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P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Fenix Rising, May 12, 2019.

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  1. Masked-Debater

    Masked-Debater Fapstronaut

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    It's totally true what you are saying. Flatline and anhedonia makes you impervious to product marketing because you can't be enticed by the social rewards they sell :) Every single ad I see on TV or Internet just reminds me that people are completely full of shit. We all are. It's our nature. When I'm healed from PAWS I will probably go back to being full of shit because that's how money is made. Not only do we fill other people full of shit, deep down we want to believe the shit we are being fed. That's why it's so successful and why it never stops.
     
    zander13 likes this.
  2. Masked-Debater

    Masked-Debater Fapstronaut

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    Few points.

    1) After the first paragraph I wasn't talking about you any more. It was meant more generally than you took it. My fault I guess.
    2) Without Internet porn, you would naturally accept your age group. It's normal to be attracted to people your own age. If you stay artificially attracted only to young people then you will forever be fantasizing and masturbating to what you cannot have.
    3) I did make points. I made points about the destructive effects of porn on the mind and society. Your only point was that you like young, unopinionated, and submissive women who prefer sucking over talking. The whole point of your post was to shame somebody.
    4) The chart asks what age "looks best" to the other sex. It says nothing about female intellect, fertility, shape of tits, or submissive disposition. That was all you.
    5) I didn't shame you because you are a PMO addict. Why would I do that?

    Look, I get the gist of your post. I just I just think it was the wrong response to Dave G's topic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  3. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    I feel the same about exercise and I read several times now that only really light exercise should be performed while being in PAWS. Unfortunately I love sports that bring my bpm up to 140-180. I used to jog so much in early recovery I only stopped because my feet hurt at some point. I even started to get back the runners high over the last few months but it’s not a good tradeoff for being more tired and exhausted for 3 days as I already am. I just need to jog slower and be more wise about my tempo but once I‘m running nothing can stop me from going nearly full speed as long as I can. I would love to jog today but I know where this is going. But it certainly feels good to have one activity that your brain feels drawn and motivated. I don’t have to push or force myself - it’s just a natural motivation which feels very good. I think part of exercise being no good idea is the fact that you’re brain can’t differentiate between exercise and you running away from something and so FoF might get triggered faster. Also heavy exercise requires a lot of physical recovery and a body full of cortisol and adrenaline certainly won’t recover that fast.

    You talked about stretching. It also makes me feel better and more connected with everything else. Maybe try the cat and cow stretch. Those are easy stretches and help a lot it lower back and pelvis muscles.
     
    Masked-Debater likes this.
  4. clapas

    clapas Fapstronaut

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    Wrong. Where do you get that from? Everyone (at least those with a minimum of ambition) pursues the best that they can get.
    That was simply not the topic we were discussing. Not a single point you do Masked-Debater. Again shaming if the only thing you do is implying that my opinion is influenced by my addiction.
    Sorry but I did not say that I prefer sucking over talking and I will not fight that straw man. The rest is correct, I (men) prefer unopinionated, submissive, feminine woman. That is a fact. Of course there can be exceptions; maybe you prefer a contentious, masculine woman that has you on a leash.

    You say I shamed this woman, that is not true. I just laughed at the comment that she is attractive and, when asked, reasoned why.

    I guess I cannot do anything for you to understand that choosing young females is in the nature of men. Anyway, I won't waste more useless efforts. Have a good one!
     
    Freeddom_Taker likes this.
  5. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    Yep, I have particular problems with stiffness in the hips, made worse by inactivity due to exhaustion.

    I find the whole idea of movement as a way of healing the brain pretty interesting, and (as and when I'm well enough) want to be much more physically active than I have been, because there just seem to be so many health benefits beyond this as well.
     
    Masked-Debater likes this.
  6. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    Ok, I didn't mean to start a shit-storm of "culture-wars" bullshit; I'd rather keep this thread on topic. I regularly watch her videos, and she does have a "fan-base" in the comments, so there are obviously quite a lot of people that think she's hot. I was trying to be considerate re triggers - I just wanted to give anyone that might be susceptible to that a heads-up, because, whether you can accept it or not, there are people who's sexual preferences run in all sorts of directions.
     
