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Beware the False Friend of the Recovering Porn Addict - ‘The Pick Up Artist’

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by LycurgusTheLawgiver, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. LycurgusTheLawgiver

    LycurgusTheLawgiver Fapstronaut

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    Why ‘Pickup/Game’ thinking is inherently Flawed...

    Dear friends,

    Please forgive me the somewhat grand-and-theatrical-sounding title of this post. I’m a click-baity sort of soul, and I simply couldn’t resist it. My reason for creating the post is hopefully to draw the attention of some fellow rebooters to the fundamental fallacy inherent in ‘Pickup’ (sometimes referred to elsewhere as ‘game’) - a specious pseudoscientific cult philosophy which many of us will no doubt stumble upon in our search for ideas which may be of use in helping to relaunch our social lives. Having travelled some way down the supposed royal road of ‘pickup’ myself a few years back, and having been less than pleased and more than a little alarmed with where it led me (I have related some of these experiences in my previous post ‘The Rise of the Porn Induced Sex Maniac’), I thought that I would create this post in order to point out what I believe is the mother of all errors in ‘pickup’ thinking. An error which ensures that ‘pickup’ can never truly help its followers in their quest to better relate to or connect with women; at best, the devout practitioner of ‘pickup’ can hope only to dupe them occasionally. The great foundational error of which I speak arises from the way in which ‘pickup’ perceives womankind - as being somehow less human than men. For, whilst the most dedicated ‘pickup’ zealots will freely admit to you that it is one’s personal qualities, habits, and interests which determine the quality and quantity of the male friends one has; when it comes to intimate romantic relationships with women, they start from an entirely different set of assumptions altogether.


    You see, at the basis of the ‘pickup’ mindset is one belief. A belief upon which the whole further edifice is built; and without which, the whole thing would come tumbling down, never to be rebuilt again (an event which frequently occurs on an individual level, and can cause longtime ‘pickup’ devotees, no matter how high up in the hierarchy, to suddenly see the light and to turn their backs upon ‘pickup’ forever). Namely, that being attractive to women is a cold mechanical skill, and therefore not a uniquely composite personal quality made up of the many diverse personal factors which make a man who he is, and what he is i.e. his personality, beliefs, ethos, interests, aspirations, career, physical appearance, age, background, virtues, vices etc... No, in the make-believe world of ‘pickup’ one’s level of personal attractiveness is totally and conveniently severed from any connection with one’s person. ‘Pickup’ therefore, offers very little in the way of incentives for its followers to actually change themselves. Instead they are encouraged to purchase more ‘pick up’ material (often at truly exorbitant prices), to attend more bootcamps or seminars (likewise costing them a fortune), or, simply to spend more time approaching women. All the while, and all too often, however, the root of their problems lies much closer to home.


    One does not have to spend long reading or watching ‘pickup’ material, or speaking to so called ‘pick up artists’, to realise that to the inhabitants of this strange underworld, socialising with women is little more than a mechanical skill - comparable to say, fly fishing, or mathematics - and not a personal quality at all. Now, there are two logical corollaries of this flawed belief: the first, is the consequent assumption that interpersonal interactions take place in a void, if you will, over which the personal qualities and life circumstances, of the two interlocutors, exert no influence whatsoever - it is conversation in isolation, and as such, the ‘success’ or ‘failure’ of any social interaction can be neatly and conveniently reduced to a misapplication, or unskillful combination of any of the following four factors - these are: words said, physical gestures made, body language assumed, and the sequence and timing of these things. The life advice offered from the ‘pickup’ pulpit to millions of naive, often desperate, and thoroughly willing listeners, is almost without exception, delivered through the prism of this faulty underlying assumption. And therefore, the attempts of those men (no small number) who accept the weltanschauung, to improve their relationships with the other half of the human population, are doomed to failure from the very beginning; since, if things are not going well for them with any particular lady, according to the ‘mechanical skill’ explanation of attractiveness which they now adhere to, their ‘failure’ cannot possibly be in any way the result of who they are: their ethos, or outlook on life; their lifestyle itself; or the choices that they are making or not making in life. No, according to the paradigm which they have now accepted, their failure does not suggest introspection as even a possible answer to their woes; it suggests only a further and ever more careful dissection of their interactions into: words said, physical gestures made, body language adopted, and the order or sequence of these things, or it suggests spending yet more time out approaching women, or watching ‘pickup’ material, when often they would be far better served in getting their houses in order, so to speak. Just as an astronomer, working from the underlying assumption that the sun revolves around the earth, shall never succeed in gaining an accurate understanding of our solar system, no matter how ingenious his methods; so too, our ‘pick up man’ shall never get to the root of his problems in attracting, or relating to women, until like Copernicus he abandons the flawed model which he has been working from - in his case, the assumption that personal attractiveness is a ‘skill’ that bears no relation to the other aspects of his life. This dissonance between ‘pickup’ doctrine and social reality accounts for the seemingly paradoxical situation which most long-term adherents to ‘pickup’ inevitably experience - one which I have had personal acquaintance with: namely, that the longer they practice ‘pickup’; the more time they spend out on the streets; the more dedicated they become to analysing the minutiae of their - words said, physical gestures made, body language assumed, and the sequence or timing of these things; the more ‘pickup’ material that they buy and avidly watch - the worse their ‘results’ actually become.


