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Herbivore Men and Soy Boys

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by dignifiedrose, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. dignifiedrose

    dignifiedrose Fapstronaut

    I've been doing some research into Japan recently as part of a project in school. Something that I came across as interesting is the rise of the so called "Herbivore Men" in recent years, with tie ins to Japan's declining birth rate. From Wikipedia:

    Herbivore men[1] or grass-eater men[2] (草食(系)男子, Sōshoku(-kei) danshi) is a term used in Japan to describe men who have no interest in getting married or finding a girlfriend.[3][4] The term herbivore men was also a term that is described as young men who had lost their "manliness".​

    Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores.[12] Japan's government views the phenomenon as one possible cause of the nation's declining birth rate.
    As someone who has frequents online forms and streams, I noticed it pretty much matches the image of a "Soy Boy," so the cross-cultural connection is there. I was wondering what this community thinks about the phenomenon, and what could possibly be leading to this trend. Do you guys have any input on the subject?
     
  2. JoeinUSA

    JoeinUSA Fapstronaut

    Is declining birth rate really about vitamins, minerals, and nutrition? What about abortion, birth control, preferential options for male children, and the frowning upon more than one child in a family? It comes at a great cost, which is now visiting present and future generations.
     
  3. dignifiedrose

    dignifiedrose Fapstronaut

    I definitely agree that the accessibility of abortion, birth control, and cultural views on family contribute to birthrate. I just found it interesting that the Japanese Government views this as a factor that could contribute. I'm also curious as to whether this "issue" is a matter of visibility; has the population really changed, or is this just a fleeting, momentarily over represented observation.
     
  4. Caerulea

    Caerulea Fapstronaut

    I think that dietary choices and disinterest in being in a relationship are separate matters. A person can fit into both categories, but one doesn't necessarily lead to the other. I'm guessing that the prevalence of social media, tension/confusion stemming from changing expectations regarding gender roles, and easy access to free porn (among other things) have more of an impact on one's decision to stay single than one's dietary choice. (Not to mention that a meat-eater isn't necessarily going to have a healthier diet than an herbivore, and vice versa...)
     
    dignifiedrose likes this.
  5. JoeinUSA

    JoeinUSA Fapstronaut

    Hmmm...I am more suspicious still of government views, like covering up of their own social policies that caused the very problem and then restating the causes as something else altogether.
     
    SoaringEagle likes this.
  6. dignifiedrose

    dignifiedrose Fapstronaut

    Relating to this idea, I agree that the choice to stay single is likely not a result of dietary choice. The premise of the paper I'm writing is a critical review of Idol Culture in Japan, where women tend to be hyper-feminized and put on a pedestal, so to speak. I'm looking into gender roles in Japan as part of the paper, so I expect I'll be able to more confidently support your assessment as time goes on.
     
    Caerulea likes this.
  7. dignifiedrose

    dignifiedrose Fapstronaut

    I'm not an expert on Japanese politics by any means, so I'm not sure what social policies you are referring to. Has the government historically implemented policies controlling birthrates in the past? I know that countries like China and India have had to implement incentives and/or punishments to control their populations.
     
  8. Envoy-ofthe-End

    Envoy-ofthe-End Fapstronaut

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    It's funny how most of you just don't get it, maybe you're also a "herbivore" man.

    They call them herbivores because typically animals that dont eat meat are preyed upon and are generally weak and are an easy target. In other words those guys have been castrated and are society's modern day eunuchs, much like the west's incels (soy boys). These weak men are paving the path for ultimate tyranny.
     
  9. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    A really great documentary I once watched, was called Japan: A story of love and hate by Sean McAllister

    I think the main reason why a lot of Japanese are shunning marriage and responsibility is because of life stress. Everyone praises Japan for being the most advanced society, but what does this signify to a Japanese who has to work all day long only to get some sleep in a tiny apartment then wake up and do it again, with the only social activities being drinking with co-workers on the weekend which in itself is somewhat work as well. I know not everyone lives this slave like lifestyle but many do for the majority of their lives.

    Add to that high speed internet pornography and the social seclusion imposed by modern society and you get a perfect mix for not making families.
     
  10. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    As far as I know Japan never implemented government birthrate controls but on the other hand whether deliberately or not, they created conditions that must have caused this. They have known the numbers since a long time and it doesn't seem they gave it the proper attention.