    Masked-Debater and clapas like this.
  7. I have a pretty serious question:

    I've been struggling lately, and tonight was very difficult. Every bad emotion was present, coupled with nausea, headaches, constipation, fucked up fight or flight. Anyways, it kept me up until now (5:30am), and for the last 3-4 hours I've been watching nothing but body cam footage of police shootings. Graphic violence. Is this anywhere near a relapse?

    This is the most shame I've felt since my last relapse, which was about 360 days ago. I'm fucking petrified that I did something I'll regret for the rest of my life. I'm feeling very, very vulnerable. I know it's not porn, but it's definitely a substitute, at least in the sense that I binged, and it was anxiety-inducing, dark, evil material.

    The last two weeks have been the toughest stretch of my reboot so far. I'm honestly astonished at how terribly a person can feel.

    I'll say it again: I'm terrified. If anyone can help clarify my issue I'd be forever grateful.
     
  8. Masked-Debater

    Masked-Debater Fapstronaut

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    OK zander so I'm gonna pipe in and offer a couple things that I've noticed about myself when things go south quickly. I don't know if I'm on point here or not but I've been in your situation many times over the years and I've come to realize that while there is no food or nutrition-based cure for PAWS, there are most definitely foods and nutrients that can make it MUCH worse. When ever I devolve into states of irrational fear and hyper-emotionality for no reason, I can now trace it back to something I ingested in the last 2-3 days. I have years of experience troubleshooting what does this to me and I'm going to share it with you and let you decide if there's anything useful in it for you.

    None of the substances that I'm about to list had any negative effect on me prior to withdrawal symptoms when I was normal functioning. I never restricted anything in my diet. There is nothing wrong with most of them and they are healthy when your brain and nervous system are functioning normally. But when your brain is already unstable from withdrawal, most psychoactive compounds and nutrients can further destabilized it. I'm not even going to list caffeine and alcohol because it's so obvious.

    1) Folates of all kinds. Folate is easily the most destabilizing nutrient I deal with. I learned this the hard way with Methylfolate supplements and it was further reinforced through trial and error on a complete elimination diet. I might get away with a little bit of natural folate, but if I keep eating folate-fortified foods day after day it accumulates and within a couple of days anxiety, hopelessness, and psychomotor agitation increases. I know it's chemical because I feel it in my sleep when I'm not in control of my thoughts. High dose Methylfolate supplements make me go totally batshit crazy. Full on DP/DR - OCD, panic, etc... All synthetic or excessive B vitamins have the capacity to make me feel much much worse. Avoid all B vitamin supplements, enriched foods, and high folate veggies if you want to see if this eases your symptoms. It takes about 2 full days before I feel any relief from this. Again, before PAWS, high dose B vitamins didn't bother or agitate me at all. I never would have guessed that they could affect me this way.

    2) Choline. Again, this was learned the hard way through high dose supplementation and through extensive testing on an elimination diet. There is an antagonistic relationship between dopamine and acetylcholine. Anything that raises acetylcholine activity beyond normal will create it's own symptoms as well as worsen any existing low dopamine misery. I believe that many of the negative mental and physical symptoms we have are related to excessive acetylcholine sensitivity in important brain structures. I think it's just part of whatever awful stuff is happening in the brain during PAWS. Regaining normal sensitivity in these systems may be a large part of what PAWS recovery actually is. But for now, they are unbalanced and unstable. Meat in general is where we get Choline from but even large meat-based meals don't bother me. I only have to avoid egg yolks, liver, and choline supplements. Again, I might get away with a little bit but it builds up. Within a few days or less my negative symptoms increase noticeably. Not as bad as folates, but still very bad.

    4) Pesticides, for the same reason as Choline. Most agricultural pesticides are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. This is the drug class for many of the Cold War neurotoxins. They act by decreasing the body's ability to break down acetylcholine, resulting in higher levels in the brain and nervous system. The normal pesticide residues found in store bought fruits and veggies won't normally be detectable to normal people. In the past I've never been able to detect a problem by eating non-organic produce, but for now I'm hyper-sensitive. When I am on an elimination diet I can reliably reproduce it.

    5) Dairy. This might not be a problem for you. I don't think it's bad for everyone. I love dairy and never avoided it but have come to learn that it was always responsible for many of my gastrointestinal issues throughout my life. When I don't have dairy, I don't have gastritis and GERD. Whenever I get tempted and cheat, it always proves itself to be a problem.