    The second implication of the ‘mechanical skill’ model of male-female attractiveness, one which is essential for widespread devotion to ‘the art’ of ‘pick up’ to flourish in the first place, is the implicit assumption that it is perfectly feasible, even easy, for the average man to successfully employ false and artificial patterns of behaviour in the pursuit of romantic success: to interact with a hidden agenda, to use preprepared lines in conversations, and to follow elaborately devised artificial routines or sequences, which lead from one’s very first meeting with a woman all the way to her bedchamber; and that women (as human beings) are not naturally wired to detect such falseness and ‘smell a rat’. Whilst I do not deny that there are men, perhaps naturally psychopathic ones in some cases, or, simply men with a natural talent for acting and but few moral scruples, who can successfully pretend to be somebody that they are not for an extended period of time; converse in a natural manner whilst essentially following a script and harbouring an ulterior motive; and in doing these things, totally dupe people into long term relationships which benefit the deceiver at the expense of the other party - the existence of such prodigious ability for dissimulation is of course testified from time to time by the occasional publication of newspaper articles which relate the tales of such devious impostors, who somehow manage to trick their way into highly paid, and highly specialised jobs without having any experience in the field whatsoever - it seems clear to me for several reasons, that this is not the path which ought to be presented to the great mass of men who are increasingly turning to ‘pickup’ as a solution to their problems in connecting with women. As, whilst almost any young man who stalks the streets persistently enough looking for a sexual partner, no matter how strange and awkward he comes across (either due to his own flaws, or due to the unnatural act or routine he is attempting to put on) will eventually succeed in finding sex (an eventuality which is of course assured by the simple fact that problems such as loneliness, desperation and naïveté are not exclusive to men), such deception, no matter how skilfully employed - as our newspaper articles demonstrate - is ultimately destined to fall apart at some point further down the line; and, even were it theoretically possible for a man to keep up the act indefinitely, a final romantic relationship formed under such circumstances, would by necessity lack any authentic personal connection, and must needs carry with it a persistent level of anxiety and insecurity stemming from the ever present necessity of ‘keeping up the act’. As such the ‘fake it until you make it’ pathway which ‘pick up’ claims to offer, ensures from the very beginning that one will never truly ‘make it’; unless, that is, one’s only goal in the first place, is a string of occasional casual sexual acquaintances with women as equally socially destitute as oneself.