    I haven't thought about it thoroughly but I think defeated and occupied societies tend to go through this, Today's Japan is of course an occupied country, no one will publicly say this, the Japanese are busy working themselves to death but these military bases all over the country which are paid for by the Japanese people are a clear indication not only of a vassal state but of an occupied subservient country.

    A lot can go into how this can happen and how the people became brainwashed and politicians obedient but to put it shortly, the occupation of the old days was replaced by control by proxy. But the result being that the Japanese politicians will not make it a priority to build a better nation, and that Japanese citizen will have to pay taxes and work more hours so that Japan can "contribute" for foreign aid for other vassal states on behalf of the Americans, same thing goes for south Korea and Germany.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
    Envoy-ofthe-End likes this.
  11. Yes
     
  12. Caerulea

    Caerulea Fapstronaut

    @Envoy-ofthe-End Ah, I see. I misinterpreted the original post, thanks for the clarification.

    I agree that this is probably the main reason for Japanese men.
     
  13. fredisthebes

    fredisthebes Fapstronaut

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    Veganism is really rare in Japan, so I'm not sure they are referring to the diet of these men in this case. It might contribute somewhat, as Japanese do eat a lot of Soy products, and a lot of their food is ('accidentally') vegan. A lot of fish and fish derivatives as well, though. A fair bit of meat. Very little dairy, especially when compared to a typical American diet. It's a healthy diet overall - keep them in shape. But I don't know about T levels....

    I get the impression that pornography and even prostitution are rather mainstream and uncontroversial in Japan.
     
    dignifiedrose likes this.
  14. James Duncan Halpert

    James Duncan Halpert Fapstronaut

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    I don't buy it, officials are clearly moving goal posts. There's only one reason birth rates decline, not having children right? This isn't a new problem and as the government stated before it was down to two things: one is how hard Japanese people work (in which they're exhausted and don't have a lot of time to themselves due to long stressful hours of work/studying) and the other is excessive porn use.

    It's no secret how big a problem porn addiction or just porn consumption in general is there, so to me I see I fail to see a correlation between a herbivore diet and declining birth rates, let alone them apparently being "soy boys" or losing their manliness due to what's being consumed. If anything I'd say the aggressive hormones used in fast food and the majority of men using porn are a serious problem, because a diet doesn't just make you "uninterested" in finding a partner, there's a much deeper issue going on.
     
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  15. Queek The HeadTakker

    Queek The HeadTakker Fapstronaut

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  16. dignifiedrose

    dignifiedrose Fapstronaut

    I don't think the the name "herbivore men" literally means they're herbivores. It seems more of a comparison of behavior; maybe these guys are seemingly too content with "grazing" instead of "hunting".
     
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  17. Belching_Booch

    Belching_Booch Fapstronaut

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    Honestly right now is PRIME time for in shape white men to go to Japan. I've been studying Japanese for a little under a year now, and am planning on visiting once my language and body is where I want them to be. Planning on having a hell of a good time.
     
  18. Red Eagle

    Red Eagle Fapstronaut

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    Herbivore man doesn't refer to a man's diet. It is a title given to somebody who doesn't have the "hunting instinct" to get a woman. The actual issue lies with other matters, like internet pornography, video games, a life focused on work and carreer, the expense of family and children etc..

    In the animal kingdom, being a herbivore and carnivore doesn't relate in anyway to sexual prowess. Sexual prowess in males of a species is usually linked more to a dominance hierarchy.

    Soy Boy is more of a political slur that was used to insult both left wingers and vegans as sub-males, which started due to soy containing phytoestrogens which, according to some, have a feminizing effect. When looking at the scientific data, one, however, finds this to be not true. Phytoestrogens don't have any feminizing effects on men and they might even prevent breast cancer in women. Also, soy is a staple food in some of the most populated nations on earth, so it clearly doesn't make men infirtile, as claimed by some critics.
     
  19. James Duncan Halpert

    James Duncan Halpert Fapstronaut

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    I also read a study done on Soy products. It was calculated for feminisation to occur in men they would have to drink or eat a ridiculous amount of soy produce each day, far beyond what normal people drink or afford.
     
    Red Eagle likes this.
  20. fredisthebes

    fredisthebes Fapstronaut

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    Americans drink gallons and gallons of milk, and substituting this with soya alternative might not be a great idea. But a splash of soy sauce on your noodles aren't gonna turn you into a ladyboy :p
     
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