    6) Additives and fillers. There are too many to mention. I am not a health nut and I've never really cared about food additives. I have isolated a few that tear up my gut and provoke symptoms but I won't add them here because it doesn't matter. The main things is that when your gut is torn up and inflamed, you can't feel at ease. Any non-food chemical can be unknowingly irritating your brain. Avoiding nasty food additives can help you feel better by making you feel less like shit.

    Those are the main things that I've discovered that are worth sharing. Avoiding these things is the most honestly helpful thing I have in my PAWS mitigating arsenal. I've been sick for so long that I've literally tried just about every diet and dietary supplement out there in search for anything that made life more bearable. The vast majority of that time I had no idea why I was so sick, I actually though I was searching for a cure to a mystery illness that no one could diagnose. Haha. But with all of the myriad of dead-ends the internet has to offer, the one thing that was the most useful and insightful was going on the Carnivore Diet. By removing everything but meat, fish, and water from my diet, I was able to eliminate everything that was contributing to the emotional rollercoaster I was always on. Without eliminating everything and then testing one thing at a time, it's impossible to figure out if certain foods or even single ingredients in your diet are provoking your symptoms.

    As long as I keep my diet close to 100% carnivore, I remain predictably bad from day to day with PAWS symptoms, if that makes sense. I don't have the unprovoked freak-outs that I used to have, even though I'm still hyper-sensitive to acute stress. I know it goes against everything we've ever been taught about nutrition and health but I don't care, it really helps. I don't care about any diet ideology, just results. I do drink decaf coffee with coconut milk so I'm not totally carnivore anymore. Periodically, I give in and eat emotionally (pizza, cookies, etc..) and it only last a few days. My symptoms get worse, GERD comes back, the ears start ringing louder, thinking gets foggier, coma-like lethargy, melt down, and end up back on the diet waiting for it to calm down again. The good news is that I've lost 50 pounds doing this :). The diet is basically zero carb.

    Anyhow zander, I hope there is at least something in here that gives you some ideas. I don't advocate or promote a specific diet because everyone is different and diets won't cure the hypofrontal symptoms of PAWS. The internet is full of diet promoters and that's not what I'm trying to do here. I'm just sharing what helps me because you're going through a hard time. I hope you're feeling better since this morning. Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
    zander13, DerJogge and Dave G 123 like this.
  9. Big Lebowski

    Big Lebowski Fapstronaut

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    The only symptoms I have now is apathy (anhedonia) & no libido. My sleep has improved ten fold since exercising everyday. On top of PMO Stress, I have undiagnosed depression and anxiety issues for half of my life that I have been working on. I think the latter two are the last piece of the puzzle. But again its a gradual recovery from anxiety and depression, exercising and challenging/changing negative chatter or thoughts, diet and sleep and self love/self acceptance, adopting a David Goggins like mindset is getting me out this shithole for good. Back on the no Porn and masturbation, just because its that little bit of stress I don't need!
     
    Don Quixote, clapas and Ezpz like this.
  10. Ezpz

    Ezpz Fapstronaut

    100% agree with this. I can't tell you how many times i got stuck in the mindset of 'did this set me back more recovery time?'. It is natural when we are in pain to want that pain to end as soon as possible and it can be anxiety inducing to think we have extended the recovery time period. At the end of the day there is no way of knowing what impact anything has on recovery so it is best to try to push on.
     
  11. SelfControlIsTheGoal

    SelfControlIsTheGoal Fapstronaut

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    I feel like once you have a 100+ day streak and still feel like that, its probably due to other factors of your life.
     
  12. Ezpz

    Ezpz Fapstronaut

    An update from me if anyone is interested.

    I am roughly 15 months in now and i seem to still be improving month to month. My good periods are now lasting longer and each good period i have is getting better. My flatline days however can be just as shitty as they always were, but now they last nowhere near as long. My last flatline period lasted about a week, which came with all the associated symptoms. Fatigue (i slept crazy amounts during this time period and was still constantly tired), depression, anhedonia, huge social anxiety etc. My flatline period ended and my morning wood has come back strong every morning so far, this was about 10 days ago that my good period started. I felt way more positive and calm and in the mornings im actually waking up and wanting to get out of bed.