    In the end, the belief that personal attractiveness and thus romantic success is a mechanical skill, serves as a liberating belief for many of the men most receptive to the ‘pickup’ message in the first place. That is, men who have problems attracting and relating to women: men who often have serious deficiencies in their lifestyles, flaws in their outlooks, and more often than not, a lack of meaning, purpose or responsibility in their lives - all problems that would otherwise require serious and painful adjustments to both lifestyles and attitudes to rectify. For these men the ‘mechanical skill’ revelation means that they do not have to personally sacrifice anything in order to solve their ‘problem’; they can continue to be lazy and unambitious, to live for the most part, as social recluses whiling away their days playing video games or watching porn; eating junk food etc. It means that they will never have to look themselves hard in the eye; never truly get their act together; take on any onerous responsibilities; or adhere to any stifling and restrictive systems of values. No, they can simply continue as they are, exiting their den of self-indulgent mediocrity occasionally to practice their new ‘art’. Never will they have to look in the mirror and admit that they themselves are the source of their ‘problem’. Now, it might well be contended here by some, that the ‘pickup’ lifestyle does in fact involve sacrifices, and, that to depart from one’s cosy routine and devote a significant proportion of one’s time to approaching strangers on the streets is in fact a tough and daunting commitment; but as Disraeli said “one of the hardest things in this world is to admit that you are wrong, and nothing is more helpful in resolving a situation than its frank admission”. it can be so hard in fact, to admit that we’re wrong, that some of us will go to extraordinary lengths in order to avoid doing so. Thus, in the case of ‘pickup’, men will adopt elaborate pseudo-scientific philosophies, even spend their days chasing down strangers on cold wintery streets, in order to avoid its admission. Furthermore, the belief that ‘success’ with women is a mechanical skill, is uniquely appealing to the modern social recluse. A recluse living in a ‘fast food’, ‘on demand’ society, and who more often than not spends more time than is healthy in virtual pursuits such as video games, porn, and Internet forums. The great founding belief of ‘pickup’, which was itself conceived by geeky American social recluses in the early 2000’s, holds a unique appeal to his socially naive and virtually inclined mind; it is to him the sexual equivalent to the cheat codes on his favourite video games; it explains why women, despite being so eager to have sex with almost anybody in the porn films which he watches, have no desire whatsoever to have sex with him; it is the romantic equivalent to the fast food which he finds it so convenient to consume. The first part of Disraeli’s shrewd observation then, and the uniquely virtual disposition of the modern social recluse, help to explain why this seemingly absurd proposition, that social ‘success’ with women is a ‘skill’ - itself propagated via the internet - holds so much appeal to so many young men today. For all of the reasons I have enumerated above, these young men are not only ready to believe this fatuous breakdown of human social ‘success’, but they actually want to.
     
  2. At the end of the day, as you gloss over, pick-up gets people who can't tell the difference between a screen an a human being to go out and start trying to interact with human beings. It might be too late/impossible for them to form real relationships, but if that's true, then the sad fact is that pick-up is the closest they'll ever get. And there must be plently of men in this situation, otherwise the field wouldn't have swollen to the proportions it has. It's sad, but what's the alternative? In order to realise you're wrong, you have to have the knowledge and experience of what's right somewhere within you. Otherwise, to you, you'll just be falling short of the capricious mores of society. Pick-up could be seen as a growth experience that leads to real human relating. It did exactly that for Neil Strauss, who documented it in two consecutive books on the subject.

    You yourself had to try it to see it wasn't working, and the attempt gave you the breadth of experience to come to that conclusion.

    I do agree with your analysis, though, and it's helpful to read.

    That's all!
     
  3. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

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    The real enemy of the recovering porn addict is those fakeass tradcon chicks that are all over YouTube. No honey, you aren’t entitled to use some naive church boy as a safety net just because you weren’t satisfied with your college years
     
    Discerning_Dubearte likes this.
  4. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    Pick up artists be like: "This isn't going to work on everyone".
    Well why not?
    Oh right.
    Because not everyone is that naive.

    All you need to know about PUA really.
     
    Mr. Kruger likes this.
  5. Minsc

    Minsc Fapstronaut

    Haven't read the who post. When I looked more into how to date and whatnot a little over a decade ago the "pickup" stuff is what I came across. It never meshed with me at all. The biggest issue I see, as you mention, is everything is treated as a game. Basically the woman is only a trophy. Actually looking at and improving myself, this is what I find to be working.
     
  6. p1n1983

    p1n1983 Fapstronaut

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    Pick up artist is targeted to man that want a chance with a woman that is not interested in him. Basically they teach you a lot of ways to make a woman that is not interested in you initially to start to have some of it so you are able to set a date with them.

    Pick up artist only teach you how to do that, they don't teach you how attraction work, how to improve it, how to date and how to make a woman fall in love with you and keep in there.

    I only date woman that are initially interested in me, why? because if a woman is interested in you she is going to put the effort to know you, put the effort to keep the conversation going, put the effort to like you so dating a girl like this is going to be really easy and you are going to have a lot of fun with her.

    In the other hand, to date a girl that is no interested is going to be only a one sided effort from your part to keep the conversation going... and for me that is boring as f*k and don't worth the effort. Most of the times you are not going to get anywhere with her, waste energy, time and money for nothing.

    So my advice if you want to improve your dating skills is to go and search for online coach's that teach you how attraction works between man and woman. What kind of a man you have to be to naturally attract woman. How to date them and make them fall in love with you and can keep them in love with you. Don't waste your time with pick up artist.
     
