do what you need to do.

    In any case, my original post wasn't to make excuses for anyone. It was to address something that I think partners take on themselves (which by the way it doesn't sound like you do) -- an idea that they've failed in some way to satisfy their partner. Or that there is something they can do to fix their partner. I'm just saying don't think that you can fix things by working on your appearance or doing more in bed or whatever. That's not going to fix his addiction. You and his addiction are separate. Don't fall into that trap. You will only make yourself more miserable by taking that on.
     
    Lilla_My likes this.
  9. used19

    used19 Fapstronaut

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    Can I ask how you managed to keep them separate? Because we really can't see it as separate. I mean like if this was a drug, yeah it's a different thing to get the high. But we really can't see the difference between other naked woman doing things for a a high vs. us, also a naked woman doing things + a little love producing another high that for all purposes is the same high. For us naked woman = naked woman.
     
  10. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    Maybe a better word than "separate" is different. What I am really saying is that you need to separate yourself from his problem.

    The actual difference between you and porn is fundamental -- you = actual woman doing actual things to/for your partner v. porn = no actual person doing any actual thing to/for your partner. It's apples and oranges. The two might be related in some sense (sexual in once sense and fruit in the other). But if he wants an apple, then an orange isn't going to replace it. And it might just be he wants both an apple and an orange. And that doesn't make the orange any less worthy or delicious.

    Again I'm only saying a partner shouldn't delude herself into thinking that there is anything the partner can do to replace porn. And there is nothing the partner didn't do that led to porn. Porn is something different and it needs to be dealt with at its core separately.

    That's not to say your relationship isn't something that needs to fixed too. Or that your partner can't work on both the addiction and your relationship at the same time. But they need to be dealt with in parallel. One won't fix the other.
     
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  11. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    I don't know if this helps but I have several posts trying to explain why this was true for me:

    (N.B. That quote is from an old journal post in October 2017 when I was a year into my current streak. If I was to write that post now the tense would be past tense not present tense.)

    And here's a similar post I made a month later in a thread about watching porn with your partner:

     
    Psalm27:1my light likes this.
  12. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Good post. One thing my husband has come to realize, he has mistaken anxiety for sexual desire ( urge to pmo) because he has used pmo to relieve anxiety his entire life. With anxiety he never wants sex from me. That’s even more stressful because he’s worried about me and my responses etc. He wants sex with me when he is looking for love/connection. It has taken over a year for him to realize the difference in urges.
     
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  13. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    I can relate to that. Stress/anxiety is my number one trigger -- even over visual stimuli.
     
    kropo82 likes this.
  14. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    They can't separate either if it was something that affected them.

    Start pretending openly that you're sleeping with his friends every time you two have sex and then say "but it's separate and I love you". Or compulsively masturbate to other men and treat him like a friend. It wouldn't be so "separate" then!

    If more women in relationships had a porn addiction, there would be pills and stately paid treatments centers to deal with it by now.
     
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  15. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    Many women believe that sex = love. Some men do it too, but because for a man an orgasm is almost guaranteed, as there doesn't have to be much more in sex other than a minute of some hip cardio for him to get off, men find it so much easier to separate sex from love and go for the pleasure without any feelings at all.
    That's not to say that being at least friends with a sex partner doesn't make things better, because it does, but is not essential to reach an orgasm.
    This is why men tend to be more chilled about sex and don't think much about it most of the time, while women tend to do the opposite. It is also why many women think poorly of men using sex toys, watching porn&masturbating, having sex with random people without being in a relationship with etc. Because to them it just isn't that natural to separate sex from love.
    And from the posts here it seems like they believe that a man watching porn while having a gf is kind of in love with porn as well as his gf. And there also comes the idea, also shared by a lot of women, of loving only one person and being faithful, which just makes things go to hell unless there is communication and an attempt at trying to understand each other.
    Right, and there is also a culture that is another factor. But I already exhausted the topic and culture and what I already said kind of interact with each other.

    If there was more communication rather than hiding heads in the sand, there would be no problems like this.
     
  16. Amaterasus

    Amaterasus Fapstronaut

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    I don't know but I find this post quit upsetting and disturbing, and while your argument might be valid in some cases that doesn't mean that it is universal for everyone here. I would say its the opposite.

    My PA have done many inexcusable things related to not keeping sex and p separate. Like making me dress as a pstar, act like one and the list there goes on for quite a while. It has also been to the extent of using me while fantasizing about p, more or less treated me like a sex toy. So can you really say that me and p is different? And I am not alone with these kind of stories, and further more I have not done these things to please him. To try to replace p in his mind, he's mind have been so full of that p is what sex should be and what he should have that he have forced these ideas on me. Like if you don't dress like this I can't get hard etc.

    Furthermore, supporting and coddling an addict is the worst idea ever. They will take that kindness and use it to manipulate you. My love and support will not heal him from hes addiction and he's lies. Only he himself can change that. He needs to want to get better, to stop lying no matter the consequences. Everything else is lies.

    And i guess this is what bothers me with your post, becouse it is partly lies that you tell yourself and others to feel better about what you do.
     
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  17. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    This is exactly what I was saying a partner should NOT do. Don't let yourself go down this road. It's not going to help him or you. You can't do anything sexually that is going to somehow pull him away from his addiction -- like making yourself more alluring, trying to be more exciting in bed, playing into his fantasies. These are not going to fix anything.

    You are separate from his addiction. Understanding that can help you heal, I think. But you do need to keep that separation. It sounds like you have (unwillingly) allowed that separation to erode or even disappear. I am sure in your position you are quite hurt. But I would suggest a first step in feeling better would be to reestablish that separation.

    It's up to you whether you want to try to support him or not. As I said in my first post, "So you need to decide for yourself whether this guy is worth the effort." In no way am I suggesting you or anyone owe anything to your addict. You're right though that your support alone isn't going to heal him.

    This doesn't make anyone feel any better. I hope though it might help some SOs deal better by understanding that their partner's behavior isn't targeted at them or an attempt to replace them. And also help them to avoid the heartache of trying to entice their partner away from porn or giving in to his porn induced desires. But there is nothing to feel good about this addiction. That is why we are all here.
     
  18. Amaterasus

    Amaterasus Fapstronaut

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    I feel like we might be talking over each other a bit, or not understanding each other. My point was more that my partner couldn't keep things separate, i did not do those things willingly to please him.

    In hes mind sex should be and most importantly look like p, and then he bullied me in lack of better words to do those things. It was never my wish to do that, but enough pressure and guilt can make a person do things they don't want.

    So i dont know, my point was more that it is dangerous to say that every addict can keep it seperare. Becouse in my experience not all of them can.

    But yea enforcing that they are seperate is the best thing a partner can do, that i agree with.
     
  19. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    My husband kept it so separate he wouldn’t have sex with me! Lol. He definitely wouldn’t try the more adventurous things I wanted because “ it felt too much like porn” and he viewed it as wrong. I’m not sure which is worse for the so. Getting rejected repeatedly in the bedroom does a number on your self esteem.
     
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  20. RiverBlue

    RiverBlue Fapstronaut

    I am so sorry that happened to you.
     

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