    I generally have a period during the day where those flatline symptoms return for a few hours, usually around lunch time and then they disappear again at night time. I am starting to regain my emotions and i can feel my anhedonia lifting. Even during my worst periods now i am ok because i know for certain that i will feel even better when they end.

    I would also like to note that i am doing nothing to help these improvements along, like i use to. I am doing minimal exercise, im probably playing too much video games and my diet could be better yet i am still seeing results. It seems regardless of what i do recovery is still the same. In all honesty i could probably be feeling even better if i was doing the right things as well. Symptoms seem to be fading as time goes by so that is really all i care about.

    Im not really on here that much anymore but i do the occasional check to up see what I've missed. Its nice to see people are still going.
     
  13. Ezpz

    Ezpz Fapstronaut

    100+ streak is only the beginning. 3 to 24 months is within the normal recovery time for a PMO addict, though most people can feel significantly better after 3 months. It can be easy to think that because you are feeling better after 3 months, then others should to and if you haven't gone 3 months then you shouldn't even be commenting.

    Most people on this thread have been here for a long time and they understand themselves. This thread is probably not for you.
     
  14. What he says is true. There are knee jerk reactions to a page of a thread, and then there are hours and hours spent hanging on every word of posts made by someone who has made it further down a road that they can both, without question, call 'unbelievably treacherous'.
     
    clapas likes this.
  15. Glad to hear that things are going well. You're helping me out immensely--just by succeeding and reporting your experiences.
     
    Masked-Debater likes this.
  16. Sorry for taking up so much thread space folks. I just want to thank Don for his words because they helped me out and talked me off of a metaphorical ledge.
     
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  17. Masked-Debater

    Masked-Debater Fapstronaut

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    How long did it take you to have any good days at all? Did you notice a point where attention span and ability to make decisions became easier?
     
  18. tigate

    tigate Fapstronaut

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  19. Masked-Debater

    Masked-Debater Fapstronaut

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    All pathological behaviors are normal behaviors executed in a way that is abnormal. Porn addiction, and the resulting withdrawal syndrome, isn't any less real than bulimia or obesity. Even though feeding is perfectly normal, it's the end product of pathological behavior and it's not perfectly normal. Pornography does not exist in nature. It is not completely normal.

    Using sexual images and movies like a drug is not completely normal.
    Teenagers developing impotence is not completely normal.
    Witnessing extreme content like gangbangs, giant insertions, and anal gaping is not completely normal.
    Exposing an entire generation of children to fetish porn and telling them it's normal, is not completely normal.
    Masturbating for 6 hours at a time is not completely normal.
    The list goes on and on....

    Your comment reads like this to me: "I can get drunk everyday but I'm not addicted so alcoholism isn't real. Take a deep breath and relax guys. Just have a couple shots, stop being so uptight, and chill out for goodness sake. A few drinks will diminish your stress and depression. When I get trashed I feel great because I don't feel ashamed afterwards."

    Your nofap membership started today so I'm guessing that you are either trolling us, are unfamiliar with the 1000s of stories of people whos lives have been devastated by porn, or most likely, you benefit from the porn industry and are trying to clutter the board with pro-porn propaganda.

    BTW... If you feel guilt and shame about something, why would you keep doing it? The only obvious answer is because you can't stop. Removing all shame behind a negative behavior simply gives you an open-ended green light to indulge in it. Shame is good and is there for a reason. I had no religious guilt or shame whatsoever. In hindsight, I wish I had been too scared or ashamed to abuse porn. Instead I acted with impunity and here I am.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2020
    Kningb, TheRetainer and Dave G 123 like this.
  20. purplebat14

    purplebat14 Fapstronaut

    I think there are some very important pints you forget. Your age makes a very big difference. If a 20 year old is on a 90 days streak it's certainly not comparable to a 90 day streak of a 40 year old. I would guess the recovery progress also is affected by the time and the dimension of your porn consuption.
    psychosomatic symptoms
    If you expect symptoms, they will occur.
    It would also be very interesting to know how big the percentage is where this occurs.
    I have heard and read a lot of stories where this has not happened. You should also consider if you have depression or other problems in your life and maybe see a psychotherapist.
     

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