  7. thinking_differently

    thinking_differently Fapstronaut

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  8. LycurgusTheLawgiver

    LycurgusTheLawgiver Fapstronaut

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    Wonder no more, for I shall happily tell you. I was inspired to write this piece by the plight of the thousands of young men who are currently wasting years of their precious lives following the tenets of a puerile pseudoscientific internet philosophy which will never lead them to a secure romantic relationship with a woman whom they love, and which actually denies this from them, a bizarre doctrine which prevents them from savouring the joy of authentic and spontaneous social interaction with the opposite sex, one of the birthrights of every man, and one which almost all of his ancestors will have enjoyed.

    I was inspired to write this piece by years of personal experience with pick up. I was inspired to write this piece when I first saw clearly the dark place to which this specious way of thinking can lead people. I wrote this piece in the hope that a few men might read it and perhaps question the claims which they are being fed as gospel truth, by people who have not examined these claims themselves, or who, if they have, and do see the truth, care more about the state of their wallet than about the lives of the desperate young men whom they are about to exploit. I wrote this post first for young men who are the first and principal victims of the toxic ‘pickup’ worldview, but also for the growing number of women who end up becoming the indirect or secondary victims of ‘pickup’.

    No one denies that assiduously practicing ‘pick up’ can indeed lead lonely, otherwise reclusive men to sexual encounters with real women, but this is a far cry from becoming an attractive person, and a far cry from a secure and authentic long term romantic relationship based upon honest love and close mutual understanding; such sexual encounters really, are simply the product of going out and talking to hundreds upon hundreds of women, some of whom also happen to be desperate, lonely, and naive enough to have sex with almost anyone. ‘Pickup’ can lead to sex; paying a whore can lead to sex; but clearly having sex and becoming personally attractive and thus worthy of someone’s genuine love and admiration, are not one and the same thing.
     
    thinking_differently likes this.
  9. This forum is so 'bluepilled' that even Pokimane simps might get jealous
     
    StarRider likes this.
  10. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

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    Remember when r/nofap wouldn’t stop linking laci green videos? I wish I didn’t.

    edit: nothing is more authentic than one night stands and you do have to become a more attractive person to get those. The only naive men here are the ones who spend years waiting for “god’s best” and get herpes instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  11. p1n1983

    p1n1983 Fapstronaut

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    Most of the woman are after high quality man, it doesn't matter they are not high quality woman. Good looking, good income or high status is what they want, average or below average man are not in their radar. A woman that is a 5 is looking for a 8... a woman that is a 3.. is looking for a 6. A woman that is a 10 is looking for a 15, woman are really delusional about the guys they can get so they don't even bother dating a 5.. if they are a 4 or a 5.
    So if you don't have any of those traits )basically you are a 7-10 range, no matter how much of "A man on a mission" you are or any kind of picking up technique you try, you are not going to get any attention from high or average girls. Maybe you get some of them to fool around but none of them are going to take you for something serious. Maybe you and I don't want to settle down but there are a lot of guys that do and average Joe's are having reeeeeally hard times finding a average girl to settle down because average girls don't even give them a chance.
     
  12. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

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    they wouldn’t want to settle down if they knew they had other options
     
  13. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    Lul
     
  14. What a great post. Thanks for clarifying this topic for those of us that are too busy with other stuff to think through all of that. I knew the “pickup” and “game” stuff was all rot and rubbish. And what a miserable existence, going through one sex based relationship after another, becoming more and more bitter, and never settling down with someone who loves and cares. Thank heavens I have enough personality to have a normal relationship with my wife and didn’t have to play “The Game” with her. Games are for little boys.
     
    LycurgusTheLawgiver likes this.
  15. It's all in our culture. Modern women are slaves to their nature. It has ruined dating. And papa government nails the last nail to the coffin with family courts and shit like that. Almost impossible for a man to have kids and marry nowadays. It is what it is.
     
  16. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

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    As far as I can tell the only slaves are men
     
  17. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    You know what they say. Better be an older woman's darling than a young woman's slave :p
     
  18. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

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    I never did well with older women for some reason. Only women close to my age
     
  19. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    Let's be honest: most young men are idiots. You can't blame them for doubting you are the one that is not :D I don't blame them.
     
  20. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

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    The beauty of life is that one can have any relationships he wants. So you do you and I do me.
    Edit: And yeah I am not going to comment on anything you said because it is just plain nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020

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